scout template

[Tranquil-]

I just want to look at the slash/thrust issue a bit..
As most know thrust is dex/str and slash is str only.
A scout will never be strong.. Is the slash bonus against leather/studded good enough to make it a better option than thrust with the higher dex a scout has? And more people seem to run around with slash resists than thrust resist.

(I heard that studded was neutral to slash, not sure if that is correct, anyone with the knowledge around?)

 

[old.Odysseus]

I'll try a little calc:

I have 212 dex and 116 str.

(212+116)/2 = 164

164/116 = 1.41

Effectively meaning that based on these raw and naive numbers, slash would have to have a bonus on leather of 41% compared to thrust for it to be worthwhile.

This is no where near accurate, but it can give a pointer of the magnitude we are looking for.

 

[K0nah]

Another thing to consider is most assasins will know thier vulnerability to slash and will have resistance items to it. So ur 15% bonus suddenly drops to 10 or 5 or less...

 

[Tranquil-]

If I read that correctly, that would mean that thrust was the better option then? Then why is everyone going for slash?

 

[Smartypants]

I'm not...

 

[old.Odysseus]

Im recommending slash based on the huge bonus it gets vs. leather. Further investigation must be conducted into the actual numbers before im convinced that it is a better option than thrust.

Another thing worth noticing is that slash is overall better in PvE, thus faster levelling.

 

[Tranquil-]

So what you are saying is that you recommend slash solely because the bonus vs leather? What about the example you made earlier? What about added slash resists on items?

"Im recommending slash based on the huge bonus it gets vs. leather. Further investigation must be conducted into the actual numbers before im convinced that it is a better option than thrust."

-- In the last sentence you say that tests has to be made to confirm that slash really is better than thrust? And you are not convinced. In the first sentence you say that you recommend slash.Why do you want confirmation about slash' effeciency when you already think it's better? I'm confused

 

[tilde]

Ever heard of marratokk? Guy with HUGE slash-resistant, i hit him for 110-150with styles (1hander, 3.8dps) i get around (-60) - (-90) penalty. What if i used thrust vs +15%armor, and he doesnt got any thrust-resists?
-----
Ok, this isnt calculated very well so it might differ some:
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U perform Amethyst blabla and hit for (+85) 150dmg (-90) <- yes, actually happends vs ppl with huge resists wearing chain.

this one with thrust:

U perform xxx style and hit for (+85) 276dmg (+35)
------

I have got +10 dmg at max vs other armortypes, i think cloth is 5% sensitive vs slash or summink, so i havent been able to make a judgement about this. But if this is true (which i believe it is, me cries fighting middies in chain, wearing my slash-sword )

Diffirence between diffirent kinds of styles? Well, as a scout u should go slash since u wont melee the tanks exactly, but u will fight mages and assassins pretty frequently = no negative resists (slash have many useful styles too, amethyst is i believe the most powerful one with no opening-style).

Perhaps i went a little too far away from topic, but i just wanted to make my point how much these +/- % vs armortype really does. Its scaring!

 

[old.Odies]

In my experience slash/thrust styles are rarely used, all my endurance is split between bow/slam and the occasional sprint, that really negates one of the major assets of slash which is the usefulness of amethyst slash vs the inferior thrust styles.

- Odies

 

[K0nah]

The Amy Slash style is one very good reason to go slash, since it rarely misses. The thrust styles are pretty poor, esp for anyone without EvadeIII and/or a shield.

Dont think there is a definitive answer that i can find with actual figures for which does best dmg for scouts. I did read somewhere that anti-slash items r real easy to get in Mid tho. One guy said his Berzerker had 27% slash resist...

Bottomline is if u get into a fight with an assasin u will either:

a) die without even getting a style off (if he lands the stun)
b) run like a nigger on drugs
c) slam & critshot him

So who cares what melee style u use?

Go with whichever does best dmg based on a scouts typical stats & I _think_ that will be thrust, since dmg is based 2:1 dex/str

 

[K0nah]

On a side note, can anyone tell me what the messages "You can't get a good shot yet!" & "You can't perform a critical, switching to regular shot!" are? I only see these in RvR..

And what I can do to avoid them plz?

 

[tilde]

tell your opponent to stay out of combat-mode

 

[belth]

Originally posted by tilde
tell your opponent to stay out of combat-mode

It's not combat mode actually, just running, meleeing or couple other things that prevent critting. The scout team lead posted the conditions for doing a critshot couple weeks back on vnboards.

 

[Tranquil-]

And the "You can't get a good shot yet!" is something I have experienced in PvE too, not sure why that happens, but reloading makes it work. Sounds like a bug..

 

[Smartypants]

I wonder if that "can't get a good shot yet" has to do with meleeing players gettng in your way, about the same as wizzie's bolts. At least that's the only time I've seen that message.

 

[Smartypants]

On the topic of scouts... I'm not sure about one thing, maybe you can enlighten me.

At some level I got an ability called "guard". I have been looking at the Classes of Camelot site and I can't find it listed there...

I know I select someone and click it to guard that player, but what excactly does that mean??

 

[Tranquil-]

In short it's an ability were you attempt to block attacks done to a player you select. You can guard a player, and try to block attacks done to him with your shield.

 

[Smartypants]

So it's a shield dependant ability?

 

[old.Odysseus]

Tranquil:

I recommend slash because i _assume_ it is better, even though the assassins may try and get slash-resists.

My second statement was that it should be investigated thoroughly to get _evídence_ that slash is better than thrust.

Hope this clarifies.

 

[K0nah]

Guard lets u use ur shield to cover someone elses ass.

So for instance in PvE if u have a Merc, or a Pally running heal chant in ur grp whose taking lots of dmg and being a mana sponge u can put guard on him and block some of the hits aimed at him. Scouts r real good at this role in fact.. Grps take note.. Our superior dex makes us da blockmeisters

In RvR u can do the same if u have a caster or some other class thats gonna get whacked asap in a battle in ur grp and maybe buy them some time. Guard only works if u have ur shield equipped at the time tho.

 

[Tranquil-]

Guard is also great against arrows in rvr, you get a base chance to block melee attacks that is 5% and 30% against arrows, unspecced. Each point specced in shield gives an additional 0.5% to both. So guard each other to prevent archers from nailing you..