[RANT] Scenario/RvR Groups

[charl8tan]

This is slightly in relation to my other thread regarding PQ's.

I've noticed recently more and more of the DPS classes forming very small groups, or even going solo in Scenario's as this nets them a much bigger RP and XP score.

Lovely jubbly you might think. Well no not really, not for the rather daft healers. First up, if you're solo, I get no unit frame anywhere to monitor your health/click on and shiznits to heal you which means actually looking out for your character and the teeny tiny health bar above your head, not to mention trying to target you whilst your jumping around like a nutter.

Second, why should I bother healing you? Yesyes, I get a bit of RP from that, however I don't get any share in the kill RP/XP (which 90% of the time you fail to get without the heals), much better for me to keep the people in my group alive than waste time for minimal gain on some solo guy right.

Seriously though, although it may lower your personal RP/XP slightly, it shares it around to all, and if you want any heals, then make sure you have a healer friend in your small group and don't start crying when a healer who's been left in a group on his own doesn't bother throwing you anything. These big numbers a lot of you are hitting will decline I believe as more and more healers stop healing outside their groups, I've recently been checking out what the group set-ups are and when I see these little groups/solo players I will not throw them even a nasty smelling fart.

The reason I made this post is due to getting seriously whined at in a scenario for not healing last night. I and a friend were in Group 1, everyone else who joined either instantly moved groups, forming lots of little 2/3 member groups or went solo. Yes! It is disgusting selfish of me to expect a cut from the kill RP/XP and not at all selfish of you to go solo and gain maximum isn't it!

Work with your healers and maybe, just maybe, they will work with you. Healers of the world unite!

 

[dee777]

Reasonable course of action mate. I ll follow your lead.

 

[Vell]

I absolutely agree.

 

[Skaven]

Lovely jubbly you might think. Well no not really, not for the rather daft healers. First up, if you're solo, I get no unit frame anywhere to monitor your health/click on and shiznits to heal you which means actually looking out for your character and the teeny tiny health bar above your head, not to mention trying to target you whilst your jumping around like a nutter.

In scenarios at least if you click on the scenario flag on your mini map it brings up a list of partys in there. if you click a tick box above one of the parties it gives you a party box with their health/action points in.

 

[griralith]

no heals for the stupid....

 

[Vintersorg]

/agree with OP.

Sometimes, being a healer in those scenarios is a nightmare, especially when some random DPS'er is whinging to you that you didn't heal him in time...

 

[Andrilyn]

Yeah I must agree with you aswell, I also don't understand why people choose to be in a single group (group 5 etc) with 2 people because it limits the use of some classes really bad (can only speak from a healer POV).
For instance I play a Shaman and I can only use my absorb shield on people in my group which means spike healing a target out of my group becomes harder due to not having access to my shield to prevent further damage on the target.

Same with things like group heals and group buffs, I'd rather have 5 people buffed than just 3 and I rather spend 1 group heal to heal 4-5 people at once than just 2-3.
I have no idea why people do it as if they want to play with a mate they can still do so within a "random" group of people and they wouldn't limit other people in their play and sometimes I find it can be the cause of a lost scenario.
But I guess to each their own maybe they don't want other people to roll on the loot they pick up in a scenario of which they will get less because they are with less people so it doesn't really make much sense.

 

[charl8tan]

In scenarios at least if you click on the scenario flag on your mini map it brings up a list of partys in there. if you click a tick box above one of the parties it gives you a party box with their health/action points in.

Yes I know this, still doesn't display solo players. Also I use a "filthy" addon so I don't need to bother displaying groups manually every time, as it automatically displays all groups in the scenario.

Again, that's not the main issue I'm ranting about.

 

[`mongoose]

I totally disagree

I think order priests should count themselves lucky to be allowed to play in the same servers as dps classes and should stop whinging.

ALL order DPS classes should shun priests from groups to put these piddly little support classes in their place. I feel it is destructions role in Warhammer to help you with this and we promise to help punish those non-healing healers for you.

Dacovale
(said firmly tongue in cheek for the sense of humour impaired)

 

[Draylor]

Its funny how things differ between servers.

Ive seen hardly any of this on the server I normally play on, rolled a alt on K8P yesterday and saw 3 soloers in the first scenario I joined. Pretty daft really, theyll get more xp/rp from their kills obviously, and may even gain something from doing it, but their team will be less likely to win leaving them far worse off over all. Folks will learn, slowly, that the xp/rp benefit from scenarios comes from achieving the objectives rather than randomly killing. Well maybe they will anyway, people are dumb, but its pretty much forced on you in the higher tier scenarios

Anyway, why would you try to heal folks that have told ya pretty clearly they dont want to be healed?

Rule 1: Dont bother healing random folks, they are just a waste of time, leading to frustration

 

[Xandax]

I can fully understand healers not healing solo'ers like that. However it also goes two ways though.

If I ever get a heal in a scenario I'm happy, because I do not expect it in PUGs. If I do however, that healer have just earned himself attention and my roots will start to go to saving him if possible
It is just rare that you do get heals in scenarios in my experience in PUGs (which is why I don't expect them), I can't count the number of times I've died with a healer standing besides me casting damage spells on somebody, or when I've run around with 10% health or so and healers just rush past me to get to the action, and then me dying in one hit afterwards or being out of the fray for a long time.
It is unfortunately the way of PUGs; and it is a double edge sword because when healers don't get protection - then why should they heal, and if healers don't heal, why should they get protection and all that.

But I can fully understand not wanting to heal those who shift group to "solo" in scenarios, and I think most can

 

[pez]

On my WH I always go solo because theres very little benefit to me in being in a group. I rarely get healed. The exception to this is if I ever get the flag or whatever the scenario item is then i rejoin a group and be a 'team player' for five minutes.

Only time I join groups with healers is if they are either known to me or a guild mate. Its one of these things that work both ways however I have never asked for and would never expect to be healed out of group.

 

[charl8tan]

If you don't expect the heals, then that's fair enough, as they wouldn't come from me!

But, I heal anyone and everyone in my group, and the other groups if I have time to/my group is full so they're not obviously being selfish wankers. It grates my balls when someone in my group dies (even when it is some random nob jockey who's just whining in the scenario chat), I think I'm going to have to stock up on reserve mice and keyboards as my current ones are taking a mad pounding when the inevitable happens.

 

[dee777]

On my WH I always go solo because theres very little benefit to me in being in a group. I rarely get healed. The exception to this is if I ever get the flag or whatever the scenario item is then i rejoin a group and be a 'team player' for five minutes.

Only time I join groups with healers is if they are either known to me or a guild mate. Its one of these things that work both ways however I have never asked for and would never expect to be healed out of group.

I wish more order players would do it this way. Teamplay is for weaklings. Honestly.

 

[pez]

/shrug I bring nothing to a group except DPS. I have no group buffs and no real utility to speak of. Having me part of a group makes us no more or less likely to win imo, it just means sharing my xps

 

[Mabs]

being a healer is easy:

if i cant see you : im not healing you
if you whine : im not healing you
if you dont protect me : im not healing you, ever again

people tend to learn or die lots and leave

 

[Yma]

Being a healer my (almost) whole DAoC career is the reason why I'm a tank in War

It's funny tho, even now that you can see clearly what the healer was doing simply by checking the scenario table (which you can access even in the middle of a scenario, if you're really curious) and reading the damage and heal numbers, you still have whiners problems. Don't you wish there was a 'ignore when targeting' button so you won't heal them even as mistake ?

 

[charl8tan]

/shrug I bring nothing to a group except DPS. I have no group buffs and no real utility to speak of. Having me part of a group makes us no more or less likely to win imo, it just means sharing my xps

You may think so, but being in a group with a healer means they can use their damage shields, buffs and group heals on you. Also means they don't ignore using single heals on you as well, just something you might want to consider I'd say.

 

[pez]

You may think so, but being in a group with a healer means they can use their damage shields, buffs and group heals on you. Also means they don't ignore using single heals on you as well, just something you might want to consider I'd say.

I fully realise this, and every now and again I will join a party for a scenario, receive no healing and got back to soloing,

 

[Soazak]

I have no problem with solo players, there are a few posts on VN asking to ban soloing from scenarios (wtf?) which i think is retarded.

But they should not expect heals when they are solo, as a Zealot (And usually one of very few in the scenario that heals) my first and usually only concern is my own group.

If people are part of a combined effort to push at the enemy I will usually heal in anyway I can, but if some dumbass witch elf runs past all the enemies to try solo some Iron breaker I will leave him to it, I tend to avoid wasting AP on those who seem to run around doing it wrong...but that goes for my own group/guild also

 

[ramathorn]

from experience in scenarios i dont see the problem, most of the shamans and zealots in the scenarios i am in do their fair share of healing, obviously with the odd exception.

 

[Umilard]

Personally i think going solo in scenarios as a dpsclass is egoistic and bad manners and something i would never do, but it's not something i get all worked up about.

What you are doing is reducing the chances of your realm to win for personal gain. As a solo player you will die more, becouse as a healer it's alot harder to heal people outside of group. I try to heal everyone if possible but it can be pretty hard to target people when they are running around.

Also, most of the whine towards healers seems to be bullshit to me. Sure, some players aren't very good, many seem to panic when they get a tank bashing them and just run around mindlessy, but so far i've only seen a very few players that's not healing. It's probably more common to see some tank trying to solo the biggest orc or some squishy dpser just charging without thought into the zerg.

 

[Zagzyg]

I noticed last night that there were some solo players in senarios.
I wondered about it, as I'd often clicked that button, wondering how you could be solo, as it automatically puts you in a group.

I tend to use ctrl-tab to find people in need of healing, finding that easier and quicker a lot of the time than clicking somebody, and finding they're not in range.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

being a healer is easy:

if i cant see you : im not healing you
if you whine : im not healing you
if you dont protect me : im not healing you, ever again

people tend to learn or die lots and leave

So true. Had a Swordmaster jumping up and down screaming /PLZ HEAL ME K THSKS in front of me in a scenario earlier. Stood there waving at him as he died to dots

Edited: F'ing typos.

 

[Jeremiah]

So true. Had a Swordmaster jumping up and down screaming /PLZ HEAL ME K THSKS in front of me in a scenario earlier. Stood there waving at him as he died to dots

Edited: F'ing typos.

How could you mistype /PLZ HEAL ME K THSKS? Hehe.

The thing that bugs me about being healer in scenarios is that either everyone splits up (in which case I try run with the tank) or everyone stands still (or even worse, runs behind me when the enemy arrives leaving me the furthest forward!)

I sometimes go solo in open RvR just because the renown is better - I tend to find in open RvR that you only get points if the sides are equal, else the Order PUGs die too fast to make an impact =) But I just heal whoever is near me who needs it - I like keeping people alive =)

 

[Soazak]

What you are doing is reducing the chances of your realm to win for personal gain.

They're still contributing to the overall game. Their sole job is to dps, and if they're doing that it doesnt matter if they're in group or not really.

I have no problem healing them if they're on my screen, if they're out of range/los then it wouldn't matter if they were in group or not.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

How could you mistype /PLZ HEAL ME K THSKS? Hehe.

The thing that bugs me about being healer in scenarios is that either everyone splits up (in which case I try run with the tank) or everyone stands still (or even worse, runs behind me when the enemy arrives leaving me the furthest forward!)

I sometimes go solo in open RvR just because the renown is better - I tend to find in open RvR that you only get points if the sides are equal, else the Order PUGs die too fast to make an impact =) But I just heal whoever is near me who needs it - I like keeping people alive =)

I don't worry about healing non-guild in the random groups if they don't stay with us. I spam "please stay with xyz" (usually our MA) "and you will get heals" at the start of a scenario. If i find them out of range when they go low on hps more than a few times i stop bothering.

 

[Umilard]

They're still contributing to the overall game. Their sole job is to dps, and if they're doing that it doesnt matter if they're in group or not really.

I have no problem healing them if they're on my screen, if they're out of range/los then it wouldn't matter if they were in group or not.

Yeah, but they are doing a worse job than they would in a group since they will loose out on buffs/grouphealing and die more. It's pretty much the same if i would go out dps with my RP instead of healing. While it would have a bigger negative impact for sure i would still contribute to the overall game.

 

[Hawkwind]

Only gone solo once and that was because the only zealot in group was not healing at all. Actualy watched him for a few mins and all he did was nuke. PM'd him and he ignored it. So went solo. If playing tank I usually hang back with the healers to protect them from nasty witchunters etc and always state that at the beginning of the scenario by /sp. So many noobs just go running off doing their own thing, pointless being in groups.

 

[Swiss]

In a scenario the other day; A tank refused to use guard on me, and the melee dps decided that assisting ranged dps before healers was the right thing to do.

And people wonder why healers decide not to heal in pug groups!