SB vs INF/NS

[Jaem-]

to me it looks like you took it all way too personal and now you're trying to flame me back or sth, instead of coming with some proper arguments to counter what i said

whatever

Make wub, not war!

 

[Mastade]

Dont forget that overpowered NS' get

Serenity
MoC
MCL
RP

^_^

 

[Dorin]

pissed text

it was just a simple question to be honest maybe reply normaly as you used to instead of that you just typed

:F

 

[Sauruman]

I find SB are harder then Slash NS, but Thrust NS are very tough from my experience as a Scout.

High RR SB I find hit like a 100mph train, they have access to a longer stun then Inf and NS, but 2 style combo.

One thing I think should be changed is 2.5x points on Inf, quite an advantage.

Miss. Ferret, ofc thrust NS's are very tough, our armor is weak to thrust =)

Imo, purge3 is must to any Slash dmg dealers. When you can get purge3 and mos3 as a slash dmg dealer, don't think you'll have such a hard time. This is from playing a slash infil now and than =)

PS: Don't purge scouts stun! Thats evul!

 

[Vodkafairy]

it was just a simple question to be honest maybe reply normaly as you used to instead of that you just typed

:F

simple question ignoring all the things in my post yes..

i dont play my ns much anymore anyways cus it frustrates me to no end, without remedy i wouldn't be OP but because of the time i spent on my equipment i like to think i can still win most fights yes

its hard though, being slash on a lurikeen.. debuffs fucked me over big time for a long time before remedy but the challenge was fun when they implemented remedy it was fun abusing it but then it became so fotm. bleeh

 

[Jaem-]

Miss. Ferret, ofc thrust NS's are very tough, our armor is weak to thrust =)

Imo, purge3 is must to any Slash dmg dealers. When you can get purge3 and mos3 as a slash dmg dealer, don't think you'll have such a hard time. This is from playing a slash infil now and than =)

PS: Don't purge scouts stun! Thats evul!

I didn't mean dmg types, I was refering to spec line.

 

[Sauruman]

I didn't mean dmg types, I was refering to spec line.

Lies! All Lies! <3

 

[Chronictank]

Do you play a stealther?

have i played one? yes
RR8 minstrel , RR5 and 7 sb, RR5 infil
havent played a NS im afraid hence why i dont comment on them

I also played before the nerf so know what the difference is

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

yer example stas are ofc comletely mis leadin, as im sure a buffed SB has more than 250 str.

yes they have more if Norse at least, but the game is missleading as character creation instructions state Kobold as the best SB, while infact Norse or even Valkyn is a better choice if you think pure damage potential, and has also more hitpoints than Kobold.
Kobolds have less strength than Saracen, Briton, Inconnu, Elf and Luri has dex, heck they even have less strength than Saracens wich is the typical dex based (Thrust) infil.
and the fact that str is 3rd stat for SB when it's their ONLY stat affecting their damage is ridicilous.

Doesent help being small and dexterous when you got meat cleavers to work with ^^

NS and Inf at least have a choice wether to be purely str based or dex/str based.
also, Left Axe is somewhat less effective than both CD and DW imo, dmg over time does not help neither zerker or SB one bit as the fights are so short that they come out way below dmg wise in each and every fight.
no target takes so many hits that the Left Axe even out and go over DW /CD wich is a shame as midgard is supposed to be the melee realm.

 

[Salamurhaaja]

Stop beating the same horse, which has been dead like 2-3 years at least.

After NF it didn't matter anymore what assassin you played, the game just wasn't the same.

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

Stop beating the same horse, which has been dead like 2-3 years at least.

it's really no concern for you, being deleted and all.

 

[rvn]

please search b4 u make a new post

SB Advantages:
Viper
Ability to use 2h without speccing in it, meaning max dmg on pa
Norseman having access to sb (high str race having access to the class)
Access to Phoebus Harp
Highest growth rates on LA styles
5% higher hp
LA swings every time (good for posion reapplys)

Sb Disadvanatges:
-sb's HAVE to spec LA to normalise dmg (you start gimped and spec your way to normal in short)
-shite styles in LA spec
-even with af charges and a stardrop you have 30 less af
-Useless rr5


Infil Advantages:
Spec AF
2.5 spec points
DW Mechanics
Thrust and slash spec lines
100% debuff vs sb's, only 50% debuff against
Best str/con debuff posion without any sacrifice

Infil Disadvantages
-Needs to have haste pots (arguable one as most sb's dont have a haste bot)
cant think of anymore atm

Think i got it all

Edit: found the post
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=42122&page=1&pp=15&highlight=shadowblade+infil

actacully CS styles > LA styles in GR

 

[n0Gaym0]

How often can ns use Remedy ?? what is the recast time and is it instant ?

 

[liloe]

Phoebus harp for the /use2 or the /use ?

Cause I'm tempted to PL myself an SB =)

 

[Vodkafairy]

/use2 on phoebusharp for all mid classes gives 5 min 75% style redux buff i think - something very close to that anyways

and remedy is insta, you remain stealthed but it doesn't work as a purge if you're too slow. 5 min timer, it takes 10% of your hp to use it and after the 1 min duration you regain those 10%

 

[Libertine]

After NF it didn't matter anymore what assassin you played, the game just wasn't the same.

Aye, the main reason is because your rp cows (archers) got some love.

 

[Valgyr]

As many stated the likes of hugmeh urzi(strong SL abuse when toa was new ) are much harder then any infi., hell even grimster is a tough cookie with his deul matter wep on my old 6% matter suit.
Even pre toa alot of SBs were as hard or harder then infi. i agree with vf as stealther its more important then on a grp char to have 100% tweaked gear to win, atleast if u want to compete with the best.

For the post starter: u need to learn more about dmg tables as almost all ur info is wrong, also look at some more items as u seem to have little idea on what stuff to use. on my OP thrust minstrel i have malice in backup slot just for the charge. as SB id use LW/sun wep 1 h and malice on other slot use 2 h battler for charge and PA. phoebus harp is a really really strong arti for SBs better then winged helm on rangers scouts minstrels. GoV always helps good proc nice melee bonuses. try and get 20+ str cap as much hits u can without gimping resits too much. Hope u make ur SB into summing, as hardmode is fun

ps any1 remember the nasty SB varg, damn he was hard with his 2 h spec /salute. ds

 

[Calo]

Dont forget that overpowered NS' get

Serenity
MoC
MCL
RP

^_^

pffft ! nothing beats my OP moc on my INSTA SPELLS

 

[dub]

it really boils down to this , have better equipment than your opponents , and get a haste bot.

wont ensure sure wins but it even the odds.

and no i dont have a hastebot

 

[Aybabtu]

Stop beating the same horse, which has been dead like 2-3 years at least.

After NF it didn't matter anymore what assassin you played, the game just wasn't the same.

Actually i'd say ToA changed the stealth RvR scene we'r just not assassins anymore. I'd love for them to take away some of my infils abilities for the chance to be able to kill with PA chain again

 

[wittor]

Give SB's some love imo

whine etc.

After NF it didn't matter anymore what assassin you played, the game just wasn't the same.

so true

 

[Nemo]

Gonna try something diffrent then... wasn't wine/qq wittor - only tired of not doing as much damage as rr2 INF's/NS's.

RR5Lx ML10
Specced ATM: 35stealth 33env 45CS 29LA 36Sword
6 lvl10 artis, only 4 in this template (150-200p spent on this char)
Current Temp: (tried alot diffrent)
Str:80 (had other templates with 26+ but crappy overall resists, exept melee)
Hits:241
Con:84
Dex:75
Qui:59 (251 buffed)

Resists
Body:25
Energy:25 (5)
Crush:32 (5)
Cold:28
Matter:21
Thrust:26
Heat:26
Spirit:18
Slash:27

Skills
11 Stealth
11 Critical Strike
11 Sword
11 Left Axe
Env have 33+4.

Cap Increases
40 Hits
5 Strength
5 Constitution
20 AF

Other Bonuses
8 Melee Damage
5 Fatigue
9 Style Damage
8 Melee Combat Speed

Piece Listing

Chest
Name: Golden Scarab Vest
Level: 51 Quality: 100
AF: Bonus:
Effect 1: 15 Dexterity
Effect 2: 9 Crush
Effect 3: 9 Slash
Effect 4: 9 Thrust
Effect 5: 4 Style Damage
Effect 6: 4 Melee Damage
Utility: 64.00

Arms
Imbue Points: 36.0 of 32 (100 Qual) Overcharge: 58%
Gem 1: 4 Left Axe - 99 Flawed Icy War Rune
Gem 2: 4 Sword - 99 Flawed Watery War Rune
Gem 3: 9 Spirit - 99 Polished Vapor Shielding
Gem 4: 3 Critical Strike - 99 Rough Heated Battle Jewel
Utility: 73.00

Head
Imbue Points: 37.0 of 32 (100 Qual) Overcharge: 38%
Gem 1: 4 Critical Strike - 99 Flawed Heated Battle Jewel
Gem 2: 3 Left Axe - 99 Rough Icy War Rune
Gem 3: 28 Quickness - 99 Perfect Airy Essence
Gem 4: 16 Strength - 99 Polished Fiery Essence
Utility: 64.33

Legs
Name: Arcane assasin
Level: 51 Quality: 94
AF: Bonus:
Effect 1: 9 Body
Effect 2: 9 Cold
Effect 3: 24 Constitution
Effect 4: 4 Critical Strike
Utility: 72.00

Hands
Imbue Points: 37.5 of 32 (100 Qual) Overcharge: 38%
Gem 1: 16 Quickness - 99 Polished Airy Essence
Gem 2: 11 Energy - 99 Faceted Light Shielding
Gem 3: 9 Spirit - 99 Polished Vapor Shielding
Gem 4: 5 Heat - 99 Flawed Heated Shielding
Utility: 60.67

Feet
Imbue Points: 37.5 of 32 (100 Qual) Overcharge: 38%
Gem 1: 4 Strength - 99 Uncut Fiery Essence
Gem 2: 9 Heat - 99 Polished Heated Shielding
Gem 3: 9 Energy - 99 Polished Light Shielding
Gem 4: 11 Thrust - 99 Faceted Airy Shielding
Utility: 60.67

Right Hand
Name: Battler
Level: 51 Quality: 100
DPS: 16.5 Bonus:
Effect 1: 15 Strength
Effect 2: 15 Constitution
Effect 3: 10 AF Cap Increase
Effect 4: 6 Crush
Effect 5: 6 Slash
Effect 6: 6 Thrust
Effect 7: 3 Melee Combat Speed
Effect 8: 4 Melee Damage
Utility: 56.00

Left Hand
Name: Malice LA
Level: 51 Quality: 100
DPS: 16.5 Bonus:
Effect 1: 15 Strength
Effect 2: 15 Constitution
Effect 3: 40 Hits
Effect 4: 5 Strength Cap Increase
Effect 5: 5 Constitution Cap Increase
Effect 6: 40 Hits Cap Increase
Effect 7: 5 Style Damage
Effect 8: 5 Fatigue
Utility: 30.00

Two Handed: LGW heat.

Neck
Name: Neckless of the clouds
Level: 51 Quality:
Bonus:
Effect 1: 60 Hits
Effect 2: 9 Matter
Effect 3: 21 Dexterity
Effect 4: 4 All Dual Wield Skills
Utility: 67.00

Cloak
Name: Shades Of Mist
Level: 51 Quality: 100
Bonus:
Effect 1: 3 Stealth
Effect 2: 15 Strength
Effect 3: 15 Quickness
Effect 4: 10 AF Cap Increase
Effect 5: 5 Melee Combat Speed
Utility: 35.00

Jewel
Name: Serrated Gem (unique)
Level: 51 Quality:
Bonus:
Effect 1: 31 Hits
Effect 2: 4 Body
Effect 3: 15 Strength
Effect 4: 5 Sword
Utility: 50.75

Belt
Name: Icebender obsian belt (uniq)
Level: 51 Quality:
Bonus:
Effect 1: 13 Dexterity
Effect 2: 30 Hits
Effect 3: 7 Cold
Effect 4: 2 Sword
Utility: 40.17

Right Ring
Name: Ring of the Seven Souls
Level: 50 Quality: 99
Bonus:
Effect 1: 4 Stealth
Effect 2: 40 Hits
Effect 3: 6 Crush
Effect 4: 15 Constitution
Effect 5: 13 Dexterity
Utility: 60.67

Left Ring
Name: Ring of the Seven Souls
Level: 50 Quality: 99
Bonus:
Effect 1: 4 Stealth
Effect 2: 40 Hits
Effect 3: 6 Crush
Effect 4: 15 Constitution
Effect 5: 13 Dexterity
Utility: 60.67

Right Wrist
Name: Ebon Hide Bracer
Level: 51 Quality: 99
Bonus:
Effect 1: 6 Cold
Effect 2: 6 Body
Effect 3: 6 Heat
Effect 4: 6 Slash
Effect 5: 6 Matter
Utility: 60.00

Left Wrist
Name: Ebon Hide Bracer
Level: 51 Quality: 99
Bonus:
Effect 1: 6 Cold
Effect 2: 6 Body
Effect 3: 6 Heat
Effect 4: 6 Slash
Effect 5: 6 Matter
Utility: 60.00

total utility 914.9

 

[Vodkafairy]

thats a pretty awful template considering how much more you should be able to get out of it

 

[Nemo]

thats a pretty awful template considering how much more you should be able to get out of it

As I said: tried many, cba to post all.

next I'm gonna aim for 47envenom (rr6 prolly)
and more hits
maybe try LA-styles only

 

[Raven]

you will also lose 30 con if you pa with your 2h

 

[Vodkafairy]

what you want is about 100 more hits and as close to 50 af as possible, and tbh, battler/malice for sb just isn't as good.. you will lose 15% dmg against rangers as compared to using a cold legendary and 25% against nightshades. no way battler proc/bonuses will ever make up for that. + if the legendary procs the difference is even bigger

sb's have the hp and la advantage, using malice in offhand is good, but you have to utility lgw's and AF + phoebus harp necklace obviously

 

[GrIrcSpammer]

gotta say some things here

1) The statement that there are no good infils in excal is kinda correct ... tho not accurate i d say.I duelled Lxn and Bindil one after another when they had 2 melee relics and none left me below 40%(i d expect more from them ). The guy that says that thrust infils need 26str/dex when they get only 13 back rly needs to buy a clue ... str gets debuffed dex doesnt maybe ...?

2)Shadowblade needs love for sure. Still most sbs must realise that sb isnt like other stealthers.As infil u might aswell r0x at rr5 ... when sb needs some decent realm rank to compete with higher/equal rr stealthers. Shadowblade is like an investment ..the more u play the stronger it gets, eventually u ll be able to compete well.It might sound unfair but thats the way it is.

3)Mosts sbs (sadly) dont use their char well. Seeing spec af as an infil advantage is like ridiculous since sbs must realise they need spec af / haste active at all times.If u cant do that then dont whine about losing its totally ur fault.Sbs that try battler/malice combo must understand that they wont be able to stand up to the infils/ns ... since s/c debuff hurts so much. Not being able to debuff ur dmg sux totally and battler malice is actually the worse combo of weapons a shadowblade can use.You need to realise that legendary weapons are DEFINITELY the way to go.Moreover i see almost all sbs spamming doublefrost neglecting totally the fact that they need to use garrote/achilles combo at least one to get the asd effect on the opponent. People also forget that their offhand swings always which means that incase they use 2 legendary weapons they got double chance to debuff... and debuff increases ur dmg output a lot.Most sbs use malice as offhand and therefore they dont take any advantage of one of the best things LA offers which is the LA haste.I admit that malice proc is very nice but maybe u should consider going fast legedary offhand which will offer capped swing speed ( more hits more crits higher dmg output) and double chance to debuff ur damage.

4) La styles = shit... ?
if u think snowsquall is shit u need to buy a clue aswell
Some guy said that "a good sb will never beat a good inf who is equal rr and both have abilities down". Thats totally false , i have many times won over opponents with a higher realm rank without using anything .

5) Someone mentionned that CS has better growth rate than LA. Thats true since garrote achilles has highest dps than doublefrost spam ( depends on spec ofc) but after many tests i ve come to this conclusion : CS spec line damage output is based on Hammy evade chain and not on garrote achilles since achilles is most of the times hard to land vs other assasins.. that means that for the times that achilles will miss/get evaded in the end DF > garrote + achilles.

6) Nightshades.

Remedy is fucking overpowered and it drives me crazy sometimes BUT :

a) VS thrust nightshades : u cant use purge because if they stun you after purge ure fucked tho most ns's are lazy and being thrust they dont have a level 10 malice for the charge.So all u gotta do is use malice and beat the crap out of em !

b ) VS bladeshades : Bladeshades is the kind of ns that i find most difficult to counter . Being vulnerable to slash damage combined with remedy and their ability to use malice/battler makes bladeshade my worse enemy.However bladeshades dont have an after evade stun (they can use ice storm but u shouldnt get stunned providing u will outstrafe em ) . that means u can purge their poisons and r0x their box luckily for me i know only 2 ns's that actually reapply poisons after i purge so purge3 is the way to go vs a bladeshade.

c) i m pretty sure that if i got everything up i wont lose to any nightshade more than 20%-30% meaning ( ablative charges/ph/som/spec af/malice or battler) tho its very rare to have all that up and running every fight ^^^^


7) I am pissed at the fact that a nightshade can go wyrd spec without losing its after evade stun when infils need to spec 50 thrust for the same thing which is actually useless.That should be looked at and reconsidered ... even the huge amount of points that an infil gets to spec cant make up for that.It also drives me crazy that ns's ranger get Ice storm which can be pretty helpful vs MoCing casters etc when infils/sbs gotta walkthru (sometimes not effective enough) vanish or simply die.

8) Overall i d say nightshade is the most efficient assasin atm infil is tough and sb(with GOOD equipment) can compete with infils if decent realm rank maybe not with remedy nightshades sometimes.

9) RR5 abilities : remedy r0x , infil rr5 r0x ( gotta love backstab walkthru and PA) , shadow strike needs to be replaced or fixed asap

10) Skill spec and Realm rank spec :


a) Skill.


As a shadowblade u need High LA to compete so i would think that u must be happy with 34ish cs spec since u need all the help u can get from LA.

so Sword : 51 effective skill . For example i have 33 + 18 sword at rr8
Cs : 34 skill . You need after PA Stun so 34 cs is optimal
Envenom : u need the last s/c debuff so i would get 47 effective envenom . For example i have 29 + 18 . 50 Envenom is popular as it can be really effective combined with the Viper realm ability tho i wouldnt advise people to choose that path as u use some points that are totally useless vs NS's.
Stealth : u need 50 effective ^^
LA : all the points that u got after speccing as stated above .

b) Realm.

You need mos2/3 ( i d go for 3 as i dont like to get uncovered by rr2-3 archers and then get zerged )
You also need purge2 . Purge3 r0x but u cant afford it until u get rr7+
Rest points in Mastery Of Pain imo and Empty Mind/First Aid ( FA is the best ra an assasin can get ingame ^_^)
thats mainly it .. dont bother to waste points in aug str because i ve tested aug str0 and aug str5 and the difference was so tiny it made me cry
Vanish sux ... it will let u get away but it wont give u any rps either^^

10) Last thing i wanna say dont whine about other assasins being overpowered , be patient or reroll, ofc sometimes it gets even me angry ... try to counter em and get some High realm rank in order to compete.Use PH because they cant ! its a fucking must imo !



/regards d3f1

 

[GrIrcSpammer]

One last thing i forgot ! dont bother to use 2handed to PA its almost the same damage ouptut (providing u have specced as above). Its better if u can use an artifact that will give u some useful charge ... battler malice is nice and GS r0x vs archers as u can interrupt em and then get to them

 

[Puppet]

Malice offhand aint that good to be honest, its too slow, only good if you have Celerity (so berserkers or so). Left-Axe is quite balanced if you consider a mediocre LA-spec + perma-haste in assassin vs assassin fights.

As shadowblade one of your advantages is Phoebus, not using that advantage is like an infiltrator not using his last 0.3 specpoints or a NS not using Remedy. Yep its on a timer, but 5 out of 15 mins its up and the other 10 mins are covered by SoM

Advantage of always swinging offhand eases poison-application on enemies, and also reapplying them incase of a Purge. Traitors is a very viable offhander for SB's when facing relative low effective dps classes but with high defenses (or IP) like Rangers and scouts. 1 traitor-procs makes u immune to tricks like slam + arrows or FZ + arrows.

Slash-weak, yeah. But also thrust-resistant, and the thrust-argument always comes up with str/dex-weapons and off-evade stuns. Enemy assassins using slashers dont have an off-evade stun, Shadowblades do, when sufficient Left-Axe spec, even tho its 2nd in chain - but also longer duration.

More HP, higher STR - and easier SC'ing obviously aswell. And you dont have to fight warcocks (xD).

 

[Vodkafairy]

defi whines like a pig and talks a lot of shit but his post above is very very true, sb's should all read that very carefully

right mentality + right equipment + lots of knowledge = good assassin