shadowblade 5spec end spec/respec help!

[ulukin]

first off id like to say I feel I gimped my shadowblade in my haste to spec and go RvR. current spec:

Stealth - 36
Env - 33
CS - 34
LA - 39
Axe - 36 (this is were I think I went wrong)

using crafted weapons means that with RR bonuses I have an axe skill of 38.

My vision for my shadowblade was to be able to do nice damage from stealthed (PA) but also be able to hold my own if jumped currently I manage ok with damage from PA but if jumped im history.


Possable respec:

Stealth - 35
Env - 30
CS - 34
LA - 39
Axe - 39

or

Stealth - 35
Env - 20
CS - 34
LA - 40
Axe - 44

So could anyone with experience of playng a 5spec please give me a little imput on the various pro's and con's, if you feel like posting your spec/respec and how you feel it plays etc all would be of great help since I really dont want to use my 1 and only respec to regimp myself

Thx in advance.

(oh yeah and no "go roll an infil" posts please)

Edit : Dont plan on being RR10 anytime soon so no dream posts either please

 

[Brevis]

Well being a n00b sb at lvl 24 currently I have a final template like this:
Stealth 36
Envenom 20
Crit 34
LA 44
Axe 39

Dunno if this is good, but im going to try it out

but I also like this specc
Stealth 1
Envenom 1
Crit 1
LA 1
Axe 1

It has so much potential

 

[old.Emma]

generally most 5 specs have 39 LA/34 CS.. stealth can be anything from 34-37 depending on which rr you see yourself getting.. Envenom can be from 29-34 and Axe varies from 34 to 39..

im currently specced.

36 stealth
29 envenom
34 cs
39 la
39 axe

and can hold my own againts most infils/ns that arent uber buffed :/ then its 50/50

planning on going

35 stealth (possibly 34 if i hit rr5 soon)
36 envenom
10 cs (for bs2)
44 LA
43 Axe (42 if i dont get rr5 by respec time)

im sick of missing PA all the time and prefer to just go for pure melee instead and against other stealthers you rarely get PA off anyway

only problem with 5-spec is due to the low weapon skill you often get huge dmg variance when using crafted weapons i get anything from 180 dmg to 250 dmg sometimes ofcourse once spell crafting arrives 5-spec will be very nasty

 

[zapzap]

34 stealth
44 axe
44 L axe
34 Cs
Rest in envenom all depending auto trian or not how much u get.
13 or 18 i think it is u can get, whith rr + items still a ok snare.
So many blades out there allmost never get to dot any1
Purge revmoves the effects of env and maybe not next patch but soon the resist to envenom will be higher.

Going the way Emma is saying is a nice option but is BS2 worth it ?
Why not just BS1 ( less end cost )
Why BS2 longer stun but do u care just want to breake BT with the BS, Bs1 then snowsquall >>> Icy Brilliance or hope for comeback and FG.

 

[old.Emma]

reason for BS2 is BS2 dmg scales with lvl.. BS1 doesnt.. and the stun is slightly longer only 1 second but thats 3 seconds total enough time to get snowsqual in without them turning..

 

[zapzap]

1 sec more 3 total so u need a swing time under 3 sec to make use of it.

 

[Solid]

I wont be burning a respec till Spellcrafting is in and I can really figure out how I wanan spec.

I can see so many people "wasting" their respec in haste and makign a bad decision.

5 Specs will be THE class to benefit MOST from Spellcrafting, they have the potential to get 50 in every single line with RR4/5

With redundancy over 50 for Stealth and Envenom its wise to wait until a high Realm Rank and planned +11 Envenom/Stealth in spellcrafting to respec and lower those Stealth/Env skills.

As a basic rule of thumb I would not spec over 35 in Env or Stealth as a new SB because RR5 and +11 Items at 50 will get you that +15.

Also I would definately level up as a Shadowzerker and skip Stealth and CS altogether until the very late levels.

Question currently is how likely are you to get your hands on a Axe of Balefire or Ensorcelled Blade of Power? both offer +4 in the respective Weapon skill. Also there is the possibility of using a WoW 1H Axe for +5 Axe, its 30% Bonus and 93% Qyuality and for a SB I would say its quite usable instead of Arcanium Weapons until you can get your hands on a Legion/Dragon drop

Here is how I would Level from scratch now:

Left Axe 44 (+11 Items and RR5 = 59 LA)
Axe 39 (+11 items and RR5 = 54 Axe)
Stealth 36 (+11 Items and RR5 = 51 Stealth)
Envenom 36 (+11 Items and RR5 = 51 Env)
CS 21 (+11 Items and RR5 = 36 CS)

Thats with Autotrain Stealth until 48

Note I have stated Best Case Scenario and the +Item setup is impossible until Spellcrafting but as we know it IS coming I would rather build my SB in anticipation for it.

I will most probably end up as below on my current SB (he is 47.5 atm)

LA 39
Axe 39
CS 34
Stealth 36
Env 30

Shame I cannot respec to the above at a later date as I didnt autotrain enuff

 

[ulukin]

Hmm, thanks for your replies guys.

Thing thats bugging me atm is the spec I have now could be perfectly ok by the time spellcrafting comes along,but atm as emma stated the dmg variance is awful.

So my problem is do I respec soon or wait for 1.53 and then a further 3+ weeks (for someone to be of high enough skill to make what I need).

Back to the drawing board I think

EDIT: also iirc solid when/if you respec you will lose any points you auto trained anyway

 

[old.Hellskor]

afaik you don't loose those auto-trained points, you just can't redistribute them.
So if you Autotrain Stealth 'til 48 and go full respecc it -should- read

Sword 1
Axe 1
Stealth 12
Critical Strike 1
Envenom 1

not sure though, but 'loosing' those points woud seriously suck

 

[thorungla]

Unfortuantely, autotrained points are effectively lost if u respec that line.

The autotrainable line will be dropped to its 'minimum' when you respec. and will now have cost you points from your original spec point pool instead of having been free. This is taken from Sanya at Mythic in her friday grab bags and VN boards posts.

This was done because auto train was meant to prevent ppl gimping their spec, not to provide classes with extra points.

So if your a SB that autotrained stealth all the way to level 48, be prepared to lose those 77 extra spec points if you choose to use your respec.

Worst of all, if you are a warrior, be prepared to be 231 points worse off, assuming your level 50 and respeccing as you are now being forced to 'pay' for the useless auto training of the 2 weapons you do not use

 

[erl]

Auto trained points are _not_ losed. What they do is they lower all your speclines to the minimum (1 for all lines except auto trained ones) and gives you the spec points you spent in the line (or was put there by auto training).

From Herald:

If you have a current character in Dark Age of Camelot, you may elect to do a full respec. This resets ALL of your character's specializations to zero (or that spec's minimum allowed for your class), and gives you the equivalent number of spec points back to you so you can retrain however you see fit. Please note that respeccing is a one-time thing, and is irrevocable. You cannot do a full respec again, so be sure you know how you want to spec your character before you do this.

So if you auto train, points are "magically" put into a spec line, and you get them back when you respec.

It's a bit annoying when people post here with very unaccurate information

 

[ulukin]

hehe thanks for that that made it as clear as well.... um mud

maybe im thick or so

but do's that mean :

A: upon respec I will benifit from autotrained points to 50
B: all auto trained points will be lost
or c: I will retain the points I autotrained and lose nothing

Dont forget you still have all three lifelines and can still take the money and run

Was under the impression that you lose the points, and have heard many warriors complaining about just the point thorungla made.

Please someone explain

 

[Solid]

Ulukin u get option 3 mate.

 

[ulukin]

Originally posted by Solid
Ulukin u get option 3 mate.

Hmmm now im confused .... A B OR C ... option 3 .....

Hehe Thx m8

 

[thorungla]

Ok, In response to Erl and my supposedly incorrect information regarding respec and autotraining. Here are the links and a copy and paste of sanyas information. If your read a little more than just the vague patch notes, there is a lot of additional information available out there.

Please read this for yourselves and respec at your own risk.

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/437.php

-start of quote:
Q: I am confused about how the full respec will work with autotraining. Can you clarify?

A: Let’s start with some background. Autotraining is a feature of the game for some classes, but not all of them. One class that has autotrain is the paladin – they have slash and chants as skills that autotrain up (extremely slowly) IF they do not choose to train those skills of their own accord. If a paladin never puts a single point into slash, by the time he is level 30, he will have a spec of 7 in slash. If he gets to 50 without ever training in slash, he will have autotrained up to 12. This feature went into the game a long time ago, and was intended to prevent a player from entirely gimping himself.

When we first introduced autotrain, the game would use your spec points FOR you, to make sure you never fell below a certain level. The public outcry was great, and to cut to the chase, we fixed autotrain so that it did not take your points. Instead, if autotrain kicks in, it creates the points and adds them to your total.

The free points thing sounds like a much bigger deal than it actually is. For instance, going back to our paladin example, a pally has two lines with the autotrain option – chants and slash. I do not think there is a single paladin that would try and level without putting any points at all into chants.

Now, on to the respec thing. When you activate your respec, the game will check your character to see if you have any autotrain lines that have a minimum attached to them. If our paladin is level 50, the game will automatically assign points to the autotrain lines until they are both at 12, before our paladin does anything else. (The game calculates what the minimum level should be depending on your level.)

Why? Well, if a player autotrained, the points he had were “free” – and to prevent abuse of the system, those free points must be assigned to the line from which they came. However, code is an if/then, either/or kind of thing, and the game cannot tell if the training you did at level whatever was the result of an autotrain or a choice on your part. So the points are automatically deducted.

A player who autotrained, and accepted the fact that he was going to be gimped just to get that handful of extra points, has more points total than a player who did not autotrain. It’s a severe tradeoff for very little reward, but the reward does exist.

This is why some people on the test server have a few more points than others of the same class.

I know there’s some objection to minimum spec levels post-respec in the community right now, and I have passed on your feedback thus far and will continue to do so. It is still on the test server, after all! But hear me out: The reason we’ve done it this way is because we had a choice between this way, and basically throwing all the points into the pool without taking autotrain into account at all. Had we chosen the latter option, classes with more than one autotrain line (some classes have three), you would have seen a situation where some classes had significantly more points than others, and used their “free” points to bring one spec to full, and still have enough points left over to bring other lines to powerful levels. This struck us as bad. So, we put in the restriction. Since it’s a sure bet that at least one of the lines the points automatically go to is one that the player will want to pour points into, the number of points the player isn’t controlling is very small.
-end of quote

I have also sent a right now request to GOA, asking them to clearly clarify this very question, since the patch notes in no way makes it clear. Again, respec very carefully.

 

[Solid]

Hehe I remember reading that post, cleared things up for me

So in response to the guy thinking warriors get jipped, they dont. Level 50 Warrior :

They calculate the value of points you have based on your specs at time of respec. So a warrior with 50 Hammer, 50 Shield, 28 Parry, 12 Axe, 12 Sword gets all those points to a points pool when he respecs, then the code reapplies the 12 to Axe and Sword AND to hammer as it was and the warrior is left with the points he gets from the Hammer/Shield/Parry line.

If he autotrained Hammer he would get those points in his pool.

Net result is you get out of respec what you put in. If you autotrained stealth to 48 you still have those free 77 points to play with.

 

[thorungla]

Actually, even if I reread sanya's explanation a couple times on its own. It can still be taken in 2 ways regarding autotrained 'free' spec points.

However if you take it in conjunction with the vn boards comments on it, and the US players experiences of respec. Then you will also believe that the free points you gained from auto training will be lost if you respec that particular line (or perform a full respec).

As I always say, never believe anything until you prove it yourself, and since I cannot test respec on gorre before patching since I am a Pryd player. I can only go on what I read from as many sources as possible. So for me, I have no intention of using respec until I am convinced, or GOA release a non-ambiguos comment on the subject. I suggest you do the same, although mythic did grant a few ppl additonal repsec's I seriously doubt GOA will, since their cutomer service is even sparser.

Respec at your own risk

 

[erl]

I'll try to clarify everything. You will not loose your points you gain from auto training. The quote Thorungla posted was the one I was looking for but couldn't find it, sorry for quoting vague information. But what sanya says in these lines proves it too:

A player who autotrained, and accepted the fact that he was going to be gimped just to get that handful of extra points, has more points total than a player who did not autotrain. It’s a severe tradeoff for very little reward, but the reward does exist.

This is why some people on the test server have a few more points than others of the same class.

and listen to this:

When we first introduced autotrain, the game would use your spec points FOR you, to make sure you never fell below a certain level. The public outcry was great, and to cut to the chase, we fixed autotrain so that it did not take your points. Instead, if autotrain kicks in, it creates the points and adds them to your total.

So, she says that the reward exists and that people respecing on the test server got different amounts of points depending on how much auto training they did. She also says that the points you get when autotraining is created. What you suggested first was what they implemented first but changed, as mentioned in the above quote.

For Ulukin: your opting 'c' is what will happen when you respec.

I will try to give an example (though I suck at examples).
You're level 50 and have autotrained stealth to level 24, that is at level 24 your stealth is at level 6 and you haven't spent any of your earned points into it. This is gaining you a total of 20 spec points, since you didn't have to waste your own points.

Then you go on speccing as usual and hit 50 with, say, 35 stealth specced as usual. When you then type /respec all we can say that the game decreases all your lines by one level at a time and giving you those spec points. So from the stealth line you get 35 + 34 + ... + 2 spec points. After that the stealth line is trained to the minimum level using the spec points gained from the decreasing of the spec lines. The minimum is spec level 12, so a total of 12 + ... + 2 spec points is spent there.

No where in this progress any spec points are lost. Those you gained "for free" when autotraining stays in your pool of spec points when respeccing.

I hope this makes it all a bit clearer.
I tried at least

edit: here's a link to a small thread on vnboards with at least 3 people who have respecced themselves and kept their points: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=39151126&replies=8

 

[thorungla]

Erl, those 2 quotes you first refer to are Sanya talking about autotraining from the beginning not about autotraining and respec atm.

The main point of commentary about auto and respec is:

"Well, if a player autotrained, the points he had were “free” – and to prevent abuse of the system, those free points must be assigned to the line from which they came. However, code is an if/then, either/or kind of thing, and the game cannot tell if the training you did at level whatever was the result of an autotrain or a choice on your part. So the points are automatically deducted."

As for the assumptions as to how respec calculates your spec point pool, there has been no reference or explanation of this.
This is why I am still sceptical that autotrained points will be retained after respec.

I'll go and read the posts you linked to from other ppl now

Its good to actually be having a discussion on this forum for once and not just a flame war, I'm right your wrong kind of thing that it usually degrades into. Respect

 

[Forbitzzzzz]

Well found this post and thought what with ppl thinking of waiting for spellcrafting etc it might be useful to you as to make the most of ur speccing:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spellcrafting Limits
By Lok


The aim of this discussion is to derive a few relations that come out of the spellcrafting equations, and then apply those

relations to determine some fundamental limits.

First off, the capacity of an item, C, is

(1) C = roundown((2*m1+m2+m3+m4)/2)

Where m1, m2, m3, and m4 are the point equivalents of the abilities on the 4 slots. Note that

(2) m1 >= m2, m3, m4...m1 is the largest ability.

You calculate the point equivalent by,

(3) m = f*p

where the factor f

Table 1: Factors for points
---------------------------
f, ability/skill/attribute
5, skills
2, power, resists
1, attributes
1/4, hp

They have a 'first point is free' rule for things like skills, where

(4) m = f*(p-1)

So for example to make +3 envenom, you only need

m = 5*(3-1) = 10 points, since the +3 skill (p=3), and the factor is 5 for skills

Define the items total points as

(5) mt = m1 + m2 + m3 + m4

And you can tell by inspection of (1) that when mt= odd number, you get that point for free off of rounddown.

Using (5) and (1) you can show

(6) C = rounddown ((mt+m1)/2)

And for illustrative purposes, ignore rounddown, and solve for mt

(7) mt = 2*C - m1

Now an items capacity, C, is a constant, and a function of material level and item quality. Here is the specific form,

(8) C = k(Q)*L

The capacity factor, k(Q) is a factor that comes from a lookup table based on quality, Q, and L is the material level. Here

are those factors, with the capacity for the top end material level 51 (C(51))

Table 2: Capacity factors and Material level 51 Factors
------------------------------------------------------
Q, k(Q), C(51)

94, 0.2, 10
95, 0.28, 15
96, 0.34, 18
97, 0.4, 21
98, 0.46, 24
99, 0.53, 28
100, 0.61, 32

So a 99 quality lvl 46 item will have from (8) C = 0.53*46= 24, and the lvl 51 material capacity is 28 for a 99% quality item

from the lookup value.

Note also the material levels are not listed, but ranges for them are printed at the calculator on the herald,

Table 3: Material level ranges
-----------------------------
Level 1-5 Bronze, Copper, Rawhide, Rowan, Woolen, Leaf
Level 6-10 Iron, Ferrite, Tanned, Elm, Linen, Bone
Level 11-15 Steel, Quartz, Cured, Oak, Brocade, Vine
Level 16-20 Alloy, Dolomite, Hard, Ironwood, Silk, Shell
Level 21-25 Fine Alloy, Cobalt, Rigid, Heartwood, Gossamer, Fossil
Level 26-30 Mithril, Carbide, Embossed, Runewood, Sylvan, Amber
Level 31-35 Adamantium, Sapphire, Imbued, Stonewood, Seamist, Coral
Level 36-40 Asterite, Diamond, Runed, Ebonwood, Nightshade, Chitin
Level 41-45 Netherium, Netherite, Eldritch, Drywood, Wyvernskin, Fossilized
Level 46-51 Arcanium, Arcanite, Tempered, Duskwood, Silksteel, Crystallized

So if you return to expression (7), you can see that in order to maximize capacity, you want to minimize m1. The lowest value

m1 can be is tied for max with either m2, m3, or m4. So let it be m2, and we see that m1=m2=m, and

mt = 2c - m = m + m + m2 + m3 = 2m + m2 + m3

Again to maximize mt, you see you want m2 and m3 as large as possible. THe largest value either can be is equal to m1, so you

can find that

(9) mt = max, when m1=m2=m3=m4= m, and mt = 4m

This is a pretty important finding. You can get the most points into an item by having the point values of each gem the same.

In this limit the capacity simplifies to

(10) C = rounddown(5*m/2) ; or you can solve for m = 2*C/5 up to the rounding factor

Now spellcrafting then has upper limits to the capacity, such as the lvl 51 material at 100% quality. YOu can attempt to

overload at C = C + 5. So the largest capacity you can spellcraft without overload will ever be 32 pts. If you overload, you

can go up to capacity 37. But how easy is it to overload?

Well lets establish the success rate for overload, S

(11) S = O(C) + (SCL-500)/10 + I(Q) + G

where O(C) is the overcharge penalty as a function of how far you overcharged the capacity

Table 4: Overcharge Penalty
---------------------------
C, O(C)
+1, -10
+2, -20
+3, -30
+4, -50
+5, -70

So if you try to overcharge by the maximum amount (+5), you would have a -70% chance to succeed.

All hope is not lost with these negative numbers. The first factor that matters is your spellcrafting level, SCL. The second

term in (11) is essentially that. For instance if you had 1000 spellcrafting, you would have a bonus to overcharging of +50%.

Item quality has an overcharge bonus, I(Q). Also the quality of the gems matter a great deal, and you can get a gem quality

bonus to overcharging, G

(12) G = G1(Q) + G2(Q) + G3(Q) + G4(Q)

where these values are found in the following table

Table 5: Item quality and Gem Quality Bonuses for Overcharge
------------------------------------------------------------
Q, I(Q), G(Q)

94-95, 0, 0
96, +6, +1
97, +8, +3
98, +10, +5
99, +18, +8
100, +26, +11

So lets say you have a 1000 spellcrafter (SCL=1000) overcharging a lvl 51, 100% quality item to achieve a capacity of 37, the

max. He uses 4, 100% quality gems. His chance of success is

S = -70% + 50% + 26% + 4*11% = 50%. So a smart spellcrafter will save his 100% quality gems for overcharge comissions. Note

that spellcrafters make their own gems from reagents.

So we have derived 2 important limits- the maximum capacity in the game for a spellcrafter is C=37, and the way you get the

most points into it is by having m1=m2=m3=m4=m. So what is m in this limit?

From (10), m = 2*37/5 = 14.8 = 15. And the most points you can get on any spellcrafted item is mt = 4*m= 60. The problem is

that gems come in specific amounts as a function of grade,


Table 6: Gem value as a function of grade
-----------------------------------------
Gem Type, Raw Uncut Rough Flawed Imperfect Polished Faceted Precious Flawless Perfect
Essence (Stats), +1 +3 +5 +7 +9 +11 +13 +15 +17 +19
Shielding (Resists),+1 +2 +3 +5 +7 +9 +11 +13 +15 +17
Focus, 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50
Battle (Skills), +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +10
War (Skills), +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +10
Fervor (Skills), +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +10
Evocation (Skills), +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +10
Primal (Skills), +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +10
Chaos (Skills), +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +10
Nature (Skills), +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +10
Arcane (Skills), +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +10
Blood (HP), +4 +12 +20 +28 +36 +44 +52 +60 +68 +76
Mystic (Power), +1 +2 +3 +5 +7 +9 +11 +13 +15 +17

But if we express these in terms of points for m values, you get

Table 7: Point equivalents of the gems, m
-----------------------------------------
Gem Type, Raw, Uncut, Rough, Flawed, Imperfect, Polished, Faceted, Precious, Flawless, Perfect
Essence (Stats), 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19
Shielding (Resists) 2, 4, 6, 10, 14, 18, 22, 26, 30, 34
Focus 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
Battle (Skills) 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50
War (Skills) 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50
Fervor (Skills) 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50
Evocation (Skills) 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50
Primal (Skills) 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50
Chaos (Skills) 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50
Nature (Skills) 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50
Arcane (Skills) 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50
Blood (HP) 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19
Mystic (Power) 2, 4, 6, 10, 14, 18, 22, 26, 30, 34


So in the ideal situation where m =15, you can put in +15 stats (precious), +7% resistance (imperfect), any focus value, +4

skills (includes free +1, rough gem), +60 hp (precious), and +7 power (imperfect). Note that resists power do not come out

right since they are even numbers and 15 is odd.

Now lets get into some other fundamental limits- your number of slots.

You have 6 armor slots: torso, arms, legs, boots, gloves, head
You have 7 jewelry slots: 2 rings, 2 bracers, cloak, jewel, necklace
You have up to 2 weapon slots: 2 weapons, or weapon + shield

So the most items you can equip are 15.

If all of these were the overcharged, lvl 51 items at the very limit of capacity, you have the point equivalent from items of:

 

[Forbitzzzzz]

Maximum points from spellcrafted items = 15*60 = 900. Hitting that maximum is another story. I was asking around on alliance

chat the other day what a 100% quality arcanium weapon cost- how many rolls did it take. The answer I got was 40 rolls, or

around 4.3 platinum. Call it 4 plat. Now if you do manage to find a spellcrafter who has 1000 skill and 60, 100% quality gems

of exactly the kind you need, he would have a 50% success rate to overload that item, and on average you are now looking at

8plat per item. But since we don't know the material cost in producing a 100% quality gem, we can't be certain. The good news

is that for the m=15 limit, we are not talking the highest tier gems and the ability to produce these gems probably tracks

tradeskill, and lower tier gems are probably easier to get higher quality gems. But I would say probably 1plat for 4 gems of

the exact 100% type you need would be a good guess, and with the failure rate, you are looking at 10 plat per item, over 15

items or 150 platinum to completely outfit your character in the best of the best.

Now to get a handle on that kind of gold, my 50th eld used to solo curms for gold in collorary- you would get maybe 3 gold a

pull, 1 pull a minute (includes downtime). This is 180g per hour, 10.8 platinum per 24hr day, so you would need 15 days of

non stop farming just for gold of these curms to get the warchest you need. Most people have characters at lvl 50 who are

between 20 and 40 days old, so 15 days post 50 of just farming gold is probably a bit excessive.

Now your characters caps for items are

Table 8: Item caps for bonuses
------------------------------
+1.5x lvl for stats, +75 @ 50
+L/2+1 for resists or power, +26 @ 50
+L/5+1 for skills, +11 @ 50
+L*4 for hp, +200 @ 50

So say you wish to make the ultimate fighter type. You want to max dex, str, con, and qui, or have +75*4 = 300 points there.
To this you of course want max=26% thrust, crush, and slash resistance, or 26*2*3 = 156 pts for physical resists
Then of course you want to max=26% your resist to heat, cold, body, matter, body, spirit, and energy = 7*26*2 = 364 points
there.
And to finish you want +200hp, = +50 points there.

Adding it up before you begin your plans of skills, that is 870 points. This leaves you with 900-870= 30 pts for skills. I

don't even know if you could make that owing to the fact that gems come in discrete amounts and sometimes those amounts are

not ideal. But if you assume that you could squeeze another 30 out, for skills that would be +8 skills from 2 gems. And this

is for the 150 platinum madman. Skills are funny in that you can have no more than 1 +skills gem for one particular skill on

an item, so to get something like +11 sword, you need to spread that across 3 items -or- put less than the ideal number of

points into an item. So you cant have it all with spellcrafting...the cap is set such that you must make some tradeoffs on

what you give up.

The good news is items with capacity greater than 37 drop. Lets consider for instance the shadowblade epic armor,

- Epic: SHADOWBLADE EPIC ARMOR
Shadow Shrouded Arms AF:100 CON:15 DEX:16 Crush:10% Thrust:10%
Shadow Shrouded Boots AF:100 DEX:13 QUI:13 Stealth:5 Heat:6%
Shadow Shrouded Gloves AF:100 QUI:12 HIT:33 CS:2 Envenom:4
Shadow Shrouded Helm AF:100 STR:10 CON:12 DEX:10 QUI:10
Shadow Shrouded Jerkin AF:100 STR:13 DEX:13 HIT:30 Heat:6%
Shadow Shrouded Legs AF:100 STR:12 CON:15 QUI:12 Slash:10%

To find the capacity equivalent of these items, determine the m's for each ability, find out what m1 is, and calculate from

(1) what its capacity is

So arms are (15+16+20+20*2)/2 = 71/2 = 35
boots are (13+13+20*2+12)/2 = 78/2 = 39
gloves are (12+8+1+15*2) = 51/2 = 25
helm is (10+12*2+10+10) = 54/2 = 27
jerkin is (13*2+13+7+12)/2 = 58/2 = 29
legs are (12+15+12+20*2)/2 = 79/2 = 39

So you can see right off that the boots and legs have a capacity higher than is possible by spellcrafting. Epic armor is not

that bad. Same goes for Legion drops- it will be hard beating them. Good drops let you beat the spellcrafting C=37 limit, and

they are a good pick if everything on the list is useful. We already know that C=37 is probably going to cost you 10plat or

so, and C=32 with no overloading is going to cost you maybe 4plat. How can you get a more reasonable SC item?

Well lets say you dont have that lvl 51 material, you have say a 46th material, and you don't have a 100 qua item, but

instead have a 99 quality item. That crafter who is busting his butt to make that 100 quality item may have a few 99's

banked. Instead of 4 plat for perfection, you can prob get one of these for near material cost. Typical cost of these high

end materials is say 150g, and at 3x cost to get a 99, you are around 500g. This material has a base capacity of 24. WIth

overloading you could take this up to 29, but somewhere between 24 and 29 would be more reasonable. The most points you could

pack into one of these things ranges from 2*24/5 = 10 to say 2*29/5 = 11. So figure m=10 for 4 slots = 40 pts is a much more

reasonable imbue. Were you to go all 15 items spellcrafted, this would be 40*15 = 600 points, and you could not max out

stats, resists, and hp on these items alone.

So what I would do is instead of planning all slots/items to be spellcrafted, go through your epic armor list, the DF loot

list, and the drops list for your class and see if there are any great capacity items on those lists. Then use spellcrafting

to fill in the holes. One glaring hole at first glance is in the form of jewelry. Consider for instance the lvl 50 drop list

for rings for Shadowblades,
Rings:
- Twisted Darksteel Ring (Spin): +2 CS, +7 Dex, +6 Quick = 35/2 = 17
- Ring of Glacial Might (Raum): 10 Str, 10 Con, 6% Cold = 46/2 = 23
- Ring of Ice (Raum): 13 con, 6% cold, 6% heat, 6% spirit = 52/2 = 26
- Infernal Black Diamond Ring (DF): 12 str, 12 con, 10% cold = 62/2 = 31
- Ancient Ebon Ring (Malm): 7 str, 7 con, 7 quick, 6 char, 6 power = 49/2 = 24
- Flame Wrought Ring (Malm): 9 dex, 9 quick, 8% heat, 8% spirit = 66/2 = 33
- Giant Black Sapphire Ring (Vanern): 7 str, 7 dex, 15 hits = 24/2 = 12
- Drakulv Mightcaller (Malm): 12 Str, +15 hits = 28/2 = 14
- Shadowsteel ring (spin): +18 hits, 4% cold, 4% heat, 4% energy = 36/2 = 18

Note most of this junk is just that...junk. Sure you got the occasional rare drop like the ring of ice which beats the curve,

but in general my findings from looking at the available jewelry is that spellcrafting will have the greatest impact here.

I also think there is a lot of room for weapons and spellcrafting. Take for instance 1 handed axes above 90 quality,

Brilliant Saeor's Serrated Cleaver (Prince)(Either Hand): 16.2 DPS, 4.2 Speed, 94 QL, , 25% bonus, +5 axe, +7 str...Procs an

80 a Tick DOT at level 49. = 47/2 = 23 pts
- Double Bladed Ice Razor (Raum)(Mainhand): 16.2 DPS, 4 Speed, 93 QL, 9 Str, 5 Axe, 2 Parry, 4% cold (Not sure of Proc) =

62/2 = 31pts
- Axe of the Balefire (Legion): DPS:16.5 DPS, 3.4 Speed, 100 QL,35% bonus, strength 14, 4 Axe, 4 parry, not sure of proc =

59/2 = 28pts

I don't know how to treat the proc, but someone who just wants quality can probably get a nice arcanium axe and get that

spellcrafted instead of going on raid after raid hoping to be the one this time that gets the legion/prince/WoW drop.

The implementation plan seems to say that armor/weapon spellcrafting is next, and jewelcrafting will be added at a much later

date.


Another thing that I am seeing now is the multiple specs in the mid 30's build that miraculously become multi 50 specs at lvl

50 with ranks and spellcrafted items. An instance of this is say the shadowzerker verses 5 spec shadowblade builds. For

instance this spec,

Initial Spec:
39 LA
35 Axe
35 Envenom
34 Stealth
34 CS

Is now considered superior by many than this spec,

44 LA
43 Axe
35 Envenom
35 Stealth
10 CS

With the reasoning that at RR5 (+4 skills) the former would need +7+11+11+11+11 = +48 skills, and the latter would need

+3+4+11+11= 29 skills. The difference here is +19 skill points. Because of all the 11's, you are looking at several less than

optimal spellcrafts to hit those numbers and on a raw basis you will tie up +60 more points to get the former than the

latter. This is just one item on the uber S=37, 150 platinum plan, or its close to 1.5 items worth of points in a more

reasonable 40pt per item plan. The guy who got his skills closer to their final level is less dependant upon crafted items on

all slots, and can take more advantage of things like S>37 epic armor pieces, and drops, and will overall be stronger from a

stats and resistance standpoint, and spend far less time endlessly farming gold for spellcrafting. My feel is such plans will

only really become viable when jewelcrafting is introduced, as there just isnt that much you can beat in the epic armor.

SUMMARY oF KEY POINTS
---------------------
-You get the most points into an item by having 4 equal gems.
-The absolute cap for spellcrafting is C=37, corresponding to 60 points on an item. Its cost is prohibitive (10plat est)
-The absolute limit is 900pts from spellcrafted items, probably costing you around 150 platinum and weeks of gold farming
-Epic armor is pretty good, and hard to beat. The weakest areas are weapons (spellcrafting) and jewelry (jewelcrafting)
-Spellcrafters should save 100qual gems for overcharging, and you want a high craft person doing overcharging
-Dropped items can exceed the spellcrafting limit, and it is worth your time to peruse the drop lists

(had to do 2 posts due to char limit)

 

[Solid]

Fact the guy didnt even check the items he is proposing makes me not trust him much.

Just cos Mad Troll says Drakulv Mightcvaller is a ring, this guy believes em. its a god damn shield.

Anyway I really dont think we should be worrying bout Spellcrafting yet, till its retail on US and people start getting 1000+ Spellcrafting skills we wont know how effective or viable peoples plans are.

Till then either build a char around current/imminent updates or build it with the intention of best case scenario.

For now I am gonna increase base axe as without Spellcrafting I will be using standard 99% Arcanium DB/Hand Axes.

Remember Poisons get assigned to body resist so is Lifebane with 32% Body resist better than a higher Weapon spec???

I say 32% as thats how much Body resist I got atm and I didnt even try that hard.

 

[old.Hellskor]

Originally posted by Solid

Just cos Mad Troll says Drakulv Mightcvaller is a ring, this guy believes em. its a god damn shield.

Well, there IS a ring called 'Drakulv Mightcaller' +15Str or something.
Never seen a shield called like that though.

 

[Solid]

I have seen shields with that name and never seen a ring, maybe I need to spend more time in malmo, but the name even sounds all wrong for a ring imo

 

[thorungla]

Suddenly realised somewhat slowly that the issue of respec is somewhat a post hijak, however it is relevant I suppose to the issue of SB specs since we are trying to ensure a maximised template.

Earlier I mentioned I had also made an enquiry using our very own rightnow tool. Though I cannot confirm or deny their belief of how respec works wrt auto training. It is the most official and non ambiguous reply to the question so far

Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
Respec Query for upcoming patch


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (CS) - 11/04/2002 11:39 AM
Greetings,

Yes, you do "lose" the auto-train points.

---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support

Good luck all, maybe someone on excalibur could test this for us all. I'll make a link to this thread on their forums in the hope of getting someone to do so

 

[thorungla]

Thought I should include a paste of my enquiry to rightnow as well

Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
Respec Query for upcoming patch


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (CS) - 11/04/2002 11:39 AM
Greetings,

Yes, you do "lose" the auto-train points.

---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support

10/31/2002 04:49 PM
Having read the respec notes for 1.52 I have a further query regarding the affect of respec on autotrained skills. As per your 1.52 notes:

"NOTE: if your class has a "min spec level" on any specialization then you will be taken down to the minimum allowed when you do a /respec all based on your level. You cannot go under your class minimum (based on your level) for those specializations."

As a Shadowblade having autotrained stealth, so far to spec level 10 as I have just dinged 40, I would like/intend to respec from axe to sword for purely aesthetic reasons. However I am concerned about my auto trained stealth. I understand upon respec it will be dropped to the minimum for my level, ie. in my case 10. However will these autotrained points now have cost me specialisation points? And will I be able to continue autotraining the skill further?

Most of the community I have discussed this with beleive that respec. 'returns' specialisation points to you, and as such for auto trained skills will 'return' you less as it is only dropped to the minimum appropriate for your level. This is potenitally very expensive for classes such as the warrior with all weapons autotrained as a level 50 warrior respeccing will lose 231 spec points. Please could you confirm exactly how this does work, either to myself or the community before the patch is released to help prevent possible respec mistakes by many.

 

[erl]

Ouch! *takes the slap in the face*

I was totally positive that you didn't lose the points, mostly since I read the vnboards daily and the question came up there many times. I can't recall I saw any other answer than that you did not lose the points. Actuall, I still believe that you get them back and that GOA is mistaken, but I guess I'm getting alone to think that after that answer from the CS .

I won't be sure until someone I trust tells me what really happens, because I really don't trust the CS, they've been wrong before. Even in a question sent by myself.

Looking forward to the real clarification.

Edit: When readin the thing you say about warriors one more time I really don't beleive what the CS answered you, can't think Mythic implemented it so poorly so a class will lose that many points just from respeccing. But hey, who knows?

 

[thorungla]

Mythic arent known for their common sense in the implementation or development of anything tbh.

And even with this reply from GOA's Rightnow CS, Im still not convinced either. TBH I dont really see any reason to believe they know anymore than us and would much rather be able to test it myself. Especially with the following apparent difference between US and Euro respec. anyway. Or have GOA just misunderstood how it works too, or have they given us more time to use the feature? Who knows. One thing I do know from experience, is that more often than not the players know more about a game than the developers

In the US version you must use it within 2 levels, "so, if you are level 22, and you want to respec, you will have to do it before you attain 24th level." quote from:

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/447.php

While here in Europe according to the most recent monday news, you must use it within 3 levels, "Joe Bloggs is level 44 when we patch to 1.52, he therefore must use his "/respec all" ability before reaching level 47, or lose it. " quote from:

http://www.camelot-europe.com/news/...?id_article=468

Please please please, just let us all test it on Gorre first.

 

[thorungla]

A response from my post at Midgard Excalibur forums, not a confirmation of any testing done, but another link to VN boards which indicates that if you have autotrained points you do get to keep them, however respeccing does not give you autotrained points. Lets hope this is the case, as it is the most logical implementation that we all would have expected. Still dont think I will be risking my 'free' 77 points earnt from autotraining when the patch comes on Wed, any volunteers?

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp...60645&replies=9

 

[erl]

You link isn't working, posting the right one:

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=39160645&replies=9

That thread suggests that what I've been saying all along is right. I hope I'm right because it happens so rarely otherwise