SB vs INF/NS

[Nemo]

Alb 2,5 speccpoints
Hib/mid 2,2

------------------
Leather: crappy against thrust,good against slash.
NS/INF specc thrust weap's - SB's can't specc thrustweap's

---example---250str 250dex----- after str/con debuff:
INF weap----131+250/2=190,5
SB weap----131=debuffed to hell. NS/INF don't worry about you being con-debuffed - I will only hit you for 40ish
NS weap----131+250/2=190,5
------------
Gaining from lvl's:
primary/secondary/third----DEX/QUI/STR

---------------------------------------------------------------
RR5:

INF-Assassinate: (dunno if it's any good tho)
Infiltrator selects a target within 750 range and spends 15 seconds (without moving) preparing the assassination attempt. The attempt fails (but the recast timer is not reset) if the assassin takes any action during those 15 seconds, or if the target moves more then 750 units away from the user. Once prepared, the next attack on that target by the assassin will not break stealth. (600sec RUT)

NS-Remedy: (Uber imo)
Nightshade ingests poison that costs 10% life but grants poison/dot/proc immunity for 60 seconds. Can be activated while stealthed without breaking stealth. HP loss is returned when the duration is up.(300sec RUT)

SB-Shadow Strike: (totally crap)
ShadowBlade takes 10 seconds to disappear in the shadows. Once in the shadows the SB will automatically teleport to and perf any enemy they choose within 1000 radius. Usable only at night(will be changed-jippiii). Can not be used to enter a locked keep or tower. (600sec RUT)

------------------------------------------------------------

NS/INF only need to put 26+ in dex in template
SB's can't gimp themselves with 26+ in both dex and str= vill evade less.

Do you (mature) Alb's/Hib's think it's fare?
----
I know there's alot of good SB's, that's not my point.
----


Give SB's some love imo

 

[Libertine]

Not sure about any others but i find high RR well ToA (including PH) SB's to be the hardest assasin to fight, not sure why but thats my honest opinion.

 

[Raven]

same, but i think thats mostly down to there being 0 good infs on excal

 

[DrunkSkunk]

Leather: crappy against thrust,good against slash.

isnt leather slash vurnalbe? and chain thurst.. ?

 

[Nemo]

I find high RR SB's to be the hardest assasin to fight

That's maybe why?
And there's alot more RR2-5 out there.

BTW:
I forgot about the DD (dunno if it's INF's or NS's that have them. They are stealthers, not casters - Mythic must have been on drugs when creating them)

isnt leather slash vurnalbe? and chain thurst.. ?

Weapons/Magic vs. Armor (From Classes of Camelot website):

_______________Crush__Slash__Thrust__Fire__Cold____Earth__Electric
Cloth__________-______-______-______-_____-______-______-
Leather________-______+15%__-15%__+15%__-10%__-5%___-
Studded/Reinf__+10%___-______-10%__-10%__+5%___+5%___+5%
Chain__________-______-15%__+15%__-10%__-______-______+10%
Plate/Scale____+10%___-5%___-5%___-10%__+10%__-10%___+10%

 

[Libertine]

That's maybe why?
And there's alot more RR2-5 out there.

BTW:
I forgot about the DD (dunno if it's INF's or NS's that have them. They are stealthers, not casters - Mythic must have been on drugs when creating them)

I actually went back to amend that because there are a few rr4 SB's who are ALOT harder than rr4 infs.

 

[Thorwyn]

I forgot about the DD (dunno if it's INF's or NS's that have them. They are stealthers, not casters - Mythic must have been on drugs when creating them)

Generally it´s a pretty good idea (and a sign of the maturity that you´re so fond of) to know what class you´re complaining about. If you don´t even know what ability class X has compared to class Y, the fundament of your arguments is a bit fragile, reducing your POV to "omg, the others are better!!1"

 

[Raven]

That's maybe why?
And there's alot more RR2-5 out there.

BTW:
I forgot about the DD (dunno if it's INF's or NS's that have them. They are stealthers, not casters - Mythic must have been on drugs when creating them)

its nightshades, and i quote (from the classic game instructions) ahem... "a strong spellcaster who follows the way of stealth, the nightshade can hide and sneak unnoticed by his or her enemies, and strike when the need arises."

Though that is ofc bs as their spells arent all that shit hot

 

[Neffneff]

depends if hib leather/mid leather/alb leather ofc

mid leather is vuln to slash, resistant to pierce.

yer example stas are ofc comletely mis leadin, as im sure a buffed SB has more than 250 str.

i agree with the other poster, high RR SBs basically eat my shade alive, where and equal RR infil is less certain (may change with remedy i guess)

anotehr adv. str based weapons have, is you dont get all your aug str/dex purchases basically halved in effect cos of the pierce system. you can spend less RA points to bump your dmg stat right up ( which is good) only down-side being you suffer from str debuffs more ( which is bad )

 

[Libertine]

NS/INF only need to put 26+ in dex in template
SB's can't gimp themselves with 26+ in both dex and str= vill evade less.

If an inf/ns puts +26 str/dex into their template they are gimping something i can assure you, and only get a +13 bonus back due to 50/50, a SB puts +26 str in and gets the full amount back.

Don't get me wrong, SB deserve a thrust weapon and a 5 sec stun off evade but your post sounds like you have been reading the doomsayers on VGN.

 

[Nemo]

Generally it´s a pretty good idea (and a sign of the maturity that you´re so fond of) to know what class you´re complaining about. If you don´t even know what ability class X has compared to class Y, the fundament of your arguments is a bit fragile, reducing your POV to "omg, the others are better!!1"

I wasn't complaining about NS/INF's - I compared them vs SB's and was only typing facts here. That fact I wasn't sure of (and I might have some of the other facts wrong to)

The "maturity-part" was so it could stay as a discussion, and not turn out as allmost all other thread here does.

 

[Chronictank]

please search b4 u make a new post

SB Advantages:
Viper
Ability to use 2h without speccing in it, meaning max dmg on pa
Norseman having access to sb (high str race having access to the class)
Access to Phoebus Harp
Highest growth rates on LA styles
5% higher hp
LA swings every time (good for posion reapplys)

Sb Disadvanatges:
-sb's HAVE to spec LA to normalise dmg (you start gimped and spec your way to normal in short)
-shite styles in LA spec
-even with af charges and a stardrop you have 30 less af
-Useless rr5


Infil Advantages:
Spec AF
2.5 spec points
DW Mechanics
Thrust and slash spec lines
100% debuff vs sb's, only 50% debuff against
Best str/con debuff posion without any sacrifice

Infil Disadvantages
-Needs to have haste pots (arguable one as most sb's dont have a haste bot)
cant think of anymore atm

Think i got it all

Edit: found the post
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=42122&page=1&pp=15&highlight=shadowblade+infil

 

[Alhanna]

Nemo while reading your post it was clear to me you are a Mid seeing your negative self view on the SB. I find alot of fights hard vs your class but then as Raven said the are ZERO good infs on excal. (Thank you Raven and sorry my fight vs you wasnt upto much but you are a high rr tank)

A few questions for you Nemo.

If you could spec thrust would you?

Are you wielding Malice/Battler?

And if so since changing to those weapons did you find you are doing better with them?

When debuffed by a NS/INF in ST/CON does your attack suffer to cause you to lose a fight or is it just a minor problem/pain?

Are you finding you have a lack of good styles making you think what is the point?

Are you finding that you die more often to one on one fights vs NS/INFS of same or lower RR too often for you liking?

Enough of those I think, but I have many more.

As for the RR5 ability for INFs which I have used alot and like it but would welcome remedy instead or reduce the timer on Assinate. To be able to PA twice on someone without breaking stealth can be very useful one on one or on and more vs mezz poition up. The timer I think is 10 minutes on reuse. Funny that it took a non stealther to point out how useful it could be in a fight and only last night I used it in a single handed defense of a tower for over an hour vs 3, 4 and more hibs at a time. As for your ability I cannot comment maybe you can highlight it some more for me?

Take on board what I put here, dont give up. We all have good and bad fights I think and you will always come to a fight that you lose 99% of the time one on one. I lose with Vodkafairy, Censi (IP,FZ melee spec too much) and others. If you are finding it hard take a break from the SB or rethink your setup in terms of spec and items.

 

[Nemo]

1. If you could spec thrust would you?
2. Are you wielding Malice/Battler?
3. And if so since changing to those weapons did you find you are doing better with them?
4. When debuffed by a NS/INF in ST/CON does your attack suffer to cause you to lose a fight or is it just a minor problem/pain?
5 Are you finding you have a lack of good styles making you think what is the point?
6. Are you finding that you die more often to one on one fights vs NS/INFS of same or lower RR too often for you liking?
7. As for your ability I cannot comment maybe you can highlight it some more for me?

1. Yes, or atleast try it out, I'm a cobbie.
2. Yes atm I'm trying those
3. Only when malice proccs.
4. I go down fast. But dont loose allways
5. Tried most speccs. using CS-styles only now.
6. Yes
7. Tried it ones - It's not something I can use when seeking other stealthers. Screenie:

 

[Libertine]

Do you have PH necklace?
Do you use malice/battler combo VS rangers and shades?

 

[Alhanna]

1. Yes, or atleast try it out, I'm a cobbie.
2. Yes atm I'm trying those
3. Only when malice proccs.
4. I go down fast. But dont loose allways
5. Tried most speccs. using CS-styles only now.
6. Yes
7. Tried it ones - It's not something I can use when seeking other stealthers. Screenie:

IT seems you have done all that you can but I dont know about your items and caps on skills and abilities, maybe it is a very good template. I find the same thing with my sorc I die die die but then she is not complete. Anyway Nemo take a break or if you like pm me and we duel with BB's close and test a few things out in a less stressful area.

 

[Dafft]

My opinion:

SB's tooled & kitted out right are a right pain, the same can be said for any character - If someone enjoy's tooling up their Chars, then you can bet your left testicle that they spend a fair amount of time & money doing it.

Back to your argument, SB's have it slightly harder due to their wpn choice but having a look at their resist table, Mid leather vs Thrust gains an additional 10% much like Hib leather vs Slash.

and (I may be wrong) LA iirc hits the same time as main hand so, it would probably look like this: Mainhand hits for say 150 dmg, Left hand hits for say 100dmg = 250 dmg in 1 round, were as infi/NS their offhand wouldnt always hit in the same round.

At the end of the day, it's not the class that fails, it's the player

 

[Jaem-]

I find SB are harder then Slash NS, but Thrust NS are very tough from my experience as a Scout.

High RR SB I find hit like a 100mph train, they have access to a longer stun then Inf and NS, but 2 style combo.

One thing I think should be changed is 2.5x points on Inf, quite an advantage.

 

[Leroli]

this is ziz posting bla bla bla cant log my ac on this PC (FO lero!)


all SB's qq less go watch cilivels 4th vid or stalkerr they know how to play thier toons


SB's have are strong toons if kited out and WELL played

OK SB's HAVE to spec LA? well QQ since when is offhands doing more dmg a bad thing?

Sure if your totaly unaware of the WYRD's findings and still run 50 SWORD/axe
but if you do im just gonna dismiss u for not keeping up to date

Sure SB's have it tough with NS's spamming remedy and infils being well infils this being said even as Blade NS id gladly fight infils insted of some of the good SB's we have
/flame off

 

[Chronictank]

this is ziz posting bla bla bla cant log my ac on this PC (FO lero!)


all SB's qq less go watch cilivels 4th vid or stalkerr they know how to play thier toons


SB's have are strong toons if kited out and WELL played

OK SB's HAVE to spec LA? well QQ since when is offhands doing more dmg a bad thing?

Sure if your totaly unaware of the WYRD's findings and still run 50 SWORD/axe
but if you do im just gonna dismiss u for not keeping up to date

Sure SB's have it tough with NS's spamming remedy and infils being well infils this being said even as Blade NS id gladly fight infils insted of some of the good SB's we have
/flame off

read previous posts
get a clue

a good sb will never beat a good inf who is equal rr and both have abilities down

 

[Vodkafairy]

havn't lost to any sb other than braakjekk after he used malice and i underestimated him (ill get joo!) because of my overpowered remedy, i havnt actually fought a sb with phoebus harp though. or well, a rr6 one but he wasn't very good

think ns are top of the foodchain now because of remedy, infils and very good sb's are quite even i fink. low rank its easy tho, infil > all but theres no good infils on this server anyhoo, afaik

 

[Alhanna]

but theres no good infils on this server anyhoo, afaik

Another one saying it.....thanks Vodka.

 

[Vodkafairy]

Another one saying it.....thanks Vodka.

no need to take it personal, you're just a very different player from those i would call the best at their class. for example hugmeh and urizen try to squeeze every little tiny bit out of their character thats technically possible in this game, where you don't even make your own templates

im not saying you're a bad infil, but to be the best you need a lot of knowledge about game mechanics, templates, etc. squeezing the best out of your character is something i'd call skill when it comes to assassins aswell

i spent many many weeks checking the ME several times a day to make a 'perfect' ns template, i spent many hours calculating game mechanics to see what spec and what weapon combo would be ideal. not saying im the best ns on excal, but im fairly sure i have put more time into optimizing my char than most others and yes, im a proper nerd, but you have to be one to play a stealther to full extent i think

 

[Alhanna]

no need to take it personal, you're just a very different player from those i would call the best at their class. for example hugmeh and urizen try to squeeze every little tiny bit out of their character thats technically possible in this game, where you don't even make your own templates

im not saying you're a bad infil, but to be the best you need a lot of knowledge about game mechanics, templates, etc. squeezing the best out of your character is something i'd call skill when it comes to assassins aswell

i spent many many weeks checking the ME several times a day to make a 'perfect' ns template, i spent many hours calculating game mechanics to see what spec and what weapon combo would be ideal. not saying im the best ns on excal, but im fairly sure i have put more time into optimizing my char than most others and yes, im a proper nerd, but you have to be one to play a stealther to full extent i think

I wonder how you would fair without remedy?

 

[Vodkafairy]

I wonder how you would fair without remedy?

haha so childish, didn't expect that from you im done with this discussion if you act like that, bye!

if i ever play my ns again when you're out aswell ill make sure to kill you a few times without remedy

 

[Leroli]

read previous posts
get a clue

a good sb will never beat a good inf who is equal rr and both have abilities down

Do you play a stealther?

 

[Alhanna]

haha so childish, didn't expect that from you im done with this discussion if you act like that, bye!

if i ever play my ns again when you're out aswell ill make sure to kill you a few times without remedy

Wasnt childish was just a question to which I didn't expect you to blow up like that, but then again I suppose I don't really know you.

 

[Raven]

Thank you Raven and sorry my fight vs you wasnt upto much but you are a high rr tank

actually i thought you did pretty well, rather than using vanish to run to the nearest keep/tower you stayed near and PA'd me again, most infils dont do that

 

[Vodkafairy]

Wasnt childish was just a question to which I didn't expect you to blow up like that, but then again I suppose I don't really know you.

to me it looks like you took it all way too personal and now you're trying to flame me back or sth, instead of coming with some proper arguments to counter what i said

whatever

 

[illu]

1. Yes, or atleast try it out, I'm a cobbie.
2. Yes atm I'm trying those
3. Only when malice proccs.
4. I go down fast. But dont loose allways
5. Tried most speccs. using CS-styles only now.
6. Yes
7. Tried it ones - It's not something I can use when seeking other stealthers. Screenie:

Hi Nemo

I think you are probably having a bit of a hard time as a low SB, a kobbie one too :>, but it all comes good once you get to RR5+. Yes NS's with their DD's that knock you out of stealth and remedy that kills pretty much all the poisons we put on them (except poisonspike I think), they are very tough. And infils are also pretty tough too, but in time - you will get the hang of it.

You need to spec well, and you need to get some MLs and some Artis to make sure that you can compete. The best artis are SoM, malice axe and battler, closely followed by scalars and RoD. You should also fight different enemy with different weapons if you can, legendary heat weapons + malice are nice against other assassins, legendary cold + malice against archer types (I think). The battler is ok as a weap - but you should only really use it for the /use2 level10 charge on it. Also with malice axe, use the charge on that too, but use it at the right time or you could be worse off! :>

Then also get your MLs sorted. You need poisonspike asap, and ML9 Mezz poison is a very nice luxury to have against 2+ ppl.

As a kobbie, you want to have as much str cap in your suit as possible, and aug str2 would be good in RAs. Get purge2 asap, purge3 is awesome.

Get some toughness to last longer too, long wind 1 is nice, some viper perhaps...MoS2, etc etc

And with your spec - I think I saw that you are going mainly CS styles, don't forget that you need LA to hit harder whether you use the styles or not, so at low RR, speccing something like mainweap 37 (higher if you use the styles in this otherwise make sure that the total composite number is 50-51 i.e. 37+11(items SC)+2(RR3)=50) LA 34+, stealth 35+, CS34+,Env 25+ (envenom you can swap out items to get the points you need, so you can have 30env+11(in 2 items that you swap out instead of in your suit)+RR)

Basically what hurts sb's is being str/con debuffed. If you get in a fight where they str/con debuff you and then you are stunned real soon after, use purge and the fight should be better.......

Good luck

Oli - Illu

PS look up items and specs and the wyrd spec in the ign rogue profession boards. Also check out perforateartery.com.