Scout Spec

[Battusai]

yes you have to spec shield to block.....

but in the rangers case he has to spec two things to make ONE thing (dual whieled styles) to do some decent damage ,and the damage is then all he gets ,he does not get any defence out of it.

you spec weapon en shield so get damage and defence.

slamspeed ,smal shields swing faster,use lesser end and are perfectly fine for one on one fights.

the one thing i agree on atm is that the hunter pet should be made to not apear insta but be summond like any other pet

 

[Bullitt]

Ah but with CD do they not get weapon plus a little added offense, in that it's harder to block duel wield, and furthermore duel wield will pop any pbt's resulting in more dmg.

 

[TeaSpoon]

yes you have to spec shield to block.....

but in the rangers case he has to spec two things to make ONE thing (dual whieled styles) to do some decent damage ,and the damage is then all he gets ,he does not get any defence out of it.

The damage shields do for the end usage is not suitable for 1v1 fights. In 1v1 fights, except the slam, I would be suprised to see Scouts using it as the primary damage dealer

 

[Battusai]

you missing the point ,shield doesnt give you a way of doing damage ,its a way to avoid it,plus it has a anytime stun style.

and no ,dual wield doesnt break pbt the only way to do that is to hit faster then the 4 second pulse

 

[civy]

It would be nice if shield did avoid damage. Unfortunatly against DW the shield functions at 50%. A scouts evade also functions at 50%.

So Rangers get full evade with 2 weapons against a scout with 50% evade and 50% shield i.e 50% of their specced for defence.

Who do you think gets the better deal?

Then of course there is armour types. Best a scout can hope to spec is thrust to be nuetral against ranger armour. Of course this then makes hunters resistant to them. Having crush vulnerable armour is a great boon I don't think rangers fully appreciate.

 

[TeaSpoon]

you missing the point ,shield doesnt give you a way of doing damage ,its a way to avoid it,plus it has a anytime stun style.

you spec weapon en shield so get damage and defence.

?

We spec both just like you, but get a different side of it. Less damage on the weapon but a better defence, which as it has been stated is halfed by your offence

 

[Amuse]

The point is, id rather have 42 DW, 30 thust or something like that (prolly needs changing) than 42 shield and 30 thrust.

Agains DW, the block rate is halfed, and when you already dont block that good in RvR melee combat, you block shity agains DW/CD/LA

and slam in RvR usualy uses 50% of your end if not more becouse of evade and block

 

[Battusai]

It would be nice if shield did avoid damage. Unfortunatly against DW the shield functions at 50%. A scouts evade also functions at 50%.

So Rangers get full evade with 2 weapons against a scout with 50% evade and 50% shield i.e 50% of their specced for defence.

Who do you think gets the better deal?

Then of course there is armour types. Best a scout can hope to spec is thrust to be nuetral against ranger armour. Of course this then makes hunters resistant to them. Having crush vulnerable armour is a great boon I don't think rangers fully appreciate.

yes and twohand (spear) suffers a loss against shield...

and slam in RvR usualy uses 50% of your end if not more becouse of evade and block.

And who of these exept the scout has the abbility to block ?

 

[Shanaia]

yes and twohand (spear) suffers a loss against shield...

And who of these exept the scout has the abbility to block ?

You keep repeating the facts as they are on paper ... but you seem to ignore how it works "out there"

the spear that suffers a loss against shield is countered by the fact that most scouts won't be able to hurt the hunter much anyway with their 12 or 18 thrust ... and every hunter will wiggle around to get the pet behind the scout at least

and the "abbility to block" is laughable at best vs duelwielders... and I know I'm 50 shield and mob2 and I still block close to nothing against anything with more then one weapon.

 

[Amuse]

You keep repeating the facts as they are on paper ... but you seem to ignore how it works "out there"

the spear that suffers a loss against shield is countered by the fact that most scouts won't be able to hurt the hunter much anyway with their 12 or 18 thrust ... and every hunter will wiggle around to get the pet behind the scout at least

and the "abbility to block" is laughable at best vs duelwielders... and I know I'm 50 shield and mob2 and I still block close to nothing against anything with more then one weapon.

Just give up.. he just doesnt get it..

 

[TeaSpoon]

Just give up.. he just doesnt get it..

No, he doesn't.....

NERF SCOUTS!

 

[Aoln]

Archers are each all fine as a class ^^

 

[Battusai]

yes i do GET it.

if you want to talk about one class there ability making the others completely useless ,try zerkers.

zerk mode makes me lose all my defencive abbility's but i get a 50-100% crit on every swing.
blademasters however have tripplewield ,witch has the neat side effect of canceling out all crit hits therefor making zerk as useless as shield to a scout
Or mers with dirty tricks ,real hard to crit on something if you cant hit it....

but thats just the way this game is ,if all realms were the same it whould be kinda boring dont you think.

scouts dont need a new abbility ,they whould benifit greatly tho from making shield block dual wield as well as any other thing,and making the hunter pet on a cast timer instead of being insta (posibility to interupt...)

and if you say shield sucks,why spec it to 50 ?,spec 50 slash,get a anytime two style chain ,put rest in shield.
Its not the hunters fault you spec 18 thrust.

 

[Amuse]

yes i do GET it.

if you want to talk about one class there ability making the others completely useless ,try zerkers.

zerk mode makes me lose all my defencive abbility's but i get a 50-100% crit on every swing.
blademasters however have tripplewield ,witch has the neat side effect of canceling out all crit hits therefor making zerk as useless as shield to a scout
Or mers with dirty tricks ,real hard to crit on something if you cant hit it....

but thats just the way this game is ,if all realms were the same it whould be kinda boring dont you think.

scouts dont need a new abbility ,they whould benifit greatly tho from making shield block dual wield as well as any other thing,and making the hunter pet on a cast timer instead of being insta (posibility to interupt...)

and if you say shield sucks,why spec it to 50 ?,spec 50 slash,get a anytime two style chain ,put rest in shield.
Its not the hunters fault you spec 18 thrust.

Becouse shield is the ONLY, i say again ONLY! scouts difers from other archers with.. we need the shield to have a little chance of competing with the hunters/rangers. Face it, scouts needs a boost, some new skills, something other than a weapon skill..

 

[TeaSpoon]

Even Scouts with 50 slash hit for about the same a level 5 acolyte. And an Avalonian acolyte at that!

 

[Puppet]

Even Scouts with 50 slash hit for about the same a level 5 acolyte. And an Avalonian acolyte at that!

Scouts hit (with their mainhand) as hard as a ranger would. The difference however is that speccing 29 slash (FOR AMY!!1111) results in crappy damage in a same way a ranger with 29 blades would suck in melee (while holding a shield in the other one).

What is better, more offense (Celtic Dual on Ranger) or more defense (Shield on Scout) is a matter of personal opinion. In stealth-war more offense is most likely better; especially the way dualwielding works against stealthers-defense (evade/shield).

Shields have their uses, especially when it comes down to blocking other ones arrows. Shooting a scout (while he equips shield with decent spec) with arrows is impossible.

 

[Amuse]

Scouts hit (with their mainhand) as hard as a ranger would. The difference however is that speccing 29 slash (FOR AMY!!1111) results in crappy damage in a same way a ranger with 29 blades would suck in melee (while holding a shield in the other one).

What is better, more offense (Celtic Dual on Ranger) or more defense (Shield on Scout) is a matter of personal opinion. In stealth-war more offense is most likely better; especially the way dualwielding works against stealthers-defense (evade/shield).

Shields have their uses, especially when it comes down to blocking other ones arrows. Shooting a scout (while he equips shield with decent spec) with arrows is impossible.

Hiting a scout fully buffed, with 42 shield+13 is not hard, if the counterpart is buffed. i get hit with 1/4 arrows. And its not like we can do something while beeing shot, other than runing to the target. and when at the target, the CD of a ranger makes us block like a harpy on drugs. and the pet of a hunter does almost the same.

And the discussion did not only go aboute Shield/CS/spear, it was aboute scouts having less abiletys than a ranger/hunter. The way this discussion has evolved, proves my point.. We are discussion CD/spears/Shield and the hunter pet.

on top of those weapon skills, rangers has the pathfinding like, that contains self buffs and the nice little Run Speed Boost. The hunter has an Insta pet, some self buffs, charm, and insta pet.

There is no denying that scouts are laking in the Skills/Abiletys department

And id the roumors are true, when 1.69 comes here, we will only block aboute 1 oute of 10 arrows

 

[Shanaia]

Yeah I agree even if we'd agree that meleewise the 3 archers are "equal" the other two archers still have the advantage of speedbuff... the amount of times I was pwning a hunter and oh .. what a surprise I'm not owning him anymore since he's rocketing out.

Hib = magicrealm .. mid is meleerealm and alb is little of both .. how is it possible then that both the magic and the meleerealm rangers have magic and the middlerealm hasn't ... teh silly!

not fair!! I want a cookie now!

 

[Battusai]

as you guys stated before is virtualy every archer out there buffed by some drone at the fronteer/telekeep.

in this way it comes down to three things,insta speed,insta pet and damage add.
becouse when you have specline buffs your not going to wasted your time with those timer based you have as they in no way are beter then cleric/shaman/druid buffs.

as i sayd before the insta pet can be made on cast base,but they wont do that becouse the abbility has been there like this for ages and it whould get them the scorn of about every hunter out there.
damage add is pretty mutch the same thing.

if scouts get speed buff then it whould be a problem of where exactly would it be placed,you could lose shield but then scouts whould be even wors off then now concidering you then whould have only one blade to stand versus dual wield or twohand.
you could have both a "buff" line and shield but the problem is that with shield you have to spec minimum 42 to get some uttility,so that leaves even less points to spread.

they could make it a free abbility but that whould mean that the other two classes whould have it on a free basis to.
this whould mean they could drop the buff lines they now put points in ,and if you think things are bad now ,look at things when that hunter or ranger has even more points to spend on spear or celtic dual.

mythic has kinda worked themselfs into a corner with this one and it dont look like they are going to get a solution to this soon

ps:mid:melee realm........yeah right,from al three realms mid has the least classes capable of entering into melee combat.

albion:Armsman,Paladin,Mercenary,Reaver,Minstrel,Scout,Infiltrator,Friar = 8

Hibernia=Champion,Hero,Blademaster,Valewalker,Ranger,Nightshade,Warden,Bard = 8

Midgard=Warrior,Thane,Berzerker,Savage,Skald,Hunter,Shadowblade = 7

to put it even more boldly mid has least total of classes ingame ,alb has 14,hib 13,mid has 12

 

[Amuse]

as you guys stated before is virtualy every archer out there buffed by some drone at the fronteer/telekeep.

in this way it comes down to three things,insta speed,insta pet and damage add.
becouse when you have specline buffs your not going to wasted your time with those timer based you have as they in no way are beter then cleric/shaman/druid buffs.

as i sayd before the insta pet can be made on cast base,but they wont do that becouse the abbility has been there like this for ages and it whould get them the scorn of about every hunter out there.
damage add is pretty mutch the same thing.

if scouts get speed buff then it whould be a problem of where exactly would it be placed,you could lose shield but then scouts whould be even wors off then now concidering you then whould have only one blade to stand versus dual wield or twohand.
you could have both a "buff" line and shield but the problem is that with shield you have to spec minimum 42 to get some uttility,so that leaves even less points to spread.

they could make it a free abbility but that whould mean that the other two classes whould have it on a free basis to.
this whould mean they could drop the buff lines they now put points in ,and if you think things are bad now ,look at things when that hunter or ranger has even more points to spend on spear or celtic dual.

mythic has kinda worked themselfs into a corner with this one and it dont look like they are going to get a solution to this soon

ps:mid:melee realm........yeah right,from al three realms mid has the least classes capable of entering into melee combat.

albion:Armsman,Paladin,Mercenary,Reaver,Minstrel,Scout,Infiltrator,Friar = 8

Hibernia=Champion,Hero,Blademaster,Valewalker,Ranger,Nightshade,Warden,Bard = 8

Midgard=Warrior,Thane,Berzerker,Savage,Skald,Hunter,Shadowblade = 7

to put it even more boldly mid has least total of classes ingame ,alb has 14,hib 13,mid has 12

You have some good points, but as it is, hunters are the most powerfull archers becouse they get a 2h spear with powerfull styles, and dont haveto spec 2 lines to complete theyr melee skills.

But, you only hafto spec to 7 or so (cant remember) to get the first speed boost, and that speed boost is good enugh to escape dangerous situations

But at your point of mid having less classes than the other realm, thats a good thing for the mids, becouse that gives most of the classes more utilety.

Basics for a good group in alb:

Paladin with high shield
Shield Tank
Cleric
Mincer/sorc

Basics for a good group in mid:
Sheild tank
Shield tank
Healer

Basics for a good group in hib:
Sheild tank
Shield tank
druid


This is for both PvE and RvR, in RvR the shield tanks can be replaced by something else.

RvR group in alb (fotm)

Paladin (End Reg and guard for cleric)
Cleric (Heals and decent buffs)
Cleric (Heals and decent buffs)
Sorc (mana reg and mezzing)
Mincer (run speed and abla)
Damage Dealer (damage)
Damage Dealer (damage)
Damage Dealer (damage)

RvR group in mid (fotm)
Healer (healing, base buffs, mana reg, mezzing (INSTA AOE MEZZ!!) )
Shaman (Healing, good bufs, end reg, root, dot)
Skald (Damage, damage add, run speed
Damage Dealer (damage)
Damage Dealer (damage)
Damage Dealer (damage)
Damage Dealer (damage)
Damage Dealer (damage)

take my point?

 

[Shanaia]

Good point that ... where to put the speedbuff scouts should have

And basicly it would just gimp scouts more if they wouldn't get more specpoints and I think we all know that's not an option

[..]

ps:mid:melee realm........yeah right,from al three realms mid has the least classes capable of entering into melee combat.

albion:Armsman,Paladin,Mercenary,Reaver,Minstrel,Scout,Infiltrator,Friar = 8

Hibernia=Champion,Hero,Blademaster,Valewalker,Ranger,Nightshade,Warden,Bard = 8

Midgard=Warrior,Thane,Berzerker,Savage,Skald,Hunter,Shadowblade = 7

to put it even more boldly mid has least total of classes ingame ,alb has 14,hib 13,mid has 12

tbh you contradict yourself here ... you say mid is NOT the meleerealm because they have 1 less meleeclass?... as you say yourself they have 2 classes less so that calculation sort of kills itself doesn't it?

 

[Battusai]

I ment not melee realm in conparison with the other realms (why the roundup was there..),instead of compariing with own classes.

on lineup for grps,shaman heals are crap at best.

when ever they can they will run with three healers (aug,mend and pac spec).
and add a warrior to for same reason as paladin (without the end ofc )

 

[Bunnytwo]

Mythic could whack the speed buff wherever they felt like, for example, spec 30 points stealth get it, be no different that assassins getting climb etc.

Could have sworn thats how Mythic themselves presented Middies at the outset of the game Mid=melee realm.

 

[Amuse]

Mythic could whack the speed buff wherever they felt like, for example, spec 30 points stealth get it, be no different that assassins getting climb etc.

Could have sworn thats how Mythic themselves presented Middies at the outset of the game Mid=melee realm.

<starts looking for the old daoc manual> i think i read it there ^^

 

[Battusai]

guess thats becouse mid has most "fighter" classes (tanks),but in ways of melee we have acctualy less

albion:Armsman,Paladin,Mercenary,Reaver = 4
Hibernia:Champion,Hero,Blademaster,Valewalker (then again vw is a crap tank at best) = 4
Midgard:Warrior,Thane,Skald,Berserker,Savage = 5

 

[Bunnytwo]

guess thats becouse mid has most "fighter" classes (tanks),but in ways of melee we have acctualy less

albion:Armsman,Paladin,Mercenary,Reaver = 4
Hibernia:Champion,Hero,Blademaster,Valewalker (then again vw is a crap tank at best) = 4
Midgard:Warrior,Thane,Skald,Berserker,Savage = 5

Dunno just going by what Mythic said. Suppose depends on how you choose to distinguish between fighter and melee. Also depends on whether you decide which realm is the melee realm is based on numbers of classes or the power given to those classes. I would argue that the realm which mythic has chosen to give the strongest melee classes would be the melee realm regardless of the numbers of melee classes in any other realm.