Seems the patch made a difference to necros....

[Maeloch]

A single caster would kill the necro in seconds (can 2 shot it tbh). Also the 5 hibs musta been retards, if melees not working, stop, mez, leave him. Its not really that difficult tbh.

Bah, I logged just b4 that fight I think, cos looked like hibs not going out again.

If the bard whose I think it is, he was 46th lvl and sorting his RvR qb out for the first time that night....dunnno about the rest of the hibs.

Ah, and I see was Eats's shammy who sprayed all that muck on me the run b4? Bring back teh BD!!

Mael, 50th menta.

 

[Dumle]

We took out 3 necros with: 2 Thanes, 2 Skalds, 1 Runie & 1 SB tonight. Thats right, no healer and no shammy ^^ very FOTM, hehe
Skalds instamezzed one Necro each then phat MA

Thing is every class in that grp had some kind of DD (or in SB:s case, a poison) so It worked like a charm, shame that scout popped and 2 shotted me after the necropet had wasted my bubble

Saw quite a few Necros out in Emain late last night (early morning) tho, was fun.

 

[Wee Soulkeeper]

So actually another class can join RvR and not feel totally useless?? That´s actually really good if you see it from that point of view

Perhaps soon we will see Summoning SM´s joining up too then?? LOL

PS. no whine just something that I find funny

 

[Dumle]

Yes its very good that in some instances the "gimped" classes can be uber

 

[Huntingtons]

im happy that necroes fianally can do something stlong, but maybe not that stlong tbh... Dont plat my necro anymore really so cba to get him sc'd

 

[Iceflower]

>Perhaps soon we will see Summoning SM´s joining up too then?? LOL

Dont you carry it a bit over the top now, making more classes viable in rvr. We cant have that

 

[Vorkanz]

Wot Dumle Said

yer, about an hour later i joined up with another 2 necros, got mezzed, stunned, dunno wtf else, but basically taken out 1 by 1 as we sat there and watched eachother die ^^

Mezz/stun in combo with casters takes out necros pretty speedy, as i been finding the last couple o weeks.

 

[Dumle]

Yeah was Skaldmess and Shieldslam
First when we saw you three Necros we having no Seer and only one skald we kinda errmm... "avoided" you there a while, until we got the other skald

 

[Vorkanz]

yer, we all had a bit of a laugh when u turned around and pegged it hehe. But tbh u owned us, and took us out effectively

 

[Dumle]

Well three abominations coming running towards you on a straight line is a bit scary
You just know it will hurt as a motherf....r

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

dont get too excited though..

Yes they are good against melee.. bu a caster can destroy yer pet very quick not to mention chain mez/stun.

chainstun works? last time i tried to PA CD a necro pet it said "the <pet> cant have that effect again!"

 

[bigchief]

chainstun works? last time i tried to PA CD a necro pet it said "the <pet> cant have that effect again!"

nah it doesnt. Im not sure it has a full immunity timer but its definetly got one or the dragon would chain stun me

 

[Groborthir]

Bah, I logged just b4 that fight I think, cos looked like hibs not going out again.

If the bard whose I think it is, he was 46th lvl and sorting his RvR qb out for the first time that night....dunnno about the rest of the hibs.

Ah, and I see was Eats's shammy who sprayed all that muck on me the run b4? Bring back teh BD!!

Mael, 50th menta.

/hug

I still hate your Sever the Tether, though!

 

[remi]

i only see necros in zergs , why?

 

[Glacier]

cause noone uses em in fotm grps? even tho the af debuff+assist train would be nice ;o

 

[Glacier]

Yeh, Necro's are nearly untouchable in melee now. They can get their pets up to 95% absorb or so.

The only reliable way to take them out is using another caster.. just avoid them if you don't have that. Sucks.

hmmm... necro train+bof counter to savagetrain ;o?

 

[Morchaoron]

i only see necros in zergs , why?

although he is nearly melee invulnerable, its a pain to control it aswell in 8 vs 8 fights, most time of a necro is wasted cuz of the stupid pet

in zergs you can kinda do the same trick all casters do, just stand at a distance and cast some stuff in

i used it in a keep defense once but apparently i was lagging so bad i lagged out of my pets sight so i lost control and there was i standing with 1% hp in the middle of a mid/alb zerg without a group to heal me

 

[Beck]

Heres a quote from a guy who shed some light on how a necro can be viable in grps...

...

I'm not by any means an expert on RvR with a necro, but I've learned a few things and as with any class you will either have to learn to play to the class strengths (there are a few) or you will try to make a necro into what it isn't and you will get frustrated and either quit or play another class.

Before I describe what a Necro is, let me tell you what it isn't.

A Necro isn't a ranged caster that can supress enemy ranged casters. You CAN'T do this, don't even try. You will be CC'd (you take FULL duration and have no immunity timer) or you will simply be blasted into oblivion (even a fully buffed blue mob is STILL a blue mob, and it dies like a blue mob...).

A Necro isn't a tank. You can't 'charge' because you don't have determination, purge, ignore pain...blah blah blah. You get in front of the battle and you will DIE, and someone will take your realm points and buy abilities to kill you and your realm mates even faster.

So, if you are not a caster, not a tank, and (obviously) not a healer/speeder/bubbler...what the heck are you?

You are singuarly unique, and that has good and bad points. You can't duke it out with casters, but you can give tanks all they want and then some (one on one vs a tank and the tank WILL die, all other factors such as level and realm rank being approximately equal). You can debuff the armor factor on tanks such that they take double damage from all physical attacks (try assisting a scout sometime with your AF debuff...quite the ranged pair in RvR...a gimp assisting a gimp...). 50 deathsight is a MUST for the serious RvR Necro because a level 50 debuff is resisted MUCH less than a level 39 debuff. Also, it's -250 rather than -200. I can throw this debuff into a one on one encounter (there are many of these in a large battle) and watch the recipient just MELT from the blows of my realmmate. It's perhaps your BEST spell and you should be using it a lot in RvR.

Being somewhat 'detached' from a given battle is also a good thing. Assassin types don't rush to single you out (they get their head handed to them far too often if you are otherwise not engaged) so you can really afford to move off to one side a bit (and not have to deal with the AE centered on the rest of your group) and pick out the engagements within the battle. Scouts have used this technique since sniper/ganking was squashed back in the first few months of release. No Scout will try to act like a tank, and a really good Scout will not try to duel a caster at range either (caster can quickcast and Scout has no way to 'fire thru' an interruption, you do the math...it always adds up to a dead Scout). What you want to do is to debuff anything that is swinging a weapon, LIFETAP (your base lifetap does more damage than your powertap, save powertap for cleanup to get back power to give to your group healer/casters) casters and healers that are otherwise engaged, and in general, be the 'swing man' that moves about the battle adding a debuff here and a bit of extra damage there. If you move to somewhat close range (always keep pet on passive by the way) you can actually throw out a pretty sizable chunk of damage to a target by doing the following:

Hit your painworking str/con debuff. this is 'instant' to your shade AND your pet, so it will fire off immediately.

hit your base lifetap spell (it's the one that pets casts and can be interrupted, so you better not have attracted someone's attention at this point).

Hit your spec lifetap spell (this is the one that your shade casts, and about the time your pet has cast the base lifetap above, this will fire off right behind).

POW, two hits within seconds for 200-300 damage EACH plus crits (you did get wild power, right? No reason not to as it's about the only worthwhile RA you have...).

Some other utility you have in RvR...

No class is better in keep sieges for controlling guard pops and wall bowmen. You can powertap the bowmen (in essence, you kill em and still are at full power). you can debuff the melee guards then start to nuke them to death, and if you get aggro, you can melee em to death with your combination of debuff and lifetap (they get weaker, you gain back health...what a combo). During keep siege I generally have my pet attack the door, but I bring it back with a 'passive' to start debuffing and nuking guard pops.

Let the other casters do their job of managing enemy casters on the walls, you can't do it well so don't frustrate yourself trying to do a job you'll only do badly. HOWEVER, with all the power you suck up from guard pops, you can keep the casters supplied with power, consider it damage that you are doing vicariously thru others...

its expensive (10 points) but 'strike the soul' has proven to be a good investment for me. Keep lords resist your debuff to the point that you will burn a full bar of power and STILL may not have landed it, but with 'strike the soul', you can debuff even level 10 keeplords (though, you may have to hit him 4 or 5 times). The rate of health loss for a debuffed lord is truly a wonder to behold...This can also be useful on high level keeps to take out the named guard. I've been able to debuff the named and then solo one of the unnamed purple guards while strike the soul is up. Your lifetaps and such will get decent hits until the timer expires.

One final suggestion...when Albion has DF, you can usually get some really nice RP by makeing a little 'goodwill tour' to the Hib and Mid entrances, and cleaning up the various hunting spots. You are perhaps one of the few non-stealth classes that can freely travel around DF and go about the distasteful (but overwhelmingly fun) job of removing all enemy lowbies from the dungeon. Sure, folks always ask how you can kill grey and green cons, and the answer you should give is 'simple, you only have to hit em once or twice...'.

To sum this all up...

If you are wanting to make a 'commitment' to being good at RvR with your Necro, you have to understand that being 'good' at RvR with a necro is NOT the same as being good at RvR with an ice wizard (where you get lots of stacked death spam) or an infiltrator (where you get lots of single death spam). You may get NO death spam at all, but you may just tip the battle in favor of your group, and provide your casters with the power to make that last push at a critical moment.

Glory seekers need not apply, the RvR job of the Necro is to win battles, not to win one on one individual engagements. You are the 'ace up the sleeve' for your group but only if you know and play your role to perfection. If you do it right, the enemy may not even realize just what it was that went wrong for them, just that things fell apart on them as their tanks all died, their opposing casters showed unusual endurance, and the dead came to outnumber the living far too quickly.

...
and heres a follow up he posted as well...

Just a few comments...

"#1. We do have immunity timers."

You are correct, that problem was fixed (finally). I'm so used to the fact that I spend a lot of a battle CC'd that even with immunity timers the full duration makes it seem like a typical battle is one long wait...

"#2. No mention of transferring power in rvr besides keep sieges."

Actually, while I didn't specifically spell it out, I did mention that you save powertap till you are 'cleaning up' to refurbish the power of your healers and casters. Certainly, you will want to replenish this power during an open field battle if they are running low, but a lot of running engagements are over way before the power runs out.

"#3. That combo with ae str/con debuff is terrible. He neglected to mention that you cant cast another life/powtap for 3 secs after that debuff is cast and that a green con version barely ever resolves, and most importantly, it breaks mez."

The combo is not the AE str/con debuff, it's the single target insta debuff from painworking base line. That fires off TRULY instant and does not reset any sort of timers, it's a 100% freebie. Also, you are using the red version (assuming you are level 50) so resistance is in your favor.

"#4. He seems to be afraid of all enemy casters. The only solo caster that concerns me is one that can stun my pet, and even at that I dont always auto-lose to them. Tell the pet to attack the enemy caster, follow your charging pet into range, and press Facilitate painworking and lifetap. You will pwn. If you can close with the shade to 500, then start shouting during the 3rd lifetap cast fortehwin."

All casters have some form of CC in their base line (except necromancers of course) so they can control the inititive of the battle. No, it's not hopeless to fight an enemy caster, but all things being equal (realm rank and level) you will lose more often than you will win. In a fight were the caster is otherwise engaged though, you can own them becaue FP sets you up to never be interrupted (I cast two lifetaps, then FP, then follow up with two powertaps so I'm at full power and the bad guy is dead). Don't be afraid of ANY class, but realize that your strength is not to duel with enemy casters when they are not otherwise engaged. My favorite teammate in RvR is my wife who plays a matter cabbie. She nearsights and dots, I finish off the nearly helpless casters and resupply her with power. It works well for me.

"#5. He didnt mention anything about buff bots and their role in making the necro viable in rvr. Was he assuming this when he said you will -ALWAYS- beat a tank? And why would you be fighting a tank anyway?"

If you are lucky enough to have a buff bot (and believe it or not, MOST people are not, I happen to be one of the lucky ones but I do not presume that all are) then you know that a full set of con and AF buff will make you a tank's worst nightmare. Why would I be fighting a tank? Because it's THERE, and I can affect them the most. AF debuff and the big bad tank wonders what happened to the protection of his MP suit of expensive tissue paper. As I discussed above, the enemy tanks, with determination and purge, are GOING to get to your group, YOU can do something about it...

"#6. He also neglected to mention to assist the MA at all costs. In my world, that's what wins battles. If the MA dies, have an alternate MA macro set up on another quickbar. And if a tank gets on you, you tell bommy to go swing on the MA's target and FP/nuke that arse down; or if FP is down, just shout and base con debuff. Ignore the tank."

Not all battles are MA oriented, and in fact, once you are past the 8v8 gank squads, most big battles in the open field are a collection of small battles. I look around me when I'm fighting in the open field and I pick and choose from a buffet of targets. being a shade means that I have the luxury of having my pet attacking and casting at one thing while I'm sizing up the near environment. If I see a healer in the back keeping two or three tanks up, I rock that healer until his tanks are dead and the rest of the group are moving forward. I see one of my mercs engaged with an assassin, I toss in an AF debuff and a nuke or two so that the merc can finish him off. There is a time to concentrate on the MA, and there is a point at which chaos takes over and the battle swirls around you in a series of small engagements.

You have to play thru this many times to know when the right thing to do needs to be done. One thing I've noticed is that for whatever reason, MOST toons choose to ignore an abomination that is not directly engaging them, I've moved right past rows of tanks to kill their supporting healer just because they were glued to the 'real' toons in front of them to the exclusion of 'pets' zipping by into their rear ranks.

However, as with most classes, the Necro does allow some difference in playing style, and what works right for me may not be exactly perfect for others. What you have to come to terms with though is that you can't play your Necro the way you WANT it to play, you have to play it to the strenghts that it has and adapt your play to what your class CAN (and cannot) do.

I've decided that because of the overwhelming response to my little text that I'm going to write an RvR centered guide. I've got a few other experienced Necros working with me to polish it up. I'll be sure to post a rough copy here soon.

 

[bigchief]

Hmm a pretty accurate assessment tbh.

Though necros do have cc in their baseline which he claims we dont (snare in painworking).

Also he was wrong about the way the insta works but the general theory was pretty good

(Yet another also ) Alot of his comments seem to come from a zerg vs zerg situation. 1fg vs 1fg chances are necros mez'd alot, group dies around him then its necro vs 1fg. Its 10x easier as a necro in a zergy fight (even just 2fg vs 2fg).