Scary New Laws!

[rynnor]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4564600.stm

When was this debated - I dont remember hearing about all this stuff - particularly worrying is the expansion of Community Support Officers powers - all along we have been told that these were not a cheap undertrained alternative to the regular policeman but they seem to be constantly gaining new powers - now they can stop search people?

On the arrest powers it does simplify things although I didnt see any mention of citizens arrests which will probably still use the old 'arrestable offences' test.

Looked at individually these powers arent so bad and if used responsibly are ok - on the other hand in total the extra powers in this bill could be horribly abused if somebody wanted to impose some kind of police state.

Theres also plenty of scope to tackle young people - if you see a group you could then arrest them for riot (being a gathering of more than 3 if memory serves) - take their fingerprints/dna, drug test em and then let em go if you couldnt pin em for anything else - fantastic!

 

[xane]

Theres also plenty of scope to tackle young people - if you see a group you could then arrest them for riot (being a gathering of more than 3 if memory serves) - take their fingerprints/dna, drug test em and then let em go if you couldnt pin em for anything else - fantastic!

"Riot" is 12 or more, between 3 and 12 is called "Violent Disorder", the ofense is the same but the difference lies in the prison term and/or fine. And they all have to be using or threatening to use violence, not just hanging around in a group.

 

[Ch3tan]

Good. About time.

 

[Milkshake]

Didn't even know you *couldn't* be arrested for things like that

There are alot of rules out there to make sure these new laws are used responsibly...at least in the IT sector. Rediculous rules come in about the car registration cameras just to make sure no-one can abuse it.

 

[nath]

Current non-arrestable offences include impersonating a police officer, failing to stop a vehicle when ordered to do so

I didn't realise this was non-arrestable. Interesting as I almost got arrested for this several years ago. First of all some dosy police bint starts waving her arm up and down as if to say slow down so I do, and look puzzled at her. She returns the puzzled look so I drive on. A moment later I'm being pulled over and told that it's an offense to not stop when ordered to do so by an officer.
She wasn't actually doing the correct hand signal to order me to stop - (the signal she was doing didn't appear in the green cross code at all) and I ended up being let go because some thugs started a fight round the corner and they had to check it out.

What wankers! </wibble>

 

[Gumbo]

She wasn't actually doing the correct hand signal to order me to stop - (the signal she was doing didn't appear in the green cross code at all)

Stop, Look and Listen?

 

[nath]

She didn't have green pants or a cape at all!


(piss off, pedant )

 

[ZiggY]

Who cares? the police are useless not very offten you see them on the beat there to busy in there bmws eatting fish and chips and pushing pens! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3427619.stm

 

[Escape]

We don't need new laws with the overpowered ASBO!

 

[ECA]

Who needs laws with labour in power? We're all fucked anyway.

 

[nath]

The woman, who argued that she had merely done the gardening in an Ann Summers bikini one hot day, also faced the threat of jail if seen in the yard or at her windows in just knickers and a bra.

Now that's criminal.

 

[Tom]

Whats the betting she was either a stunner and the local wives complained, or a minger and the local wives complained?

 

[old.Tohtori]

What do you have to fear if you don't break the law?

 

[rynnor]

What do you have to fear if you don't break the law?

Or a policeman just fancies causing you some trouble because hes having a bad day etc.

 

[ECA]

What do you have to fear if you don't break the law?

Can we book you in for the barcode tattoo next week then?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Can we book you in for the barcode tattoo next week then?

Sure thing, control chip, personal satellite surveillance, internet pron police. Bring it on, i've got nothing to hide.

 

[Ultimate]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4564600.stmWhen was this debated - I dont remember hearing about all this stuff - particularly worrying is the expansion of Community Support Officers powers - all along we have been told that these were not a cheap undertrained alternative to the regular policeman but they seem to be constantly gaining new powers - now they can stop search people?

On the arrest powers it does simplify things although I didnt see any mention of citizens arrests which will probably still use the old 'arrestable offences' test.

Arrestable offences are now gone(from jan 1st) and replaced with indictable offences. These are all offences that are triable at crown court or are either way offences(triable at cc or magistrates). Therefore citizens and PCSO's power of arrest are now for indictable offences only.

PCSO's powers vary greatly as its the chief constable of each force that decides how much of the powers that a PCSO could have are actually used. PCSO's up here in Northumbria have very limited powers and really if you look at the new powers the one with any major significance is the searching of people they have detained. This is NOT stop and search, that is only something a police officer has the power to do, PCSO's will only be able to search people they have detained for indictable offences.

Or a policeman just fancies causing you some trouble because hes having a bad day etc.

This should not be the case as the police officer will still have to apply the new necessity test to each arrest. He will not only have to inform the person being arrested of the necessity of the arrest(unless it is not practical to do so, for example when someone is drunk and unable to understand the reason) but he will also have to inform the custody sergeant of the reason of arrest and the custody sergeant must be satisfied with this before he takes the person into custody.

The majority of things on the necessity list come from Section 25 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act anyway and this is the part of the law that is being removed to make way for the new changes. For example say a police officer see's someone littering and wants to report the person for that offence. Under the current law the person would be required to provide a satisfactory name and address for the summons. If they didn't do this there is a power under Section 25 of PACE to arrest that person until they do provide a satisfactory name and address. Under the new law gathering a satisfactory name and address is part of the necissity list and could provide the grounds for arrest in such a case.

 

[Chilly]

It all seems rather sensible to me, what have I missed?

 

[Embattle]

The new laws, like many, are about having enforceable options.

 

[Moo]

so this means groups of chavs, doing such chavish things as shouting 'what u lookin at' in a threatening manner at passers by, would be considered a riot?

Arresting chavs gets the big thumbs up from me

 

[Tom]

Does anybody think the whole 'I am doing this, have a form for that, these are your rights' business is a bit silly.

I mean, whats wrong with 'YOURE NICKED SONNY' and off down to the station?

I did a bit of work a few months back following the cops around, it took 30 minutes to fill in the search forms for 4 lads who were doing nothing wrong. 30 minutes of form filling, for what? So the minority who are harassed feel better? How does that benefit society, the police in general know whos doing what and who to pull.

 

[Chilly]

Does anybody think the whole 'I am doing this, have a form for that, these are your rights' business is a bit silly.

I mean, whats wrong with 'YOURE NICKED SONNY' and off down to the station?

I did a bit of work a few months back following the cops around, it took 30 minutes to fill in the search forms for 4 lads who were doing nothing wrong. 30 minutes of form filling, for what? So the minority who are harassed feel better? How does that benefit society, the police in general know whos doing what and who to pull.

Good thing your not a minority then tom or persecuted by the police.

If you were a member of one of the minority groups (young black lads, asian lads basicly) who DO get pulled over more than white people you would feel very different.

 

[nath]

It's all to stop police abusing their powers - I don't trust them to do their job properly, so we have rules to try and make sure they don't do whatever they want.

 

[Bodhi]

Does anybody think the whole 'I am doing this, have a form for that, these are your rights' business is a bit silly.

I mean, whats wrong with 'YOURE NICKED SONNY' and off down to the station?

I did a bit of work a few months back following the cops around, it took 30 minutes to fill in the search forms for 4 lads who were doing nothing wrong. 30 minutes of form filling, for what? So the minority who are harassed feel better? How does that benefit society, the police in general know whos doing what and who to pull.

Your problem is you're an incorrigiable gay.