Scientist's making up as they go along?

[Shagrat]

what a surprise..

After the debacle with the fudged global warming figures now this:

BBC News - Low-lying Pacific islands 'growing not sinking'

 

[CorNokZ]

Micronesia?

lmao!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well ofcourse they're making it up as they go along, the problem comes with people who have absolute faith in current science(read most of humans).

It's just a guess, everything, a guess.

So if someone tells you that something is bad for you, you can tell em to wait 10 years and have the discussion then

Hell, smoking decreases alzheimers chance according to a study.

 

[Raven]

They will keep making it up as they go along as long as there is a funding teat for them to suck on.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Making things up? Check.
Having a mass support? Checki.
Making money out of it? Check.
Asking people to trust in what you say is true? Check.

Starting to sound like something else i know...can't put my finger on it...

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

This thread greatly demonstrates its much easier to shoot ideas down than to come up with them.

Of course people get it wrong at times. Of course sometimes its just best/educated guesses

 

[old.Tohtori]

educated guesses

I've always had a problem with that term, dunno why, it just seems wrong.

It sounds like you've read the statistics, did the study, worked the numbers and then throw a dart at a wall filled with post-its

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

It sounds like you've read the statistics, did the study, worked the numbers and then throw a dart at a wall filled with post-its

Sometimes thats all you can do

 

[Genedril]

Well ofcourse they're making it up as they go along, the problem comes with people who have absolute faith in current science(read most of humans).

It's just a guess, everything, a guess.

So if someone tells you that something is bad for you, you can tell em to wait 10 years and have the discussion then

Hell, smoking decreases alzheimers chance according to a study.

Science isn't about guesses. It's weighing the evidence and trying to theorise what the most rational explaination is. Sometimes it's right and the theory is accepted and sometimes it's wrong.

Absolute faith (word's a give away) in scientific theories is no different to absolute faith in religion X. The difference is that scientific theories should be open to re-evaluation and testing and relgion doesn't really go in for that.


Didn't know about alzheimers.... I'm planning to stop tomorrow as well and my memory is already shot to bits.

 

[kiliarien]

This thread greatly demonstrates its much easier to shoot ideas down than to come up with them.

Well said. Particularly with this subject. Such a complex amount of calculations required here too as the global weather/climate/current processes are unpredictable to say the least. And just to clear things up, this is just talking about accumulation/erosion of land mass. Global warming will stick screw those islands with current projections.

 

[Agrigo]

Well said. Particularly with this subject. Such a complex amount of calculations required here too as the global weather/climate/current processes are unpredictable to say the least. And just to clear things up, this is just talking about accumulation/erosion of land mass. Global warming will stick screw those islands with current projections.

my god ... your alive!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Science isn't about guesses. It's weighing the evidence and trying to theorise what the most rational explaination is. Sometimes it's right and the theory is accepted and sometimes it's wrong.

Absolute faith (word's a give away) in scientific theories is no different to absolute faith in religion X. The difference is that scientific theories should be open to re-evaluation and testing and relgion doesn't really go in for that.

I've thought about religion not going for re-evaluation lately, as it's the usual reply from non-religion crew, but it has changec if you think about it. In the past, it was basically believe or die, where the teachings "clearly" stated that all herecy must be eradicated(one example there).

These days it's not the same religion it was, and in the future i doubt it'll be the same it's now(most likely more towards a lifestyle then religion in the future), so it has evolved, just not in so many areas as science. Religion, you could say, has basic principles such as a deity and faith that are cornerstones, but many of the lesser areas have been re-visited.

Science has had it's fair share of exploits and other areas in the past too, and even today a lot of tech is kept under lock&key due to government(or such) pressure. It's not that black&white in my opinion, between science, religion or home gardening.

On science not being about guesses, well, you have to talk that over with Roo

EDIT: Oh and no, don't want to change this to another religion/bsh/no bash/etc thread(will try to avoid baits), just making a point towards the point given

 

[BloodOmen]

I did some scientific experiments myself and discovered the following:


1. The sun is actually made of cheesey wotsits.

2. Oil is satans sticky love piss.

3. Most scientists got their degree online.

4. If you eat walkers crisps while actually walking you gain super powers.

5. Cilla Black was the second shooter behind the grassy knoll.

6. I'm sitting here naked at the moment.

7. Tony Blair is actually made from plastic and his wife is a genetic experiment gone wrong.

8. The sky is actually getting lower, soon we will all be crushed to death by clouds.

9. Boris Johnson is actually an alien (come on... what human could have such hair)

10. I've ran out of ideas and i'm watching Have I got News for You.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And those all things are true until someone proves otherwise?

Let's analyze!

1. The sun is actually made of cheesey wotsits.

Could be true, we don't have the tech to urrow into the core of the sun. Until we do, it very well could be.

2. Oil is satans sticky love piss.

This i think is proven wrong, oil being decaying fauna(if i remember correctly).

3. Most scientists got their degree online.

Would have to make a study into it, but even if there was a majority of online born scientists, wouldn't they have to learn some of the stuff somewhere?

4. If you eat walkers crisps while actually walking you gain super powers.

Super powers aren't defined here, so this statement can be true. We would have to classify super powers and see if the parameters could be achieved.

5. Cilla Black was the second shooter behind the grassy knoll.

We would have to investigate her global position here, not to mention the possibility of her owning time travel technology. Just to be sure.

6. I'm sitting here naked at the moment.

Pictures would prove this one way or other.

7. Tony Blair is actually made from plastic and his wife is a genetic experiment gone wrong.

This would have to be medically tested, but i believe they ahve both gone through medical tests enough for something to come up. Ofcourse, the records could've been wiped clean, but as younger children they wouldn't have had such power.

8. The sky is actually getting lower, soon we will all be crushed to death by clouds.

I doubt anyone has actually calculated the atmospheres range variation, interesting theory to say the least. We couldn't be crushed by clouds though, but most likely would suffocate before the clouds reached us. Or electrocuted. Or worse.

9. Boris Johnson is actually an alien (come on... what human could have such hair)

Agin the medical thing would have to come to play. Ofcourse it's a possibility that aliens can mask all this and fake his whole life on earth. Would require proof that he is one i think.

10. I've ran out of ideas and i'm watching Have I got News for You.

This, as you've stated that you indeed have, is the only thing we can without doubt say is true. Unless you are lying at this time and without any observation tools of the time this happened we can't really deny or confirm it.

EDIT: man i loved that

 

[Genedril]

And those all things are true until someone proves otherwise?

Unfortunately that's not how science works - you have the theory stage then the Proof of Concept and the loads of people trying to diss your theory (especially if it is something that is contrary to one of theirs).

So it's more like a drunken night out where;

One bloke says I've got the biggest mobile phone (how's that for a euphemism).
Everyone else disagrees because theirs is the largest.
People whip out the phones and measure them.
People argue about volume as opposed to length.
People argue about PDA's as opposed to mobile phones and whether the length is when it has been extended or not.
Drunk people argue a lot more about if heat effects volume and some other gumpf.
Original person is proved or disproved - or - Original person is proved to be correct at this time but as 2 people didn't get their phones out it cannot be definitive proof and as such can (and will) be re-visited ad infinitum.

The theory is only retained as a valid theory if it passes to the point where it cannot be disproved know all other factors being equal (So Sun = Big cheesey wotsit cannot be true due to what people know about mass / gravity etc) at this point and in reality can and probably will be revisited.

BTW I'd just like to point out that I don't think Science has an answer for everything.

 

[BloodOmen]

There is no point in using the old adage of 'it is a conspiracy' to hide your intellectual ignorance. Just accept what they say because these are educated people who know what they are doing - your views are an arrogant and ostentatious display of disrespect towards people who know far more than you do.

GTFO dorimor.

 

[Genedril]

Who said what was a conspiracy?

This could be a case for Mulder and Sculllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeee.

As some Welsh bint once sang.

 

[Billargh]

2. Oil is satans sticky love piss.

This i think is proven wrong, oil being decaying fauna(if i remember correctly).

What's to say that ISN'T what the devil urinates?

 

[old.Tohtori]

What's to say that ISN'T what the devil urinates?

True, true. If devil is real, decomposition might be caused by the piss.

 

[Job]

It's pathetically simplistic, but to get a grant these days you have to put 'possibly casued by global warming' in the request somewhere, exactly the same as the token black man/indian/chinese/wheelchair user.

The first set of Islands to try this one were actually sinking because the tectonic plate under them was lowering, but the shit stuck and now everyone is convinced C02 is causing them to leave the Islands (they even report they have allready left, much to the amusement of the people still living there).

You only have to look at the language used in the arguments to realise what a pile of shit the whole thing is.
Oh and that 'vast majority of scientists' bolaks...science fact isn't decided by a vote!
The vast majority of scientists used to believe the planets were held in place by crystal spheres and travel to them was riduculed because you would have to smash through these obstacles.
And the final nail in the coffin is that not one single ounce of anything has ever been done by ANYONE to address this made up problem.

 

[dub]

people dismissing science while using the internet , do i have to mention the irony or am i getting trolled ?

 

[old.Tohtori]

people dismissing science while using the internet , do i have to mention the irony or am i getting trolled ?

Well, technology doesn't equal science on all accounts, even so no one is dismissing science.

 

[Jeros]

Oh no a theory might be wrong therefore scientists are making stuff up!

Chances are you all would probably not be alive or indeed still alive where it not for the tireless work of scientists. You know nice things like medicine, gene therapy, fertility, cancer treatment etc etc etc.

Oh and be nice to the geologists, without them you would have no petrol for your car, or nice shiny gems for your ladys ring.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Chances are you all would probably not be alive or indeed still alive where it not for the tireless work of scientists. You know nice things like medicine, gene therapy, fertility, cancer treatment etc etc etc.

Oh noes! Without the church the UK never would've become such a great britain and without the nazis none of us would be alive because time would've changed and our parents wouldn't have met!

 

[Septima]

Advancements in science come from theories based on the facts available at the time they make it. All the theories are proven right until new data is provided. That's how science works and it's call empiricism.
No good scientist ever will say that he got the only truth. Truth or right it's not a science vocabulary, it's a moral/religious concept and have no place in science.

Global warming is a scientific issue with not really well known mechanisms but the possible upcoming is so terrible that a lot of studies and effort should be put on it: better safe than sorry. The problem was that media, backed up by some green ideologists abused it to transform it in a mass media show. And what happens when media and regular folks take a look in a world and community with its own rules and language as science is? Misunderstood and defiance!

Science is not the issue here; the issue is the ideological thoughts around this problem. The social debate should stay away from Science and Science should stay away from this social debate. Scientists shall only provide there best theories based on the facts they have at this moment. Call makers and media need to find something else to feed on.

And by the way guys, are you ready to change your life style if the scientific predictions are correct? That’s the only point interesting to debate on this matter.

PS: sorry my english sucks