Scouts

[Genesis_of_Ak]

I want to come to the defence of scouts for a moment

Yes, we all know Infiltrators are uber in melee, and notwithstanding many people think that most of them have large ego's and dysfunctional personalities, they are utterly invaluable in RVR.

Anyway there's been a million posts on infiltrators so nuff said.

I was playing my friar and had 3 high level scouts firing off bows and then using glowing short swords when the mobs got in melee range. I got to say they kicked serious amounts of arse, looked super-cool when they were all firing in a line together, and killed 90% of all mobs before physical contact and lost very few hit points. It was fast and fun.

Its just a shame that people appear somewhat reluctant to group them. I think its a case of not understanding their value.

My next alt will be a scout for sure.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Originally posted by Genesis_of_Ak
Its just a shame that people appear somewhat reluctant to group them. I think its a case of not understanding their value.

My next alt will be a scout for sure.

a) Nah its commonsense.
b) Dont. You will regret it.

 

[BrassMonkey]

I like my scout...only because the archers look way cool firing their bows in this game. And i've had the most fun (and the most leechers from my guild) when we've had corpse summoners in keeps, i could stand there and fire away happily. Looked especially cool in Nottmoor when 3 of us were all in line firing away.

They're a pain in the arse to level but hell, i've done it to 50 so i never have to do it again! Hurrah!

 

[skile]

Scouts are good in 2 situations. Keepdefences and vs Epic-mobs. For example Dragon, Legion, Cear Sidi mobs etc. With buffs and a lot of people we almost always hit. And with EB and pala dmg-chant we do very good damage, not equal to a PBAOE-wizz tho. But I THINK we beat infils vs Epic-mobs.

The other situation is keepdefences, but you need to play smart ofcourse. But to be honest, I kicked some serious arse at Nottmoor last weekend. And with 1.60 Volley will make us one, if not the best in keepdefences, same goes for Rangers ofc.

1.60 Spec:

True Sight
Volley
Longshot
Aug dex III
Mastery of archery II
Aug quick II

etc.

50 Longbow
42 Shield
25 Thrust
30 Stealth

 

[old.Odysseus]

One thing I did notice when accidently pulling out my scout for Nottmoor defence the other day was that my damage could almost rival the nuke-damage my theurg does against well-balanced hibgroups with tons of resists.
However, these hibgroups always bring at least 6 sec pbt - so down the drain again

 

[Aule Valar]

try grouping with other scouts? every other class in the game has to group to be effective

was about 3 hunters assisting each other in the nottmoor battle, pbt is pretty useless when all arrows land within half a second of each other

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

With my scout I prefer to shoot Mids, cause their groups seem to have less pbt's going (still more than Albs though ). Hibs it is just no use allmost Dual pbt a lot of the time, and atleast 6 sec pbt.
Scouts do good damage when they hit with their 5.4 longbow, but I shoot every 3 seconds buffed (no spare points for MoA yet) so it is slower than the nukers. Crits never hit.

Scouts are okish to lvl solo if you are buffed. Crits will hit in pve (allmost never in rvr, as moving objects cannot be critted) so that makes a huge impact, but the series of small changes done by Mythic has nerfed the scout for rvr purposes into oblivion. Upcoming changes will not make a big impact, as Oaklief claims they will increase our hit rate (buffed scouts right now fumble/miss a lot) and maybe scouts are moved to hybrid melee table, from rogue, meaning we do more damage in combat.
I do not want to do close combat... I want my arrows to hit (or a % chance to pierce pbt based on longbow skill lvl)
I want see hidden out of the game... (or I want a more reasonable camo timer)

One nice touch for stealthers that is coming up is that pet lose track when you restealth, they should not hunt you endlessly if you manage to stealth.

But Mythic does not seem to care
Conclusion, scouts are ok in pve, suck in rvr.
Regards, Glottis

 

[tazzke]

Well i'm happy the xp nightmare is over with my scout (47-50 went pretty fast at Avalon if you make your own team and are lucky to get some pala's and a clerc....and me shooting the mobs like a madman... = no time to rest..no time to go to the toilet....just pull & kill...and some comedian theurg or mincer to fill up the chatwindow)

Solo RvR sounded like a dream...but as we all know, vs the uberbuffed sb zergs, a lonely scout can't do a thing.
If you are lucky he misses his PA...you might survive 3 hits (unbuffed of course...like i'm forced to play most of the time solo).

In keepdefence at Nottmoor for example...it was GREAT fun...getting some other archers to assist you, and be able to take everything out that comes even close

Scouts are fun...but they ain't the uberclass they once were.

 

[kinadold]

Scouts biggest problems is rp. The old scouts have huge amounts of rp, decent abilities, and is playabel. Playabel, since rp dosent
matter anymore, so you have the time to wait 1 hour for a kill.
The class is underpowered, but if played wise you will own any sb,
even the buffed ones. Most of those who play sbs aint good players, they rely on buffbots, and want fast rp. They will make
the mistakes necessary to kill them, out of simple greed. In old days a scout might goto gorge, a long trip, so you better make few mistakes. Today i see sbs run with end/sprint on from mtk to amg, to get into battle fast, and to get rp. They are not really stealthers, but more like a sort of farming class. Rp first, then skill, patience and tactics last. Mostly since their method gives more rp. Would be fun if there where some negative effects in the game for rvr deaths, would make the game more tactical.
Problem is if you still need 1 mill rp with a new scout, because that will be very tough to get, and keepdefenses a very little part
of the game.

Ra i would recommend

TS : Best groupability a scout get, and handy solo to scan milegates for enemies, or to track down a hurt opponent.

Ip : Dont rely on clerics to fire heals before your death, also excellent solo. Very expensive tho.

Purge : If you play in groups, this is very good ability.

FE & Moa : Nice abilities but considering you have to pay dex3
to get very expensive. Only recommend if you can afford them.

Longshoot/volley : Looks very nice, but we dont have them yet.
Volley looks good in many situations except zergs. 4 sec firing time to release 5 arrows seems pretty ok. Problem is that its gtaoe so might be less useful in groups. Still cabalist do nice in rvr
and these 2 abilities might give you some of that playstyle, but i think it will require a lot of practice to use them well.

Passives : Wont safe you from any sbs who jump you, not even at rr10. If a scout atm have to rely on dodger and MoB something
has went wrong in the fight. Most of them can be taken to lv1/2
if you can afford it, but it will not make you a tank. Xtra hp for 1 rp, 3 % modified magic resist for 1 rp, 6 xtra quick for 1 rp, all handy and might be worth it if you can afford.

And yes scouts are gimped atm, since our second most feared attack can be negated with purge, our bow dam against sc armor
is to low, crit is imposibel to get off, pbt, no melee power, no styles, a compromised stealth line, ....

Think twice before u make a scout, or atleast wait and hope some
improvements will come.

 

[Genesis_of_Ak]

Hmm...grim reading. Thanks for the input. Didn't realise Scouts were so gimped in RVR. Maybe I'll try my hand at a Sorc then, seeing as they will effectively replace minstrels when cavalry comes in. Cheers guys )

 

[old.Odysseus]

Cant replace minstrels.
Mach 5 speed is (imo) essential to a succesful raiding party.

(Other than that, minstrel is an amazing class that pack an enormous amount of utility - many are just so disgruntled that they dont see it.)

Only in zergs do the minstrels get slightly useless as the speed is no longer necessary and the damage / CC output is too low to make a difference.

 

[Vireb]

im lvling a scout as an alt for a laugh uber gimp spec of
highlander With
29 bow (+11 = 40 bow will still be ok damage)
44 slash
42 sheild
35 stealth

Will be interesting how it works out

 

[Rossco]

evan, let me clear something up for you, the three scouts you were grouped with last night were all melee scouts.....

thats about 40ish bow, 42 shield, 44ish thrust and stealth that isnt even worth mentioning.....

yep we did kickarse...but then thats because we all gave up stealth to do so.....melee scouts are absolutely blinding and if played well can do absolutely amazingly, but as i said.....no stealth so no sniping in rvr.....

mind you its damned funny to solo a zerker of the same level when yer a scout

cheers,

Rossco

:touch:

 

[skile]

I'd consider a melee scout a even more gimped version of a nerfed class, but that's just me. If you face a SB you are dependant on Critshot and normalshot (double critshot with buffs and the right RA's), even with 43 in thrust you will still loose big vs a SB.

 

[skile]

From what I understand you can target a player and press the button 5 times and therefor fire 5 arrows in the nearby area. To be short, if 2 SB's are on stick of eachother and you use TS u will hit them both with volley.

 

[Tranquil-]

That's wrong. Volley is ground targeted.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Originally posted by Aule Valar
try grouping with other scouts? every other class in the game has to group to be effective

was about 3 hunters assisting each other in the nottmoor battle, pbt is pretty useless when all arrows land within half a second of each other

Or you could just pull out ONE nuker and you would still have hits landing every 2 sec - 1.5 if fully buffed and RA'd.

My scouts average damage in RvR is about half that of my theurg - average over time.

Conclusion;
It takes 2 scouts to deliver the damageoutput of one nuker.
Ofc crits are not factored in here, but as scout TL Oakleif has pointed out with statistical evidence; in RvR they miss 80% of the time.

 

[kinadold]

--------------------evan, let me clear something up for you, the three scouts you were grouped with last night were all melee scouts.....

thats about 40ish bow, 42 shield, 44ish thrust and stealth that isnt even worth mentioning.....

yep we did kickarse...but then thats because we all gave up stealth to do so.....melee scouts are absolutely blinding and if played well can do absolutely amazingly, but as i said.....no stealth so no sniping in rvr.....

mind you its damned funny to solo a zerker of the same level when yer a scout

cheers,

Rossco
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A zerger hits me for 600+ a hit with 28 % slash resist, a buffed sb
hits me for around 250 each second. Dont any scouts think for
1 sec they can match that in melee. Yes you can melee some,
especially against non weaponspec classes or against hurt opponents. You can slam them and maybe get some shoots off,
but scouts cannot take heavy dualwielding targets, and might at best hope to block enough to survive 1 or 2-handed opponents long enough for you group to aid you.

 

[Jergiot]

scouts in grp work, just use fastest bow and do a /assist mainnuker macro. the thing is, why not just use another nuker that dont have to worry about bt/pbt or 3x misses and fumbles ^^

 

[old.Odysseus]

Last night when defending Hlidskialf, the following happened to me:

1) See an enemy standing still just outside the keep.
2) Pull critshot.
3) Fumble.
4) Pull a new critshot.
5) Fumble.
6) Target is now moving, pull a normal shot.
7) Fumble.
8) Pull a new shot.
9) Fire.
10) Your shot was absorbed by a magical barrier.

I have 45+3+11 bowskill. This is just plain ridiculous.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by old.Odysseus
Last night when defending Hlidskialf, the following happened to me:

1) See an enemy standing still just outside the keep.
2) Pull critshot.
3) Fumble.
4) Pull a new critshot.
5) Fumble.
6) Target is now moving, pull a normal shot.
7) Fumble.
8) Pull a new shot.
9) Fire.
10) Your shot was absorbed by a magical barrier.

I have 45+3+11 bowskill. This is just plain ridiculous.

Sounds like very bad luck. I haven't even had 2 fumbles in a row. A missing crit vs a SB is to much tho :\.

 

[gunner440]

lemme tell you slash owns as a scout

bon vs the sbs and has a higher dmg than thrust, i think maybe cos of the weapon stats? slower spd etc?

 

[Cowled]

Originally posted by Genesis_of_Ak
I want to come to the defence of scouts for a moment

Yes, we all know Infiltrators are uber in melee, and notwithstanding many people think that most of them have large ego's and dysfunctional personalities, they are utterly invaluable in RVR.

Anyway there's been a million posts on infiltrators so nuff said.

I was playing my friar and had 3 high level scouts firing off bows and then using glowing short swords when the mobs got in melee range. I got to say they kicked serious amounts of arse, looked super-cool when they were all firing in a line together, and killed 90% of all mobs before physical contact and lost very few hit points. It was fast and fun.

Its just a shame that people appear somewhat reluctant to group them. I think its a case of not understanding their value.

My next alt will be a scout for sure.

You saw "Angels"?

Yes, they are a great guild .. looks GREAT when they fight together!

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by gunZ-
lemme tell you slash owns as a scout

bon vs the sbs and has a higher dmg than thrust, i think maybe cos of the weapon stats? slower spd etc?

It does have a bonus vs SB's, but they will kill you within 4 hits (3 if unbuffed). I got hit for 600hp, and then 800hp last night (was trying to suicide, so did not care) by an SB.... Pretty screwed up damage coming from a class that should be weak.
Trying to hit a SB is impossible. 50% evade still means they will evade all hits really, and should you hit as a slash scout (35+11 slash) I do 60 damage... My only hope is slam (need several tries normally to hit) which gets purged. And even if they had used purge just before, crits will normally miss (on a stunned SB, great). And should crit hit, I still need to somehow get rid of another 800hp (600hp crit, slam damage, maybe get lucky and fire one more normal shot, 250hp).
I do not mind that there is a class that is meant to hunt another class. But I should win if I get the edge on them...
TS is useless. I cannot crit them when stealthed.... so I would have to shoot them, they just run away, or run up to me to gank me (evading most arrows on the way over). Only way to use TS is in a group...
Right now, SB's are tanks with stealth.
Regards, Glottis

 

[hint]

Originally posted by gunZ-
bon vs the sbs and has a higher dmg than thrust, i think maybe cos of the weapon stats? slower spd etc?

slash has bonuses against SB's because they use leather armour which is week to slash damage.

I recall a guildy (Hawkeye) playing his level 50 scout in a keep defence sometime over the last few days. and he anounced that he had fired 18 shots so far. all 18 missed. Now scouts are in efect stealthing nukers, so a little less power and increased miss rate is ok, but comeon! No Nuker gets 18 resists in a row. they are unlucky if they get 5 in a row.

Scouts are nasty to level up. cant get groups. (although as stated all scout groups can be deadly) Can't play in dungeons (Almost never any places where you can get more than two shots before the mob reaches you), If you spec in stealth at all then you will often strugle with yellows solo. Oh and then there is the expense of arrows. If the scout is your first char (mine was) then you will quickly run out of money. equiping chars is hard enough when you don't have a rich alt. but when most are strugling to keep their char equiped with blue armour and wepons scouts strugle to stay in green.

a year after starting my scout i am dusting her off and statring to play her again. in the bg. i have fully equiped her with yellow equipment (mostly kindly donated by guildys seeing as decent scout drops at level 24 are hard to get.) and yse when she works she is great! But the number of times i have had to cancle an attack because i unstealthed when i drew my bow (Assasins get to stay stealthed sometimes when they crit. we get to be unstealthed for 5-7 seconds before we crit") is unexceptable.
i attacked a yellow caster yesterday. The crit missed, the follow up hit the bt, and then the next two missed. by this time the zerg arived and killed them but if the zerg hadn't been there on quick cast and i would be on my way to interuption and death by nuke.

yes scouts a good. they are damn good when they work. but they dont work often enough. and i haven't even faces pbt yet. If it wernt for the fact my scout was my first char and thus i don't want to delete her she would have been consigned to the "Gone and fogoten" list along time ago.

 

[old.Odysseus]

Originally posted by hint
No Nuker gets 18 resists in a row. they are unlucky if they get 5 in a row.

Never had more than 2 in a row - and I do my fair bit of nuking I might add

 

[skile]

Originally posted by hint
slash has bonuses against SB's because they use leather armour which is week to slash damage.

I recall a guildy (Hawkeye) playing his level 50 scout in a keep defence sometime over the last few days. and he anounced that he had fired 18 shots so far. all 18 missed. Now scouts are in efect stealthing nukers, so a little less power and increased miss rate is ok, but comeon! No Nuker gets 18 resists in a row. they are unlucky if they get 5 in a row.

Scouts are nasty to level up. cant get groups. (although as stated all scout groups can be deadly) Can't play in dungeons (Almost never any places where you can get more than two shots before the mob reaches you), If you spec in stealth at all then you will often strugle with yellows solo. Oh and then there is the expense of arrows. If the scout is your first char (mine was) then you will quickly run out of money. equiping chars is hard enough when you don't have a rich alt. but when most are strugling to keep their char equiped with blue armour and wepons scouts strugle to stay in green.

a year after starting my scout i am dusting her off and statring to play her again. in the bg. i have fully equiped her with yellow equipment (mostly kindly donated by guildys seeing as decent scout drops at level 24 are hard to get.) and yse when she works she is great! But the number of times i have had to cancle an attack because i unstealthed when i drew my bow (Assasins get to stay stealthed sometimes when they crit. we get to be unstealthed for 5-7 seconds before we crit") is unexceptable.
i attacked a yellow caster yesterday. The crit missed, the follow up hit the bt, and then the next two missed. by this time the zerg arived and killed them but if the zerg hadn't been there on quick cast and i would be on my way to interuption and death by nuke.

yes scouts a good. they are damn good when they work. but they dont work often enough. and i haven't even faces pbt yet. If it wernt for the fact my scout was my first char and thus i don't want to delete her she would have been consigned to the "Gone and fogoten" list along time ago.

They are good in bg, assasins do not have See Hidden at that point.

 

[loxleyhood]

Woe! Woe unto thee who chose the scout! Yours is the path of hardship! Of toil! Of pain! We are those who knew greatness, only to be cruely taken and our abilities reduced below those of our comrades!

Hard it is to be a scout, and all those that remain are those who hope that Mythic will save us. Still hoping..........

 

[m4rk]

a scout in PvE compared to a scout in RvR is very different.

 

[seren]

Scouts Rock!

We get cool bows, shoot big arrows, wear crappy studded armour, never get into groups, piss off other people by shooting stuff as they pull it, get screwed over in every patch.

What else could you ask for?

I love it!