See Hidden Realm Ability CRY NO For the love of god!!!

[m-a-n-t-i-s]

To be honest my major beef insnt with Inifls... Its scouts.

Being able to be almost toally invisible AND pick people off from miles away seems a bit wrong to me. Even though it decloaks them there is still planty of time to run.

Infils get my respect for actually getting up close and personal and if any class out of the stealthers should keep some decent amount of stealth - its them.

 

[old.Hendrick]

Keep it calm Runolas. I do not use copy and paste, it is just an observation I have made from reading the boards. I am not saying your class is easy to play, but you still have a very interesting combination of skills and, together with scouts, offer by far the most challenging and fun experience in RvR, or so it appears to me. I say again, why not group with other stealthers? A group of infiltrators or shadowblades or whatever should be able to take on a group of enemies, all depending on level and class mix, as well as luck with CS of course. I am giving that idea out for the third time now, but still nobody answers to it.

And the lone stragglers you should be hunting would be archers I believe, as both archers and assassins seem to be viewed as a solo-class at the moment. With the detect hidden that should be fairly easy to pull off, and will make a scouts life more exciting.

You simply fail to see that the main problem is not destealth, but the fact that we have no chance to get away alive at all. The damned 10 sec until you can stealth is simply too much. By that time we are either mez/root/stun or simply killed.

Other classes are mezzed, rooted and stunned before they even get close to a target. In general, I am just fed up with all the complaining. Have you ever tried anything else than attacking a full group alone in stealth mode and one-shotting a caster? If there is one second caster with quick wit in the group you are attacking alone, he'll just cast some AOE spell and de-stealth you anyway. I ask again, why not make a stealther group? Once my scout is ready to rock, that's exactly what I am planning to do.

 

[old.Runolas]

Originally posted by Mattus
To be honest my major beef insnt with Inifls... Its scouts.

Being able to be almost toally invisible AND pick people off from miles away seems a bit wrong to me. Even though it decloaks them there is still planty of time to run.

Infils get my respect for actually getting up close and personal and if any class out of the stealthers should keep some decent amount of stealth - its them.

By saying infiltrator I hope you mean all assassins they are not
that different. Not all Shadowblades are CritBlades. I’m going for a SoulBlade, but I will still one-shoot blue mages and some yellow. Both infiltrators and Nightshades can do this too. Midagard have the weakest mages so having the best assassin isn’t off balance.

I agree with you on the Ranger, Scout and Hunter thing. Ranged attack with stealth is too powerful. I don’t think the see hidden think will hurt them from soloing assassins as they will spec high bow, weapon, BC with sufficient stealth. They will be hard to nail when you also add in the pet.

 

[m-a-n-t-i-s]

I know nothing about any other realm than albion - Ive never played anywhere else so I would be wrong to pass judgement.

Ive never really been happy with the idea of "invisibility" in any game.

 

[old.Runolas]

Originally posted by Hendrick
Keep it calm Runolas. I do not use copy and paste, it is just an observation I have made from reading the boards. I am not saying your class is easy to play, but you still have a very interesting combination of skills and, together with scouts, offer by far the most challenging and fun experience in RvR, or so it appears to me. I say again, why not group with other stealthers? A group of infiltrators or shadowblades or whatever should be able to take on a group of enemies, all depending on level and class mix, as well as luck with CS of course. I am giving that idea out for the third time now, but still nobody answers to it.

And the lone stragglers you should be hunting would be archers I believe, as both archers and assassins seem to be viewed as a solo-class at the moment. With the detect hidden that should be fairly easy to pull off, and will make a scouts life more exciting.

Other classes are mezzed, rooted and stunned before they even get close to a target. In general, I am just fed up with all the complaining. Have you ever tried anything else than attacking a full group alone in stealth mode and one-shotting a caster? If there is one second caster with quick wit in the group you are attacking alone, he'll just cast some AOE spell and de-stealth you anyway. I ask again, why not make a stealther group? Once my scout is ready to rock, that's exactly what I am planning to do.

Well to your information I do grp with other ShadowBlades from time to time. The thing is that this doesn’t work in places like Emain, because there is not ONE grp there is many…usually an army. What you are suggesting is that I take a grp of ShadowBlades to grief Albions in their frontiers while xping, because this is the only place that we will have any successes with this tactic. I like to hunt in Emain, because the risk is much higher and all people are there for rp not xp. I believe this patch will only strengthen the grief killing in the frontiers as most assassins will find it too hard to hunt in Emain. Have you tried to keep a stealthed group together? Please try it before you boost out how good this will be.

I also believe that this patch will make it even harder for tanks in RvR, so if you are tired of getting mezzed…prepare to get mezzed even more, because there will be no assassins taking the mages out for you.

Your last point on assassin’s only attacking mages in group’s only shows how little you know. Most of my kills are from taking down running targets and that takes skill, tactics and timing…things that you obviously don’t know anything about. The thing is that they don’t come running one at a time so you have to pick you target very careful, you move at snail pace, must get face-to-face or else your PA misses etc. My suggestion is go back try a high lvl assassin (If you have a rl friend with one), and then you can tell us what you think. You talk of complaining, the assassin classes are nowhere near owning the battlefield. We are just bringing in some flavor to the game. IMO this is an issue that has blown out of proportion, because some whiny babies complained and we ended up with a nurf. This is ok if you are 15, but as an adult I think this is lack management form Mythic and in the end it may be the downfall of the game.

 

[old.Hendrick]

I am asking questions and making suggestions about what appears to me as a good idea. I am nowhere stating that I know the answer to anything. I am trying to switch a discussion from "cry, cry, I can't do it" to "hm, what else can I do then". Does not seem to work, so I'll stop it.

 

[Olgark]

You need alot of skill to play a caster in RvR. You need to pick your targets with care and not get to close to the cmobat or you are toast.
But for RvR damage and realm points. Casters win everytime, due to AOE spells. In a big battle I can rake in the bounty points and realm points with relative ease by standing back and casting AOE spells at the nearest targets, and often hit other enemy near to them. This has got me to 14 realm points at level 26, yes I know its not much but consider that I had only gone RvR only twice in that time. Then you may get a feal as to how many we can get.

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by Del-Unger
Long term by the time things possibly settle down most people will be playing SWG.

Sorry, this is slightly off topic and perhaps an unecessary bump
but for christ's sake, can people stop acting as if SWG is going to be some kind of Eden? There will be nerfs, there will be bugs, cheaters, lag, server downtime, bad customer service, etc et-fkin-cetera in SWG just like in any MMPORG anywhere ever.
/em watches releasing steam clean rusty chainmail

 

[[TNN]Aardvark]

Right, sick of this whole argument, lemme set a few things straight:

If you're <50, you can't complain about being ganked by that assassin, he's higher level, thats just what happens. Its not about being uber, its about a higher con enemy being able to kill you. Makes sense, no?

To all who say that assassins should now concentrate on killing solo archers: There WILL BE no archers any more. Who would want to play a game where your enemy can see you from clipping range, yet you only realise they're there when the PA hits? Not many, and I know personally 5 rangers that quit US servers recently, and I barely play on US.

To all who say 'get in groups': who wants an archer or assassin in their group? Archers are gimped casters. Assassins are gimped tanks. Whats the point?

Imo, the changes to archers from 1.45 to 1.49 fixed the class. They WERE uber. No arguments there. But the plentiful bladeturns negate the archers crit shot, and also ring the alarm bells. Simply /face and run down the archer, and he's dead if you bring your group. Or if you can qc nearsight. Or if your solo and he misses the next shot, which is pretty likely given the accuracy nerfs.

Assassins and archers are NOT gods. Sure they can one shot people, but NOT even con, and not even blues most of the time. There would be a huge amount of luck involved if you were oneshotted by an assassin or archer that conned less than red to you. That or they've got a second account and a buffbot.

So please, listen. 1.50 kills these classes. Take a look at the people quitting the game. There is NO DOUBT that it was a bad decision to implement these changes. And if anyone so much as dares to say 'use tactics' I'll bloody well hack their head off with a spoon.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I have no objection to being killed by a higher level assassin. That's taken for granted.

What I do object to is them killing me and vanishing without a trace. Even though I have 20 buddies standing around me.

1.50 Nerfs the ability for assassins to pick on very easy/weak opponents who are grouped with powerful friends. That's it.

Anyone bigger than a grey/low green will survive the first hit so unstealth the attacker. Anyone who isn't surrounded by powerful friends will die anyway.

Archers:
The idea of the solo invisible sniper has been killed by 1.50. At least to the extent that they need not fear, even when standing in the middle of the golf course (emain).

You can still go solo sniping, just that assassin will have you for breakfast (if you don't keep moving/stay hidden _in cover_ rather than in plain sight. Cf. Monty Python's how not to be seen)

I foresee small groups of the little stealthers going around for protection, a scout a minstrel and possibly an infiltrator. Lone assassin attacks - he dies. He might kill the scout in the mean time.. but he'll still die.

Mythic made a cock-up when they released the game - Stealth is a very powerful ability. Combined with range it beats anything else.

They've been heavy handed in their toning down of it (it is just a toning down - if you've specced stealth then you can run around invisible to me and all the other non-assassins, and if you keep to the cover you might avoid the archer-hunters). It's something that needed to be done in my opinion, but people don't like their throne's being moved.

If you don't subscribe to the theory that Mythic throw out patches just to annoy the players... you can only come to the conclusion that they're trying to make it so that RvR (note that.. realm versus realm... not PvP - thats Mordred) is down to groups.

No more solo sniper killing the greys/newly rezzed. No more solo assassin rez killing in the same spot for hours without being spotted.

To bring up the famous quote on the IGN boards (attributed to many archers in the early days): 'Get a group, use tactics.'

The sniper is gone, long live the archer.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Heh, musta skimmed that last post... just read the 'use tactics' mention

A fellow IGN board lurker/poster/troll.

Spoons at twenty paces it is.


Edit:

Incidentally - if I see a blue con in a fight (apart from being amazed) there ain't no way I can kill him alone and survive. If he has 5 pals, if I had a decent sized bow I could probably pick him off and run away... but that's archers for you.

I used to play Battletech MUX (an online ascii mechwarrior style thing .... very cool) and the most powerful mechs were not the Atlases (100 tonne beasts, bristling with guns and tonnes of armour) but the Dragons and Griffons (lighter mechs, fast and long ranged).

I think speed translates roughly into 'picking your fights', stealth has the same effect at the moment.

Range + picking your fights + a little bit of armour goes a long long way.

In fact, the range and the armour are just icing. If you can pick your fights you've won already.

 

[m-a-n-t-i-s]

Amen Fin

 

[old.stabba]

prof: sorry i didnt mean the stat sheats of a healer mezz and a the cleric pbaoe, was badly worded but im not english so i do make mistakes . what i meant was that the mezz power will be in alb hands, due to the classess and RA:s you have available. however im pretty sure that many playes wont take an yber group ability on a 30 sec timer over some crappy passive enhancement for themselfs. but on paper you (albs) have all the tools you need to be the superior realm in the mez wars. that was what i meant, i didnt mean that the cleric mezz was better than the healer mezzes.

henderick: the problem isnt that we dont wanna group, the problem is our lack of effectivness in groups. playing as an assassin in a non-stealth group is pretty damn hard and not very rewarding. as you suggest grouping with other stealther whould be the sulotution, and stealther groups are very effective even smaller ones. that is in the games current state, in 1.50 a full stealther group will be free RP:s. any assassin passing along will see all the non-assassin chars, if his a good assassin he will snoop around abit and see how many non-assassins there is. after this all he need to do is a ./send to the nearest group and those snipers/minstrels will be dead. if he really hates stealthers hell give a ./ send to his truesight archer pall aswell, or a group with it and this will result in whipeout of the stealther group.
i do however believe that this is something that can be overcome the main problem is that it requires so insanly much work (we move at snailspeed and cant see eachother). moving a group like this, positioning everyone in a spot so that the covrage is reasonably high to prey on something, while still keeping archers hidden enough that assassins wont see them (how long before assassins take the time to check some common spots and just ruin it all anyway i dont know). now after that you have to initiate an attack where 50% (assuming 50% assassins, obviously a floating number) have to use a positional attack that they line up moving at 65% normal speed. after that they have to kill fast enough so that none of the assassins die (such a group whould have to work behind enemy lines and have little chance of a rez).
now if you think this is something doable, and just a small challange i applaud you. i know im gonna try, and it might be easier than it sounds, ill prolly have to use voice coms or have a scout typing at lightning speed. well lets assume this is a viable tactic (best one that springs to mind atm), how easily is it countered? it takes 1 archer in a group with truesight to clear out a tele-mg lane from stealthers, with all the insta heals, group RA:s and other variable that simply cannot be known by the stealther group it will require a pretty big lvl advantage to be on the safeside. if you consider this to be an effective RvR group then i rest my case, i simply dont. thats why the stealthers are whining, not cause we cant oneshot a greencon, but because we have been given a trade and no tools to do it.

 

[old.Runolas]

Originally posted by fingoniel
I have no objection to being killed by a higher level assassin. That's taken for granted.

What I do object to is them killing me and vanishing without a trace. Even though I have 20 buddies standing around me.

1.50 Nerfs the ability for assassins to pick on very easy/weak opponents who are grouped with powerful friends. That's it.

Anyone bigger than a grey/low green will survive the first hit so unstealth the attacker. Anyone who isn't surrounded by powerful friends will die anyway.

If you have 20 buddies standing around, why isn't one of them an assassin? If you had one you would kill the assassins, not the other way around. If this has been a problem for you why haven't you done something about it.

This nerf solves a problem that really hasn't been a problem, but whiners only got their way. If this goes on people will stop playing the game, then it will be too late for you to whine about them leaving.

 

[old.Kaylin]

Hendrick:
"But why are you all so easily scared of something that will, at the end of the day, simply make you change your style of playing a bit?"

What you fail to realise mate is this is NOT a "bit" it is a huge change of play style.

What it is doing, is making any archer type vulnerable who is soloing with stealth if there is an assasin class about. And as for talking about us being too powerful? Ok play a high lvl ranger for a bit, soloing is not an easy task, it requires a lot more thought than simply 'ooooh theres someone ill kill him'.

If you remove the ability to use stealth effectivley as an archer thats our main defense gone. I cant count the amount of times ive been mowed down in ygg by blue's/yellow's who are grouped. its even worse when there are groups of higher con's about(since they can see me stealthed from quite a distance).

So no archers arent really that overpowered, its just people tend to get shot and run first, and think ooooh i hate them, there so uber in rvr. When had you used /face and charged we would be dead.

As for the group of stealthers idea? real bad idea, all it would take is 1 assasin from the other team to spot you and it would be game over, as the other realms army came marching in. Yes youd get maybe a kill or two from your archers before getting ruthlessly slaughtered, if thats your idea of fun(getting butchered), then your more than welcome to it.

I do feel for assasins having to change their play style, but on the other side of the argument it was a bit unfair having lvl 50 assasins wondering round, killing off armies of lvl 45's. And if you dont believe that this was happening, ask one of the people who has played for a while in hib pryd. On several occasions ive seen entire screens scroll past of 'was killed by Hoster', or 'was killed by Herrah'. And fair play to them, its not exactly an exploit, just damn annoying ; ).

anyway ive started babbling again, oh yeah and if you think archers/assasins are overpowered theres a simple thing that deals with them, and has been in since day 1 i think. little something called the ptb. they fire/attack once, miss and suddenly a group is chasing em down.

anyway just my 2cents, hope i didnt offend anyone

/babble off