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eliminator
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- #31
Maybe just see what the patch throws up, then go about re-testing maps like Monkey_l to see if a significant change has taken place
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Afx
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- #32
I havnt played a single map where ive though ooooo its gonna be impossible to cap on here without bhopping...Were still basically playing the same maps that we have done for 2+ years(or variations of) and im sorry to disapoint you but games wernt all 0-0 bore draws before bhop became widespread...
Now obviously bhop being removed/toned down is gonna remove the ability to do some moves but i believe monkey_l for example will play just as well without bhop as it does with,And since when do we need 110-100 score lines to enjoy ourselves? personally i get as much enjoyment from winning a game 10-0 with a hard worked out cap than huge scorelines.
Now obviously bhop being removed/toned down is gonna remove the ability to do some moves but i believe monkey_l for example will play just as well without bhop as it does with,And since when do we need 110-100 score lines to enjoy ourselves? personally i get as much enjoyment from winning a game 10-0 with a hard worked out cap than huge scorelines.
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Moön
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- #33
I disagree, many people have complained about maps like shutdown_l because of its low scoring due to complete lockdowns, yeh you say you'd enjoy a game with a 10-0 win I'm not sure it'd be quite as enjoyable for most if it were 0-0 .
A map should be balanced for both offence and defence to work on, not just slugging it through a lock down or getting a lucky cap I can't see any fun there .
A map should be balanced for both offence and defence to work on, not just slugging it through a lock down or getting a lucky cap I can't see any fun there .
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rty
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- #34
bah well i agree with moon about the bh maps and afx in the aspect that a map doesnt rely on bh to win but it can certainly affect the outcome of the score. 
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eliminator
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- #35
I agree with Afx that these maps were played successfully before b'hopping began to play a part in proceedings, but once again its a just a case of testing the maps post-patch to see if any significant changes have taken place
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old.Carwash
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- #36
i rekon this is gonna be like when they changed concs.
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Afx
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- #37
Indeed carwash,People will moan and make a big deal and threaten to quit etc etc then itll all die down and we'll carry on playing the game on the same maps.
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eliminator
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- #38
Yep, this has the potential to upset many top-flight tfc players, lets hope they wont be so drastic this time around
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old.[dark]Storm
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- #39
Until we played much without bj but with the tactical advancement bj brought we can't do more than suggest which map will be affected in ehat way.
Playing will undoubtedly change on Well or Monkey for the prem or div1 clans, but tactics will follow to change and there is no prediction if the maps will become unplayable.
But the offense will have a hard time on maps like rock2, sd_l or insurrection_r, these will end 0:0 90% of the time, if 2 clans of about the same strength will compete with the usual 4d4o setups. Problem is, 3d5o setups won't work (my suggestion), so these maps will be nearly unplayable for prem and maybe div1 clans.
And yes, I can agree with the thesis that 10:0 games often are great fun, but on the other hand 0:0 games usually are not.
Clans of lower skill level won't be that much affected, which leads me to the following idea (dark is bwtfcl member since season 4 only, so I don't know if soemone had this idea before): why not starting map polls for each div instead the whole league?
Many div2 and 3 clans usually don't play that intensive so they will favor the maps they know, namely valve maps and the traditional customs, while clans from higher divisions put much more time into playing, developing tactics aso, so they will more likely want to play more customs, and espacially those that fit their needs more (the higher you get, the more dominant defense usually gets, so the highly def dominated maps are likely to be 0:0 fun killers, like mentioned above).
As for the maps:
cz2: great map, especially as you get away from the usual ctf scheme, it adds tactical depth to the league.
mulch is just to spammy imo.
2mesa3 looks good to me, but possibly the liftbug might destroy the game, so better look for others.
Vidars and vidar2 are not fit for league play i think, just to open all in all.
Enclave is a map that, like cz2, follows a different concept so that you'll have to find unorthodox setups and tactics.
The other maps i don't know.
[dark]Stormbringer
Playing will undoubtedly change on Well or Monkey for the prem or div1 clans, but tactics will follow to change and there is no prediction if the maps will become unplayable.
But the offense will have a hard time on maps like rock2, sd_l or insurrection_r, these will end 0:0 90% of the time, if 2 clans of about the same strength will compete with the usual 4d4o setups. Problem is, 3d5o setups won't work (my suggestion), so these maps will be nearly unplayable for prem and maybe div1 clans.
And yes, I can agree with the thesis that 10:0 games often are great fun, but on the other hand 0:0 games usually are not.
Clans of lower skill level won't be that much affected, which leads me to the following idea (dark is bwtfcl member since season 4 only, so I don't know if soemone had this idea before): why not starting map polls for each div instead the whole league?
Many div2 and 3 clans usually don't play that intensive so they will favor the maps they know, namely valve maps and the traditional customs, while clans from higher divisions put much more time into playing, developing tactics aso, so they will more likely want to play more customs, and espacially those that fit their needs more (the higher you get, the more dominant defense usually gets, so the highly def dominated maps are likely to be 0:0 fun killers, like mentioned above).
As for the maps:
cz2: great map, especially as you get away from the usual ctf scheme, it adds tactical depth to the league.
mulch is just to spammy imo.
2mesa3 looks good to me, but possibly the liftbug might destroy the game, so better look for others.
Vidars and vidar2 are not fit for league play i think, just to open all in all.
Enclave is a map that, like cz2, follows a different concept so that you'll have to find unorthodox setups and tactics.
The other maps i don't know.
[dark]Stormbringer
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old.Carwash
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- #40
just cos a match ends 0:0 doesnt mean it was bad. Ive enjoyed matches where my clan has lost, but i and we played well.
As for ur suggestion for dif maps for dif divs, i dont agree. Max8 have just entered bwtfcl so we'll go in bottom div (*Shrug*) but i'd rather play new maps (except 2mesa3 cos it sucks), not the same ones over and over.
Vidars / Vidars2 works well, they had it in nguktfcl .. about 5 ppl moaned so they removed it... but then about 10000000000 ppl moaned about them removing it so they put it back in, and clan matches on it where fun. I dont expect it to get in... but i thought i'd suggest it just in case
As for ur suggestion for dif maps for dif divs, i dont agree. Max8 have just entered bwtfcl so we'll go in bottom div (*Shrug*) but i'd rather play new maps (except 2mesa3 cos it sucks), not the same ones over and over.
Vidars / Vidars2 works well, they had it in nguktfcl .. about 5 ppl moaned so they removed it... but then about 10000000000 ppl moaned about them removing it so they put it back in, and clan matches on it where fun. I dont expect it to get in... but i thought i'd suggest it just in case
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old.feigned innocence
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- #41
2mesa3 has probably the most "sticky" lifts in all of creation.
Clearly the offy are gonna double conc to the flag platform, but for def it stinks. So I'd add my vote to the "no" for it.
It was one of teh maps in the uktfcl cup a few weeks back anbd so I've played it a few times awith all sides complaining about it. First time we praccy'ed it, we couldn't believe that it was a finished map they were that bad...
Oppose 2k1 is the spammiest map I've played for ages. Given all players spawn with 4/4 grens...the fr - and often half the base also ! - is just one big explosion. Again, I'd vote that there are plenty of better maps...
Clearly the offy are gonna double conc to the flag platform, but for def it stinks. So I'd add my vote to the "no" for it.
It was one of teh maps in the uktfcl cup a few weeks back anbd so I've played it a few times awith all sides complaining about it. First time we praccy'ed it, we couldn't believe that it was a finished map they were that bad...
Oppose 2k1 is the spammiest map I've played for ages. Given all players spawn with 4/4 grens...the fr - and often half the base also ! - is just one big explosion. Again, I'd vote that there are plenty of better maps...
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Moön
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- #42
I find Vidars an interesting map, has some open area's that look fit for offence to take advantage of and dosnt really look as if you need to rely on bunny hoping to get things moving
As for 0-0 games yeh it could be fun but I'd much rather play a map better constructed to avoid 0-0 games .
Also looked at chimkey, looks very good to, defensive ares don't all seem to be right next to a spawn's as in some other maps so this might put the pressure on the defence a little more and make them work harder, imo this makes it a very playable map for both offy and defence as the offense may find killing defence more affective so it would work with out BH .
As for 0-0 games yeh it could be fun but I'd much rather play a map better constructed to avoid 0-0 games .
Also looked at chimkey, looks very good to, defensive ares don't all seem to be right next to a spawn's as in some other maps so this might put the pressure on the defence a little more and make them work harder, imo this makes it a very playable map for both offy and defence as the offense may find killing defence more affective so it would work with out BH .
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old.DeerHunter
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- #43
Some of us would gladly play cz2 all season
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eliminator
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- #44
I liked the look Roasted_b2, very well crafted map, seems to have gone down well as a choice for the uktfcl next season.
As for Vidars, that slippery bridge could prove to be an annoyance, but overall I think its good
As for Vidars, that slippery bridge could prove to be an annoyance, but overall I think its good
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Moön
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- #45
Ah the vidars slippery bridge, least you wont get any backtracking there eh
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eliminator
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- #46
heh, then it gets my vote of confidence
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old.Carwash
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- #47
if vidars is considerd, i'd say that vidars2 is better for league play. Altho i prefer vidars, vidars2 has some bug fixes, rooms closed off so the nme cant go thru and the bag in the base with grens in cant be gotten by the nme.
So..... use vidars, make it easier on the offeh
So..... use vidars, make it easier on the offeh
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old.<|SeeD|>Squall
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- #48
aha!
Letting each DIV decide the maps they want to play is a good idea ! It is true that a lot of unexperienced clans aren't familiar with many custom maps.
You must accept that some clans aren't as good as yours. It is not surprising to see new clans lose by more than 200 points if they are forced to play on maps they have never played on before. For me, one of the main reason why new clans die is coz they get bad results (not al clans die coz of bad results though - look at SeeD 8o]). You are all annoyed by the number of DIV 3 clans who die and abandon but you should try to think : "Why?"
This is my point of view !
And btw, Carwash, if you don't like DIV 3, you can have our place in DIV 2 8o)
Letting each DIV decide the maps they want to play is a good idea ! It is true that a lot of unexperienced clans aren't familiar with many custom maps.
You must accept that some clans aren't as good as yours. It is not surprising to see new clans lose by more than 200 points if they are forced to play on maps they have never played on before. For me, one of the main reason why new clans die is coz they get bad results (not al clans die coz of bad results though - look at SeeD 8o]). You are all annoyed by the number of DIV 3 clans who die and abandon but you should try to think : "Why?"
This is my point of view !
And btw, Carwash, if you don't like DIV 3, you can have our place in DIV 2 8o)
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Moön
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- #49
Yeh I agree as I'v been in clans starting up, getting people to practice new maps isnt easy.
Maybe div 3 should be an exception and use valve maps then any clan that gets to div2 should have had time and got well estblished enough to get to grips with costom maps .
Maybe div 3 should be an exception and use valve maps then any clan that gets to div2 should have had time and got well estblished enough to get to grips with costom maps .
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Mörgoth
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- #50
Bring back enclave!
Seriously, I loved that map. It was just so totally different from the usual CTF and discovering tactics for it was cool.
Also I'd like to see cz2 back in. Again it provides a different style of gameplay and there are lots of different tactics that can work on it, plus it can provide some excellent games without the standard "backtracking" or spam complaints (heck, CP3 was designed for spam).
cz2 and enclave!
Seriously, I loved that map. It was just so totally different from the usual CTF and discovering tactics for it was cool.
Also I'd like to see cz2 back in. Again it provides a different style of gameplay and there are lots of different tactics that can work on it, plus it can provide some excellent games without the standard "backtracking" or spam complaints (heck, CP3 was designed for spam
).cz2 and enclave!
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eliminator
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- #51
I agree that cz2 should be considered, its a break from ctf and games can be very tense at times, especially when your chasing (hobbling rather) that last minute point.
However, its up to the peeps to vote and nothing beats public opinion
However, its up to the peeps to vote and nothing beats public opinion
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old.P1nkie
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- #52
I can't wait to play all these l337 new maps.. oooh it sounds exciting
/me downloads
/me downloads
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old.[NKN]HHH
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- #53
Anyone got a link for Pandemonium plz? I wanna try that before filling in the map vote. Some interesting maps in that list, of the newer ones I found Roasted seems good, Terminal has some very good new ideas which may encourage more teamwork, whilst Defy was way too big. Will be interested to see what Pandemonium is like.