Season 7 Suggestion's

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So Crates

Guest
may as well start the thread :)...

got have no quarrels with the bwcsl rules, they are sound, but I do find it slightly weird that you don’t have a real system to decide the teams, ie whether a team should ct or t. I have been told that the system in use atm is you get the a division table and decide “randomly” whether the team should be ct or t for each match, and as 7 isn’t divisible by 2 some clans play ct 4 times and t 3 times, or vice versa. This doesn’t make sense to me nor do I believe its not been inforced, as my clans just turned up to the match and we end up playing whatever side is free. Ive never gone to a server and been told to move over because it was the other teams turn to start as ct / t. Mind you I’m slightly drunk atm and my memory might be a bit off. Or I just connect too late ;[.

Im saying this because some maps have a really big bias on them, and some don’t, so on maps that does have a big bias its crucial to start on the biased side. Or some clans play better as ct or t, so its important for them to start in that sense of bias. Normally map bias's swing towards ct, and with out a “fair” system of choosing teams, ie the winning team chooses after a little tournament of some sort, it really isn’t fair. Normally most matches have a knife round at the beginning, which is all right imho (I am aware that some clans are better at knifing than others, but atleast its in the respective clans hands, to be good with the knife, or not, as they choose).

But if the bwcsl if craving to be different from the other leagues then think of a different system. For instance I know that in q3ctf the two “leaders”, well the two best at the gauntlet, have a ball busting comp to decide sides (this is normally reserved for maps that aren’t symmetrical, or what map they should play). Though don’t quote me on this, I haven’t played q3cft in yeaaars.

So, unless the league admins “really” believe their system is fair, and have complete faith in it, and they are inforcing that system properly, then I cant do much about it, but if you would like use the knife round (*hint*), or another more original system to be dreamed up, you know how to get hold of me, or rather not get hold of me :p.

love… a tipsy xpd>spiff…
 
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RogueOne

Guest
In the past, it's always been the case that it's determined in advance, using a formula, rather than random methods, which team goes T or CT first for each match. I consider knife rounds to be lame, pointless, unfair and a waste of the admin's time and I've always been adamant about this in setting out the rules. Besides, it matters less in MR12 than it does in CO who goes as which team first.

Of course, with Anders and Block taking over, they will have the final say on this for next season.
 
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ECA

Guest
You get 3 weeks T 3 CT etc.

I do think a knife round would be good.
They are not random and do require some skill :-]

I guess you could say the pistol round is random, and whichever team loses has a natural disadvantage for that half, so lets set startmoney @ 4k. ^_^

That said knife rounds are a bit of a silly thing to decide on.
Just let the admin flip a coin or use a php script to randomly select etc.

Or make it so theres 9 teams in a division and you play 4 Ct, 4 T.

This would require careful map selection and ordering because it would suck to be put in the CT first section, and draw dust2, cbble, inferno, train, then on your T side, draw prodigy, clan2_fire etc. :-]
 
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ECA

Guest
oh my suggestions for next season.

9 teams per division.

half Ct's first 4 weeks, then swap over.

use mill and fire :-]

move to MR15.

Mainly because MR12 is so critical on the pistol rounds if the teams are even.

You would only end up finishing on 17 rounds max instead of 13.

If a clan loses both pistol rounds, then double eco's, thats 6 rounds down the drain in total, the enemy is halfway to winning.
2 rounds shouldnt affect games that much.

Also on a map like dust2, you can expect a T side to dominate, so lets say clan1 loses both pistol rounds, and the enemy get 8 rounds in total as T.

They are on 11 rounds, and only need 2 proper rounds as CT's to win.

MR15 eliminates the "lose both pistol rounds and your pretty much fucked unless you own the other clan" syndrome.
 
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[TNN]Aardvark

Guest
Right, lets start from the start, the 'T or CT' issue...

It matters not one tiny little bit which team goes which side first. If you sucked as one side and lost 11-1 and then loes the pistol round as the 'harder' side, well thats your fault. Don't lose the 'easy' side 11-1 would be the solution to that.

Knife rounds are a waste of time. We're already pushing the envelope in terms of time, and when captain clever decides to run away when he's 1 against 4 instead of just dying, things are going to get silly.

Which brings me neatly on to MR15. Again, time is the big limiting factor here. Potentially nearly 20 mins extra per match is just too much, that could add up to an hour over the course of one night. We'd be starting games at 6:30pm or 11pm if we went with MR15.

MR15 does solve the weighted pistol round issue, but my advice is try not to lose the pistol rounds then :) And don't automatically assume you have to eco the following 2 rounds, this isn't CO rules you know...

9 teams in a division means each week one team doesn't play. I don't think anyone would be a fan of this idea :)
 
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RogueOne

Guest
I think Aardvark sums it all up pretty well there, really.
 
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ECA

Guest
Bah my tone should have implied to you that I was joking about knife rounds ^_^.

I still think MR15 is the way to go.

The maximum time is 90 minutes, IF every round is played out to 3 minutes and if it goes to a draw.

Rounds usually only last 2 minutes, and rarely matches go to draws.

If MR15 is too long, what about MR13 or MR14.

MR12 definately puts too much emphasis on the pistol rounds.

Losing both pistol rounds can happen to any team, and it forces them to double eco as CT if they want proper guns, so it counts for 5/6 rounds depending on if they double eco as T.

And yes it DOES matter which side a team goes first, any right minded CL is going to pick the biased side first, because if you win a half 10-2 on a map, it makes it very hard for the opposition to come back ( not saying it hasnt happened cuz it has, eg SK going down 11-1 then coming back to win 12-0 ), its a huge psychological advantage.

You could eliminate the importance of pistol rounds by increasing the default start money so both teams have an equal chance from the off, but I think pistol rounds are a part of the game, and I dont favour that suggestion.
 
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[TNN]Aardvark

Guest
The knife round stuff was primarily aimed at So Crates, I did read your part where you said you didn't like them ECA :)

As for MR13+, well using the times we have now, if a game runs to full length ie 24x3 we're right on the borderline, I know that most games never go that far, but when you add in 10-15mins of messing around to get teams on server things get a little tight.
 
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So Crates

Guest
OK, I get the point, you guys are really, really against knife rounds, fine, and there is absolutely nothing you can do, and tbh, I’m even starting to come around kind of agree with you, you have a point. But I still don’t like the system for choosing ct / t.

Taking out knife rounds will take control out of the clan’s hands, for sure, so lets give it an element of chance. How about the admin flip a coin at the beginning of the match, then the clan’s calls (or types) heads or tails. Unless that's also inconvenient to the admin in concern (I mean the what would you do if your short of change? flip your mouse mat?), or you see this as been too much bother, or a time waster, then OK, ill stop been such a nuisance. Like ESC says, and the only reason I’m making all this fuss, is starting on the side of the maps bias is such a psychological advantage (well put sir). Why do you think footballers bother? Well at least thats why i thought they bothered :I. (I’m not “with” football thing)

I know some of you, well 99% of you, are die-hards and don’t want to change a thing, because your conservatives and you don’t like change, god damn it! I' not suggesting you have to, I simply just haven't been in this league long enough to know any better, maybe ill bend to your ways, maybe ill see the light. Just maybe, but not yet.

If you feel you have made yourselves clear to me and there isn’t any need for changes and I am yet again wasting your time and effort, then please, don’t feel obliged to respond, then ill know this issue is closed. But thanks for at least reading =], and voicing your views and opinions...

Lovingly...
 
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andersschm

Guest
<<Unless that's also inconvenient to the admin in concern (I mean the what would you do if your short of change? flip your mouse mat?), or you see this as been too much bother, or a time waster, then OK, ill stop been such a nuisance. >>

The toss of the coin, almost every competitive sport uses this method and I would agree it would be fair.

However using this online I don't think would work - mainly because neither clan can see the coin so there is always the question of trust. I don't doubt the league admins to be able to do this fairly - but as soon as clan X loses unexpectedly suddenly we get :

"I had 99 choke, the server was removing our bullets while everyone elses were hitting, this map is crap and the admins are fixing the teams against us"

So I would prefer something more robust that isn't open to question.
 
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So Crates

Guest
Yeh, I heard you, but as leagues go, the admin's word is final, as a general rule, if you really don’t like it, you could just leave, and if your getting 99 choke its your fault for not lowering your updaterate in sync with the server :)...

(And yes I know this situation applies to me, if i don't like the ct / t situation why don’t I just leave? well, I don’t have a "major" problem, just a concern)

I understand yes, fliping coins may cause problems, and may be more of a nuisance than it is actually worth, but as long as the clans understand that the admins makes the final decision, no questions asked, and the admins are trusted (aren’t they?), then I don’t see many problems. This "sport" just isn’t big enough yet for bribery ;).

Anyway, as the admins decision was final I should just give up and lump it, interesting debate though...
 

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