Scouts Vs other archer classes

[old.Odysseus]

The problem with all archers comes down to this:

Which would you rahter have (alb example):

Cleric or scout?
Theurg or scout?
Pala or scout?
etc .....

The archers classes simply do not have enough to offer to the group.

Sure they are capable of a lot of things and they are good interrupters with decent hp, but really .... there are so many things u could have in exchange.

That being said, I still take them into my own groups. I'd rather have 1 competent scout than a FG of morons with nil social skills.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Evoric_
Unlike rangers and huntres, scouts actually have a use in a good rvr group. They work as slightly weaker slam/guard tanks, with the ability to do damage at range when needed.

Hunter sending pet to interupt casters and shooting fast at another caster can't be a bad group ability .

 

[skile]

Originally posted by old.Filip


stealth ... and low melee

And low bow? Cause what u are doing in group is shooting (generally). And stealth? Stealth is good if u plan to sneak up to a healer/caster/mezzer to slam him.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by gunZ-
reason why most scouts r "shit" is that nearly all of them go 50 longbow and not even 20 melee skill.....

nowadays as a solo scout u need the melee skill as the longbow has become more of a secondary weapon if you solo (shadowblades + purge etc).

in group scouts ARE very useful if played correctly. NO NOT RUN IN AND MELEE U R NOT TANKS. scouts have bows, so should use them and bowdmg > any form of melee dmg plus u get uber range.

scenario 1. fg albs v fg hibs and scout popping arrows into drood = hibs dead if the rest of the group do their respective jobs.

but also it's not just a case of popping arrows everywhere, u have to find a good place to pop arrows from i.e get to high ground for example hillsides as theres some weird bug which gives u more range if you are on higher ground

oh and watch out for pets ^^

Doubt anyone goes 50 lb. Highest is 48. Most go 40-48 I think. I plan to go 50 LB tho, will make me more groupfriendly than with a meleespec.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by loxleyhood
I can't kill a hunter if they have a pet because they will use it to interupt me, and then scewer me with a spear.

I can't kill a ranger if they melee me because shield isn't much good vs. dual wield.

However as long as I can keep my distance I beat them most of the time.

There are always exceptions to these rules though.

I had a duel vs a ranger the other day. Went down like this. She spotted me, shot me once for ~340. I stealthed and rest, full HP again. I go around looking for her, find her, slam her. Critshot for ~610, normal for ~300. Ranger uses IP and we go in to melee. She stuns me in some way, trying to shoot, I use engage, and melee again. Here I am with 90% hp left and 1 IP. Ranger has about 10% hp left and 1 IP. I won in melee, but man. It was a very close fight. Just illustrates my theory, If she would have had purge up(or have it at all) I would have died. Remove purge or givz love to scouts .

 

[Aussie-]

and why would that be? higher weaponskill??
if you're gonna group you'll get alot more weaponskill.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by Aussie-
and why would that be? higher weaponskill??
if you're gonna group you'll get alot more weaponskill.

What were u answering to Aussie?
On my 50 bowspec post?

If so: Heh, every group seems to want a scout to shoot, interupt casters etc. What's recommended to spec then? Full Longbow RA's and Skill? Why not? What else is useful in a group? Slam? Yes I'll have that too.

Speccing 40 LB and good melee and then shoot all the time for less damage is very stupid .

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by skile


What were u answering to Aussie?
On my 50 bowspec post?

If so: Heh, every group seems to want a scout to shoot, interupt casters etc. What's recommended to spec then? Full Longbow RA's and Skill? Why not? What else is useful in a group? Slam? Yes I'll have that too.

Speccing 40 LB and good melee and then shoot all the time for less damage is very stupid .

The problem with your argument is that you can interupt a caster just as good with 1 LB spec as with 50+19

Edit: also a caster can quickcast while being shot at, it can NOT quickcast while being stunned

And no, stealthing up to a caster to slam them is NOT viable, ask any rvr group if they want stealthers to stealth

 

[gunner440]

Originally posted by skile
Speccing 40 LB and good melee and then shoot all the time for less damage is very stupid .

like 50less dmg or so lol...... and in grp ur buffed so 40lbow or 50+11+9lbow it wont matter.

 

[Eleasias]

its only about 50 dmg difference in CAP, but your weaponskill will be *much* higher = more dmg on shots, so speccing to 50 lb has its good point. buffed, my hero has about 1704 weaponskill with the legion sword (50+10 + rr) and when i swap to my spellcrafted hammer (only 5 lw, so 50+5+rr) the weaponskill is ~100 less which is a noticeable difference, so speccing to 50 is a good thing if you're going use bow 99.9% of the time. high weaponskill = teh pwn

 

[Aussie-]

don't listen to him

 

[Eleasias]

without me you wouldnt have slam gimp

 

[Aussie-]

 

[CBH_Music]

well as a ranger u only valid action against an suprise attack from either scout/hunter is to run out of bow range and stealth! vs scout this can still be done, but vs hunters this is just not possible anymore cause of insta pet. i got shot by a hunter in odins some days ago. he hit and i continued to run, came out of range (he hit me 3 times) and restealthed, turn around just to see his pet running for me (stealth bug) great :/ well i got pwned badly, and kinda as i should be (him haveing the element of suprise etc) but then he runs of kills pet, and rdy to find his next victim.

well the stealth bug is as i recall getting fixed ? but imo the pet has to be on some kinda timer like the run speed as hunters also have ?

also i realy like to see rangers get somekinda defensive spell style something - as off now we r the only archers class without, well cept for the run buff (but i see that as useless in 80% of the encounters).

 

[K0nah]

im going 40bow 42shield 36stealth 35thrust and tank RAs all the way. less dmg yes, more varience yes, more versatility yes. if u got less than 48-50stealth assasins dont need See Hidden to see u from close range, even with camo up.

only a delusional would spec bow to 50 thinking its grp friendly.

 

[Spix]

Originally posted by Gekul
I find it hard to believe a hunter is hitting you for more with his bow than you do. Most hunters spec highly in spear (39 or 44 base) and you have to remember the delay on their spears when considering how much they hit you for.
The hunter's insta-pet is part of it's balancing, and because it's insta it will mostly be unbuffed.

Spear speed for hunters, unless dorf is not an issue, most hunters have capped quick and are very close to capped swing speed. Its not like you have 5 sec swing speed with a 5 spd spear like trolls with a 2 hander.
A Kobold hunter 4.7spd spear is probably faster than a norse warriors 2.6 spd 1 hand hammer.

 

[Tranquil-]

:chortle: :great:

 

[skile]

Hunters do about the same dmg with their spear as when they shoot. And about the same speed on it as well. Might shoot like gimps. But pet also does ~80 dmg to you. So they Hit like a tank basically.

 

[skile]

Originally posted by gunZ-



like 50less dmg or so lol...... and in grp ur buffed so 40lbow or 50+11+9lbow it wont matter.

Heh u are surely missing the point, dunno if it's due to stupidity or another factor. Whats the point of speccing melee when u shoot? Wouldn't it be best to spec the shooting dmg as high as possible when u shoot, even if the dmg isnt a mayor difference, it's still a difference and it's useless to put it on melee or stealth, really. SINCE you SHOOT(!) .

 

[skile]

Originally posted by old.Niljindil


The problem with your argument is that you can interupt a caster just as good with 1 LB spec as with 50+19

Edit: also a caster can quickcast while being shot at, it can NOT quickcast while being stunned

And no, stealthing up to a caster to slam them is NOT viable, ask any rvr group if they want stealthers to stealth

Interupt caster for 200 dmg or 400-500 dmg? I'd go for choice nr2.

About sneaking up and slamming, depends on the situation really. If the other group manages to get mezz in first it might be good to disable the mayordmg-dealers, the casters. Or slam the Bard so he won't use group-purge.

 

[gunner440]

Originally posted by skile


Heh u are surely missing the point, dunno if it's due to stupidity or another factor. Whats the point of speccing melee when u shoot? Wouldn't it be best to spec the shooting dmg as high as possible when u shoot, even if the dmg isnt a mayor difference, it's still a difference and it's useless to put it on melee or stealth, really. SINCE you SHOOT(!) .

vs experienced groups especially hib groups you will get a tank or a pet on u before battle starts



going 50 lbow leaves about 20ish skill for melee

sacrificing a bit and going 43 for example

will give u 33 or 34 i think melee skill which is much more useful give up 7points which you can get back with sc and get decent melee, which is required esp if you plan to solo, and in grps will help a bit esp during those lame ass ooe fights :>

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by CBH_Music

also i realy like to see rangers get somekinda defensive spell style something - as off now we r the only archers class without, well cept for the run buff (but i see that as useless in 80% of the encounters).

Hmm...you have more offensive melee don't you? That's probably why you have less defensive skills. Anyway if Archers need fixing IMO it should be based arround Archery and not melee.

 

[jox]

...

There have been much whinning from scouts lately, must depend on the relicchange and the fact that most sbs took See Hidden when they lost IP...

So what to do?

First of all, a spec that is good on Belvedere dosent have to be good on Avalon for example. Excalibur have many sbs, so sbs seems to be your biggest problem...

If I would do a scout on Ex;

Highlander; +10 Str, +10 Con & +10 Qui
Slash 39(great for killing sbs), Bow 39, Shield 39(Yes, you miss the slam, but slam wount save you anyway) & Stealth 35.

So with sc;
Sword 50, Bow 50, Shield 50 and Stealth 46.
Then add a nice buffbot to this(40+ at least)

And never move alone, always group with at least one other stealther.

Problem solved.

:hat:

Edit: And in rr 3-4, with IP...the fun will start!

 

[ricky_latino]

spec low stealth and get TS

and oO jox, why not drop bow a bit more so u get slam?

 

[skile]

Originally posted by gunZ-


vs experienced groups especially hib groups you will get a tank or a pet on u before battle starts



going 50 lbow leaves about 20ish skill for melee

sacrificing a bit and going 43 for example

will give u 33 or 34 i think melee skill which is much more useful give up 7points which you can get back with sc and get decent melee, which is required esp if you plan to solo, and in grps will help a bit esp during those lame ass ooe fights :>

I have slam. Pet can be slammed, tank can be slammed. Really, from my groupexperience it consists of shooting, play a bit with your scout and see .

 

[Tranquil-]

Originally posted by Runolaz
Anyway if Archers need fixing IMO it should be based arround Archery and not melee.

There is possibly scout melee love inc. Atleast a dev is taking a closer look at it.