[RANT] Scenario/RvR Groups

[dee777]

...I usually hang back with the healers to protect them from nasty witchunters etc and always state that at the beginning of the scenario by /sp.

Slightly OT and might sound nitpicky, but please use /sc in scenarios instead of /sp. I so rarely see someone answering to my /sc spam and very often it is via /sp. Makes me wonder how much info I dont get because people in the other group wont use /sc.

*steps of his soap box*

 

[York]

This is a tough one, I generally play a Chosen mostly and being a main tank i have no healing abilities other than pots, i do however ensure i stay close to a healer, infact i purposly pick a healer to stick close too due to my guard ability which allows me to share the damage they take.

I play to win not for RPs, to beat order to 500 before they do, as such i feel its my job to be as annoying as i can to the opposite side in the hopes they will be whacking me rather than our casters or healers, unfortunatly without healing i go down pretty quickly which generally results in the healers and casters going down a few seconds later, this ultimatly results in less RPs for all of us, its a group effort, you keep me alive and i can keep you alive which results in more RPs for both of us.

Thanks my opinion anyways.

 

[charl8tan]

Exactly my point (though delivered in a roundabout rant kind of way) York.

I believe part of the problem stems from the mindset of ex-WoW players. Now don't take that the wrong way ladies, I myself was playing WoW until very recently (still am playing it technically). What I mean to say is that in WoW, PvP is not really a team effort, I include Arena's in that statement because even they are not massively focued upon teamplay (though they are much more coordinated than a BG admittedly). Whereas here, it's much more about working together to achieve the maximum reward.

Most of the times it's pretty balanced, as clearly Destruction has (I believe) the same problem as Order, however the times I've come up against a full Destruction team working together....has been most painful indeed. The scenarios will I think become greatly one-sided once the majority of one faction realises the teamplay importance. And the other shall suffer at least until they finally catch on too.

I can only pray that it's Order that realise this first >.<

 

[Chronictank]

In a scenario the other day; A tank refused to use guard on me, and the melee dps decided that assisting ranged dps before healers was the right thing to do.

And people wonder why healers decide not to heal in pug groups!

That may well have been me,
I will run with a healer a couple of times, if i get no support the healer is useless to me and i will swap to a lower risk solo style of play which doesn't require me to be healed. Seeing as support is usually in a high risk position will farm rp's in safer places rather than risk a charge behind lines where i will die very quickly
If i don't need healing i am losing hp for nothing with guard enabled, thus you will lose it and i will put it on something more useful

why would a tank bother splitting their hp with you if they are getting no benefit from it?

Detrimental to the end of the scenario? very much so, but by this point if the tanks have gone as far as leaving your grp then you weren't going to win anyway as dropping a healer from a grp is no small loss
It is now a game to get as many rp's as possible from a lost game

But ow well, i rarely join pug healers personally as i rather play with a guildie who i know will provide support

Right or wrong, thats how i play i give everyone a chance for the first half if it is getting nowhere /selfishmode and get rp's

The number of healer who seem to think the grp should revolve around them has killed any sense of eagerness for teamplay i had, if a healer hides in a zerg the tanks CANNOT push forward as they will die as soon as they leave range, a concept alot of people in bg's seem to forget

But then at the same time tanks are not blameless either, if you run too far forward you can no longer protect your healer as such they cannot heal and you will both inevitably die

 

[Pandemic]

yeah I group as a BW but I am wondering about continuing to do so in tier 4 - its fine when your with your guild group or a PUG with people you know, but in some PUG's I rarely have any tanks with guard on me (or even see a tank with a shield), the healer if there is one wont heal you and so what am I getting from the group? sweet FA. They however are getting uber xp / renown from me. Lets say a WE pops up and attacks me or a maruder charges me, its not always that people help me out when they could. Or Ironbreakers that dont stand their ground and run behind the BW using them as a shield.

It also doesnt help that going solo you can get 2x -4x the amount of renown as a BW - yes it really is that much more. I am currently being expected to group while other BW's and so on rush far ahead earning uber renown. When they hit a high rr long before I do who do you think will be most wanted in a group? the BW which can do the most dmg which wont be me so I get f*****d twice over.

I really am tired of seeing my renown earnt at 600 points and seeing the same lvl BW having done less dmg, kills etc than me getting 2400 points because he left the group. Despite me being often near or at the top of dmg, kills, solos I am usually almost last of either side in renown earnt

 

[Zagzyg]

There was another shaman in one our (Destruction) winning T2 scenarios last night who went solo.
He was healing everybody, so I guess the only real difference is his aoe moral heal, and his resistance buff. Neither are probably that big a deal tbh.
What I did notice at the end score card (should have screen shoted it) was that while I was close to the same number for healing and damage, he got a tonne more RvR points than me. More than double (more like around 600 to 2400, as Pandemic mentions). I think he was level 20 or 21 to my 15, but he was by far the top RR point earner.

Seems to be something in the way RR points are split between the group. If you're at the top end of levels in the scenario, you may be better off solo.

 

[Vell]

Can I just say on this topic, as playing my WP I have been accused of not healing several times and meleeing instead, my best f'ing heals are based off melee attacks. Just because I'm not stood back waving my arms in the air like an elf, does not mean I'm not healing!

If you're not getting healing, it's probably because you've run off like a moron without your healer, or because I'm already dead because you completely failed to protect me. I can't count the number of times my groups chased after a lone black orc and left me alone to deal with 2 marauders and a witchelf. You're not getting healed, you say? Well, duh!

Sometimes I've been in scenarios where the entire of the order team has ignored the entire point of the scenario. Stone Troll Crossing for example. Sure, go kill some destro if you like, but if you let one of them grab the flag and then run around the battlefield unmolested while you spend 5 minutes trying to kill 3 black orcs and 2 chosen, then we'll lose, stupid. Root the fuckers and run off after the guy who's got the flag! I find it incredible that some people are so stupid.

And to the WH that thinks they don't get anything from being in a group - I have a nice prayer that pings off an extra 90 or so damage on most hits. It's supposed to be 20% of hits but it seems a bit bugged at the moment and you get it most of the time. You think that won't help you taking enemies down? What about my group shield, which absorbs 600 odd damage for each group member regardless of where on are on the field? That won't help you? Or my group heals, or the strength buff I can give you, or a number of other things? And that's just coming from one member of the group!

You're a fool if you think you can do your job just as well solo as in a group.

 

[Rayko]

its a pain to play scenarios at the Order side, sometimes that is... I'm fed up already when I see we're with 6 or so Bright Wizards at start, a few engineers and sometimes only 1 healer such as the Warrior Priest

but when we do have a nice healer, I tend to guard him alot

 

[charl8tan]

@ Pandemic - Aye, and it's because of reasons like this that the system itself should be reworked in all honesty. Also, you're on KEP right? I've seen (and healed) you in scenarios a fair bit, so not all PUG healers are poopsticks.

 

[Heta]

problem with getting more exp in scenarios is that you out level your RR too fast

 

[Awarkle]

To be frank its a severe lack of healers on the order side that are the main problems. I was in a scenario and we had 1 healer unfortunatly for us that 1 healer was quite happily dpsing away on the otherside of the map while we were getting repeatadly slapped into the floor. In the end after dying again to some low ticking dot i just left the scenario.

I now only really do scenarios with guildys who at least understand the concept of KILLING THE HEALERS.

So many tanks and dps are happily nuking / tanking away at the black orc while the 5 healers behind are just chian healing him. So few people understand this basic premise that is why im always sneaking in behind flash banging knockback and planting turrets among them.

If folks learned this then the scenarios wouldnt be so one sided.

 

[Pandemic]

@ Pandemic - Aye, and it's because of reasons like this that the system itself should be reworked in all honesty. Also, you're on KEP right? I've seen (and healed) you in scenarios a fair bit, so not all PUG healers are poopsticks.

I am indeed on KEP. yeah i know mate, its just annoying that a lot of classes can get more renown by going solo, whats even more annoying is that i reported this during closed beta, they really need to rework the scenario system and fast

 

[Chronictank]

and to the wh

wh?

You're a fool if you think you can do your job just as well solo as in a group.

It's not about "your job", its about what earns you more renown when you think the scenario is lost

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

The scenario renown system is indeed very poorly thought out. I healed a truckload on my AM and got very little renown for it. I then went and DPS'ed a truckload when solo in the next scenario for shits & giggles.

Guess what, low dps class like the AM still got double the renown (1400 as opposed to 700). End result? I don't group a lot of the time in scenarios now.

 

[Uara]

wh=witch hunter!

 

[Stalkz]

no heals for the stupid....

Omg a Danish Trini! My Wifes from San Juan Trinidad hehe

 

[Vell]

wh?


It's not about "your job", its about what earns you more renown when you think the scenario is lost

Wh = Witch Hunter.
And what about those people that leave the group as soon as they zone in? The scenario certainly isn't lost at that point. Which is exactly what the wh in question does. Because, apparently, he can do his job just as well in a group as out of it. Read the thread, please

 

[Chronictank]

Wh = Witch Hunter.
And what about those people that leave the group as soon as they zone in? The scenario certainly isn't lost at that point. Which is exactly what the wh in question does. Because, apparently, he can do his job just as well in a group as out of it. Read the thread, please

didnt know what a wh was so thought you were refering to my post, my mistake

 

[Bourlog]

If some nuker wants to go solo to get extra rp/exp, no heals for him, simple as that.
In scenarios i only heal the people in the scenario groups. Why should i heal someone who just plays the scenario to get more exp/rp for himself?

 

[charl8tan]

I totally give up on healing people outside of Group 1 now, not one scenario tonight had a second full Group, always 3/4 Groups, first being full (me and mates/guildies) others being solo/duo players. Well, if they want to be off on their own then they can fully be on their own in my opinion.

@Pandemic - Saw you in a scenario earlier, was healing you (I think there was 3/4 AM's in that one game tbh) until you left the Group and went solo. I think you may have left the Group because the heals on you stopped, that might have been due to me getting bummed but there you go

 

[sloand]

I try to heal everyone i can...i have my own mini game which is to compete with my brightwizard friend. We see who does the highest, him in damage and me in healing.

This means i try to heal everyone who needs it.