Scout, Hunter or Ranger

[Wicoa]

Hello,

I have had many a massive arguement on this hot topic so I want this cleared up please.

What Class is better Scout, Ranger or Hunter?

Scouts get badly nurfed in the next patch WHY?

I think Hunters fire rounds like machine guns but lower dmg. Rangers get buffs and can load when hit apparently. Scouts take longer to load but hit harder and further, also they get shield ability.

So come on I dare you post here the reasons why you think one version is the best. Or are you neutral to this post, what ever your feelings air them out here. I am seriously worried about Scouts getting nurfed badly in 1.48.

Best Wishes
Wicoa
The Scout
Lords Of England

 

[old.HiredGoon]

i might be biased here, but scout is the best. why? because they dont need magic to support them.
and because they are albs ofc

 

[Wicoa]

Lo Lis, I teamed with you tonight, we took a fort back ;-)

 

[old.HiredGoon]

Yes

 

[old.Lonewolf]

Think ur living in fantasy land imo, Rangers far outclass Scouts due to the size of the buffs, I can get over 220 dex at lvl 32 with my ranger so god knows what it can get upto at lvl 50!!, upto the cap I suppose of 300, and they spec alot more tightly than scouts ever could so much better at performing what their class is suppose to, SNIPE!

As for shield for the Scout, geeeeeee let me think Scouts get 2x exp

So let me see they are speccing in bow? Thrust/slash? Stealth? OH AND SHIELD?!?

Hmmmm geeeee let me think for a mo, Tooooooo many things to spec in

I have been on the Catacombs and these are the stats I could come up with for a scout lvl 50, check it out:

Template 1
Dex:125
Str:65
Qui:83

Stealth:50
Bow:50
Thrust: 24
Shield:15

Ok gr8 sniper crap melee!

Template 2
Dex:125
Str:65
Qui:83

Stealth:30
Bow:50
Thrust:46
Shield:15

Gr8 bow and melee, crap shield so open to arrows and Stealth is Mediocre so can be seen more easily

Template 3
Dex:125
Str:65
Qui:83

Stealth:30
Bow:50
Thrust:30
Shield:38

Best allrounder except thrust is still low as is shield so still open to high lvl bow men

Now let me get this straight Bow dmg is determined by Dex and seeing as a Ranger gets 250+ dex at lvl 50 and Scout could get MAX Dex 160-80 with items possibly 200 ifI was being nice I cannot see how a Scout out dmgs a ranger!!?!?

If he does then the coding algorithms in the game need to be addressed, imo u haven't examined all the facts and identified stats and spec points

As a ranger I am not speccing in Melee, but maximising bow and path as much as I can and then the rest in Stealth, hence maximum buffs and maximum dmg

Come back to me and tell me now who does the most dmg pls!

Bring it on!!!

 

[old.|Hib|Rev]

Well, I really can't tell which archer class that is best cause I have only played a ranger up to a high lvl.
But let's compare damage caps then!
I know it doesnt say who is best but it would be interesting to see how much you cap at different lvls and different classes. Off course equipment has a lot to do with damage cap.

With a 15.5dps bow at 89% quality my damage cap seems to be 927. I'm a lvl 46 ranger with dexterity at aprox 229.

Would be interesting to see what Hunters and Scouts cap.

 

[old.HiredGoon]

Who says anything about speccing low in shield, btw?
Never been above lvl 6 scout (not my thing )

But the common template is shield high, melee low, since you usually havent a chance if you go in melee anyways. the shield offers very nice stun styles.

Stealth, gee wiz. only assassins need that high stealth. a sniper is in fact a sniper. snipers are meant to stand far away, hence the sniping. also, theres LOADS of stealth items. i have +10 atm, altho im capping, it seems, at +7

 

[Sazyasha]

Love my scout

Wouldn't trade it in for a ranger at any time, gosh, I'd be stuck with treehuggers as friends, imagine that...

 

[old.Lianuchta]

I thought all scouts specced shield high, weapons low. Who needs melee dmg when you can Slam stun your opponent for 20secs (or whatever the length is) and then just pop a few more arrows into him. But I am only a tree hugger...

 

[old.Lonewolf]

Yes but no one seems to realise that as a ranger u aren't gonna get no where near a scout in RvR so what good is that shield anyhow?

IMO ranger vs Scout its who gets the first shot off, that is the person who will win, as u can't pop ya shield on then ya bow and shoot then ya shield then ya bow then shoot its just impractical

Oh and u haven't told us ur dmg cap? I would love to know

 

[old.Pundit]

Doesn't really matter what archer you play - some level nine million assassin is going to gank you all day for pleasure anyway, and it doesn't matter how many buffs you have or haven't got.

I can't wait for the 1.50e patch (or whichever one it is) that reveals assassins straight away when they jump on greys, but I gather that See Hidden has made it practically impossible to play an archer with stealth anyway, so who knows? Unless I fancy standing in emain with the Bow of Flames there ain't a whole lot I can do at the moment, and I'm fed up to the back teeth of soloing my way through the levels because people won't group with you in RvE - the same people that beg for your support in RvR.

The big problem for archers is that their ranges are all messed up. As an archer you should be able to stand well back with other archers and volley fire arrows into an area, and perhaps move in closer for aimed shots at individuals - that's actually what archers did in rl (yes I know, this isn't rl).

This would actually be rather good, and would help break up the monotony of the battles in emain where it seems to be a question of who can mezz/stun fastest, and then chop enemy to pieces while they stand about helpless.

If there is a group of archers about, then opposing forces are going to have to think about having shield bearers among the fighters, helping to protect them from the arrows falling from the sky.

As it stands at the moment, an archer can stand back and get taken down by an assassin, or move up close and get mezzed and meleed in seconds.

Alternatively you could just grab your bow and arrows and wander over to the the enemies' low level frontier training areas and gank greys all day until the high level guys come and kill you, then release and come back agin half an hour later for more - some people seem to be making a career out of that, so if that flicks your switch, go for it.

IMO stealth should only be useable by assassins/thieves, and they should be instantly revealed when they use it to kill low level players.

Archers should get a disguise/camouflage capability (shape-shifting?), but again should be revealed when they strike.

Bow ranges should be increased; all realms should have the same range capability; volley and camouflage/shape-shifting should be in, and stealth can go. Oh, and pets can go too - total waste of space in RvR, and not all that helpful in RvE as you can't get one (assuming you can even find one), that is remotely close to your own level anyway.

If the Bow of Flames is really bugged then it could be fixed in a patch in seconds - I'd love to know why it hasn't.

Which one to play? Up to your style really, and depends on whether you are a power-player or a roleplayer (or both).

Hunters can melee a bit and will last longer in a stand-up fight with a mob than the others, and can wreak havoc among casters if they could get close enough to strike, but the reality is that you get mezzed and chopped to pieces.

Scouts get the best bow range, but are hopeless in melee unless you go down the shield route, and if you are the slightest bit of a roleplayer that just isn't an option.

Rangers seem to be the best balanced, with good buffs and no dumb pet needed to augment their skills (or lack of).

Resign yourself to the fact that most people are too ignorant to group with you in RvE - so most of your career is going to be solo - that's passable up to 20 with kill tasks, and a royal pain afterwards - unless you have two accounts, and a healer bot to buff you as you level.

You then need to decide on a realm. Midgard is the harshest looking environment, Albion is the longest by miles but has a vast array of scenery changes that make it very worthwhile, and Hibernia is incredibly green.

From the point of view of levelling, Hibernia is definitely the most aggravating, as you have to watch the faction of everything you kill otherwise you can get to the point of having practically everything around aggroing on you as soon as you leave a town. That means you often have to forego some kill tasks as you can't afford to kill the mob you are told to kill, so you either then wait for the timer to run out, or go and get yourself killed and try for another task.

At the moment the single most frustrating thing about Europe is that there is no roleplay server, so all there is to do is powerplay all the time in the levelling game.

Until the patch that introduces the low-level RvR areas arrives, you don't even get the option of messing about for fun in the big boy RvR area until you are at least level 40, as there are so many 40+ characters around now it is practically instant death to go there.

That said, if this is the class you want to play, then go for it - it's great fun if you want to be doing it, but none at all if you aren't very determined to make it succeed. You have to work hard at an archer (and an assassin) - most of the other classes are easy in comparison simply because they can get groups as they level.

If you want to be a rogue and get groups, I believe a minstrel with its bubble is very popular.

 

[old.Quiblet]

Scout without slam is gimped - simple as that really
A ranger should never kill a scout even if the ranger gets in first shot. Scouts have shield - scouts have engage - no arrow will touch them. True rangers get their lovely buffs but remember you do have to destealth to cast them which can be very dangerous. I have bumped into many a ranger rebuffing and quickly despatched of it.Never take bow to 50 - anything over 44/45 is a waste of spec points as difference in damage is negligible. Never take stealth above 39 - easy to get it to 50 solely using items never mind realm rank. etc

 

[old.Kelmon]

I love my hunter, simple as that.

I suggest you pick a character that think will be fun to play, no 'because it's best'. None of the archer classes are good, and in the future patches are likely to get worse still. Go play a Shadowblade/Infiltrator/Nightshade if you want to sneak aroun and kill people.

Rangers are good with bows, but bad in melee.
Scouts are great with bows, okay in melee.
Hunters are okay with bows, good in melee.

The scout's shieldslam is nasty, if they manage to land it on you. Once they know you're around you can forget about shooting them, as the shield will block almost all arrows after the first. Shield is nice, but keep in mind that Styles are unblockable, unparryable. You can only hope they miss to begin with..

As for high dex/str/qui.. the higher the better. At 38 my hunter has Dex 215, Str 228 and Qui 181 and rising. (Buffed, of course, but who doesn't go around unbuffed?

 

[old.Quiblet]

Aye archers get seriously nerfed in 1.50 with the See Hidden Ability so they will become pretty useless as assassins can basically clear them as see as day when stealthed at the same range as if non stealthed.
Dunno why Im postin on Prydwen board but hey what the hell

 

[Wicoa]

Issue with groups. I am a scout on Albion and I have had a group for every level since time began really. I did use tasks cause they were the best xp 3-20. I have only ever had a group refuse me once cause I was an archer and they were newbies at the time.

I find groups incredibly easy to get into and have made alot of friends. I think people realise our use in rvr really and its not as if we are useless we do alot of damage even on high ranked mobs (tho we do miss sometimes).

I think some community spirits in other realms is a bit nasty but I don't know for sure.

Hmm I am worried about us getting spotted by a Night Shade or Shadow Blade but I say this to solve the issue. When you go rvr take a fellow stealth detecter with you, there are enough of them in my realm to go in a small group or just together. That will stop us getting blatantly murdered and a nice battle might even ensue.

I think everypoint made here so far has been quite good, keep them coming.

Cheers
Wicoa

 

[old.Quiblet]

aye taking an assassin friend out on ventures would be nice but it does rather defeat the point of say the "scout". Scouts etc are supposed to be soloing types but the see hidden ability means that scout types are no longer able to do this. Plus a large portion of the people who created scouts was not to RP farm but to actually as their name suggests - to scout - watch enemy movements, spy on them etc. This job has been taken over now by assassin classes - yes - assassins are used to scout out enemy movements. Kinda defeats the whole name of the scout. Archers will be made to group in RvR and basically at the end of the day will become similar to a caster except maybe lasts two seconds longer and does hardly the same amount of damage. Imo I do not believe the stealth system is wrong as it is - just perhaps a slighter greater detection is needed not this silly see hidden business that will be introduced soon. I know that all my archer types will be used to RvR solely in battlegrounds since the See Hidden ability will not be available then. So at the end of the day to say which is better: scout, hunter, ranger is irrelevant since soon they all will be nerfed so horrendously. If you look at the herald these days you will find less and less archer types being in the top25 weekly RP getters. So when I get back to playing...Ill be lvllin my lovely smite cleric up rather than my scout.

And with groups Wicou when I try and group with my scout on alb/excal it is often a frustrating experience. But then again 60%+ of that server are morons - sigh

 

[Wicoa]

As you have guessed I am with Albion Prydwen. I totally agree with you that we should be able to scout as that is our official name, perhaps in later patches they will sort out this issue. However I will not give up on my scout, I might start a minstrel tho but they will be spotted too anyhow but their role can be much more diverse.

Also all classes get slightly gimped at some point. I am prepared to take he rough with the smooth.

 

[Gef]

I kinda agree with the grouping thing, it can be hard at times to get a group. Problem with Scouts (and i'm guessing other archer classes too?) is they tend to miss high level mobs ALOT when firing into a melee - this will be fixed in the next patch and the whole 'less accurate in melee' thing will go.

I was in a great group the other day, anyone who plays in Alb and is lvl 32+ will know the pygmies in Lyoness are a fantastic way to level between 32 - 40. I was in a group with 4 Scouts, Mage, Cleric, Minstrel and a Mercenary (what no heavy armor??) we rocked. Minstrel mez em as they come down the hill and we just pummel em with arrows and nukes one at a time. They never even had a chance to hit us. The Merc and Cleric were getting bored after a while.

It seems to be getting easier as I get higher in levels to find groups as a Scout, maybe its because people realise the value of having a versitile ranged damage dealer. Most people I have grouped with dont realise that engage is almost as good as a decent mez. I can sit there keeping a mob busy blocking its every shot until the rest of the group has dealt with any other mobs.

I agree about this 'see hidden' thing though, annoying, but we will have to see how it pans out.

The overall question which to choose, imo they are all the same (or near enough) just pick the realm you think you will fit in with the best.

Oh and for all that didnt know already the Bow of Flames and some dagger have been fixed, anyone know what the dagger is any why it was bugged?.

 

[kr0n]

First of all, scout has shield spec. Slam 0wnz. About assassins. Get +con +hits items and you cant get oneshotted, then just slam the stabber, and back away, crit his head off. simple. Other archers. Hit engage,go close, Slam, back of, crit his head off. Simple

Scout > Archers if well played.

 

[old.Quiblet]

or post 1.50
assassin attacks you - you slam but barely survive whilst assassin has informed all his nearby friends that there is a sniper about and they have actually had you targetted since the assassin attacked you and they all come gank you. Hehe it will be fun when people cant RP farm anymore

 

[old.Kladen]

all are equal i reckon im a paladin and i also have a ranger. rangers may seem good coz of the buffs. but they arent better than scouts. first scouts have better range. second if they get hit first they can engage and move back then gank em with bow. hunters are not very good snipers compared to them. if you wanna kill stuff go for scout. because the damn hunters and ranger always run off.

ranger/hunter are better at getting out of tough situation with speed buff. hunters a good PvE character too.

They are all equal if u ask me and i dont think urll be soloing many archers as urll be stealthed anyway.

archers just suck ass as they cant kill sheild users.

if u wanan go rvr be a assaine they always kill me . be a assaine but leveling will be tough.

 

[old.Mitsu]

All 3 archers are viable imo. Pick the one in the realm you like.

And lonewolf - scouts are supposed to hit the hardest because they have the slowest bows

I'm enjoying my scout very much. Still very young but a blast

 

[old.Slie]

This is a simple one to answer.

Scouts own.

Shield stun makes them deadly in melee, stun, step back, plug away. They deal the HIGHEST dmge with a bow, they far outdamage a hunter, and also outdmge a ranger. Scouts can crit for more than 1000dmge at high lvls.

With realm abilities coming soon, scouts can speed up their draw times with Master of Dex and Master of Archery, and with a DF bow (without the realm abilities) they can STILL get fast draw times (cant remember which long bow it is).

Scouts get evade III I think, and can also engage to block (only useful for bolts or arrows though, as most people use styles in hand to hand).

Next in line are the rangers, yes they can use magic, and they also have a looong range on their bows. They can also hit hard, though not as hard as scouts - so despite having their dex buffs, scouts will still hit harder

Rangers have dual wield which can be useful at high lvls when proc's come into play =)

Hunters are the gimp class of the archers, as they can only use composite bows. They have the spear which is DEADLY, however consider they are the slowest weapons in the game, and then vs an assassin with evade VI or an enemy archer (evade III)...and spear can often simply be negated.

Someone mentioned hunters are good at melee. Nope, they are far from good. Hunters get owned in melee by rangers and scouts, simply because of evade I and no other defensive skills. We don't dodge enuff hits....a dual wielding ranger will kick the crap out of an equal level hunter unless the Hunter is VERY lucky.

Hunters have pets, but the pets suck. Firstly, its often nigh on impossible to find a pet (try RvRing in the alb frontier and you'll know what I mean), the pets are also like a beacon to any aware player which screams "STEALTHER HERE!"...as they simply dont move like normal animals. Added to this, when in enemy territoriy and solo....if realm guards see your pet, they will KOS, and regardless if you're stealthed, they will come after you and beat you down.


Hunters also have the beastcraft line, however with epic armour the self AF buff is negated, and even with the dex buff, we still cant hit as hard as our alb/hibby counterparts.



So there ya have it.......Scout all the way, then Rangers, and finally the hunter.

With regard to stealth, speccing it high is a simple waste of points. At 24 stealth, realm guards will 99% of the time run over you without seeing you. At lvl 50 my stealth will be base 27, +12 with items and realm rank bonus, giving me a total of 39.

No matter how high your stealth is, assassins will always see you first, and with 1.50 and see hidden coming, any assassin with RR2 will see you as far as the clipping plane, like you had no stealth. Spec bow high (no more than 45 as someone else said, I stopped at 42), and also get your weapon skill high - in group RvR you won't ALWAYS be using ur bow.

So there ya have it, mho

 

[old.Slie]

Oh and one last thing.......archers aren't "useless" in RvR with the new see hidden, it just means we cannot solo RvR as easily.

The main tip.......dont wear guild cloaks, you might as well be lit up if you wear one

 

[old.Wels]

Well if I would do a scout I would do something like

36 Stealth - can get to 50 easily (Items +rp)
16 Thurst - leftovers
42 Shield - SLAM, 9 sec stun
50 Long Bow - for nice damage (yes it does more damage with items that raise it over 50)

the only other one I could imagine do make is
36 Stealth
29 Slash - Amethyst (actually 30, since you got 33 points leftover)
42 Shield
43 LB

 

[old.Slie]

*doh* 36 stealth is pointless, use those points to raise thrust.

As for natural bow of 50, tests on the US servers have shown that the difference between natural bow of 50 plus items and 39 bow plus items is AS LITTLE as 5% (personally I think its slightly more).

With 1.50, archers won't be JUST archers....and in a fast paced RvR battle simply there isn't always enough time to shoot off arrows - its a case of charging in with weapons drawn.

Anyone planning in steath/bow specced archers - think again guys, in 1.50 you will get owned on the battlefield.

 

[old.Mitsu]

That last example Wels is what I'm aiming for.
I'm not really into the lone sniper scout so having a little more melee is great

And unless ppl walk over you they aren't gonna see you with 30's stealth.

 

[old.Mitsu]

About the assasins seeing us.
/assist works with see hidden so it only takes an infiltrator and a couple of ranged attackers to ruin the day for sb/ns
Pop a shot and they unstealth... then kill.

 

[Wicoa]

Mitsu thats very intelligent advice.

 

[Oloren]

I find this to be a nice Scout spec:
39 stealth
26 thrust
33 shield
50 long bow
any feed back apreciated