SB+ 17% haste - research for finding right weapon

[salamurhaaja]

Thx for Paradigm helping whit this research. Couldn't make it whitout you.

As we all know, Sbs will come gimps after 1.62. To compensate that I've exped one option is lvl healer and share buffs whit fellow Sbs.
This research is made by using cap shammy buffs + lvl40 healer's haste [17% attacj speed].

Stats on attacker:
str287
dex337
qui265
axe50+18
la50+18
using doublebladed, axe50+14, la50+14
weapons are mp, doublebladed is only99%

Combinations we tried:
Cleaver+hand axe
Cleaver+weighted bearded axe
Cleaver+cleaver
Doublebladed+weighted bearded axe

We noticed few things right away:
1) Even 265 qui + haste 17% isn't enough to pull 4 free hits off after frosty when using cleaver+handaxe.
2) Cleaver+cleaver combo is too slow, even if it's possible to give 3 free hits and offhand damage is nice. Maybe it's possible using 20% haste whit MoA, but not 17%.

So that leaves only two weapon-combinations:
Cleaver+weighted bearded axe
Doublebladed+weighted bearded axe

After that we took closer look on those two.
Here's screens:
Cleaver+weighted1
Cleaver+weighted2
Cleaver+weighted3
db+weighted1
db+weighted2
Remember that db is only 99%, and I'm missing when using it +4 axe & la.

After several tries whit Paradigm, we didn't notice much difference in swingingspeed between those two.
But remember that if you don't have haste: cleaver+weighted > db+weighted.



17% HASTE IN A NUTSHELL

1) it allows you to use db[4.2]+weighted[2.9] weapons combo and hitting whit it faster than cleaver[4.0]+hand axe[2.4].
2) 4 free hits after frosty is impossible whit cleaver+handaxe combo [265 qui]
3) optimal weaponcomos are [using axes, if you use sword, get equal speed]:
doublebladed+weighted
cleaver+weighted, in which cleaver > doublebladed if you don't always have haste.


P.s If we can exp healer to lvl50, we will update this thread concerning 20% haste which may make cleaver+cleaver playable [=deadly offhand damge] combo.

P.s.s Just remember that haste benefits are best when perfing whit 2h weapon. Imo, I won't even try land pa+cd on 2h weapon weapon, delay is so huge.

 

[old.LandShark]

Perfecting the art of running in greater numbers AND having more buffbots than the competition.... good work :doh:

 

[froler-mid]

haste is overrated.



BRING ON 1.62!1111111111

 

[saltymcpepper]

lol you think this is gonna make much difference?
buffed nightshades have haste aswell you know

 

[salamurhaaja]

Originally posted by saltymcpepper
lol you think this is gonna make much difference?
buffed nightshades have haste aswell you know

Yes I know that.

/nerf druid buffbots for having all good stuff in one spec line.

I'm talking to fellow SBs. That's why I posted this to Midgard-section. Not general, hib or rvr.

 

[minime_]

We arent trying to say 1.62 wont change anything for sb's, coz it surely will, this is just plain info on how to adapt.

 

[Haldar]

i did tests on haste some time ago. i hadn't access to healer with decent level of haste, so i used haste charges, logged the damage and put it thru Perl parser i wrote myself.

And i got results indicating that with this 17% haste my styled damage per hit dropped by roughly 8%, swing delay decreased by 17% (ofc!), and total damage over time increased by 7%.

not a good deal by me. bcoz
1) practically, this means that u will do 15 swings in time of normal 14.
2) end cost on styles stays the same - while decreasing style damage due to haste.

and there's a separate issue for me - maybe for some other SB's here too....i play via 33.6 modem and sometimes i dont push style button in time - which results in unstyled swing...

also a thing to consider.

currently i run around with no haste, 219 qui and DB axe - hand axe combo - avg delay 3.3 sec. haste % i gain from qui is:
(219-60)/4 = 39.75% (source: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=50168797&replies=9). This means that i swing once per 1.98825 sec. if i get 17% haste - it will be 1.6502475 sec - pretty close to 1.5 cap.

now, in 1.62 they will remove buff cap values. this means that last dex/qui buff, which delves for +69 dex/qui will actually add 86 dex/qui without MotA. with MotA 4 which i plan getting for my bot - it will add 96 qui instead of 75 currently. And if u put here aug qui 1 - my quickness will become 219+(96-75)+6 = 246....which will make my swing speed 1.7655...and with 17% haste it will be 1.465365 sec, which is already below the 1.5sec cap. And bear in mind that my SB is a norse who didnt put any points into qui at creation....

now, if u are quick with keyboard, and do not have connection problems - u can try to use cleaver(or DB) - wba combo. it will have 3.45 (3.55 in case of DB) base swing delay - and combined with high qui and haste it will allow u to swing same 4.0-4.2 weapons with (almost) cap speed while having extra damage from wba (instead of hand axe) as bonus.

comments are welcome.

 

[Runolaz]

I don't think it's possible even with a Healer BB for hast to make a SZ viable after 1.62. It's possible that a 5-Spec/SoulBlade can manage, but IMHO CB seems to be the only way to go. The only styles from LA that are worth using are Comeback/Frost Gaze for the stun. Doublefrost simply uses to much End and you'll be ooe before you killed the INF/NS.

Fully buffed from both Shaman and Healer I quess you still do ok vs other assassins, but against equaly buffed INF/NS it is hands down gonna be a sad show. As I see it only way for a SB to win over a INF/NS after 1.62 is to land PA or be better equipped/buffed.

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by Runolaz
As I see it only way for a SB to win over a INF/NS after 1.62 is to land PA or be better equipped/buffed.

ERM....................................................LOL?


thats called balance no?

 

[Runolaz]

Originally posted by froler-mid
ERM....................................................LOL?


thats called balance no?

You know Remi there is this thing called Albion board...

...and btw 1.62 is not balanced (if you missed out on that part)...expect your INF to get nerfed to oblivion too, so you better prepare.

 

[asphyxiation]

no cuz i've seen many infils and ns just unstealthing and moving towards me like tanks
over confidence or lack of patience to land pa?
sb do it infils do it ns do it
so whats balanced or not in this game its simply not for u or anyone to judge imo

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by Runolaz
You know Remi there is this thing called Albion board...

...and btw 1.62 is not balanced (if you missed out on that part)...expect your INF to get nerfed to oblivion too, so you better prepare.

more whine in mid baords atm

 

[osrim]

Attack capspeed is just BS...

I believe so...no one has ever proved there is attackspeed cap. But seen many posts at dev boards with even logs where ppl attacking many times in second (hth savages with their own haste, qui 250+ and celerity on). And im not talking multiple hits...new styled strikes in second.

It would be similar like in casting...no cap just mythic's bs talk.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by froler-mid
ERM....................................................LOL?


thats called balance no?

 

[Gekul]

Originally posted by froler-mid
ERM....................................................LOL?


thats called balance no?

No.

Runolaz said: "As I see it only way for a SB to win over a INF/NS after 1.62 is to land PA or be better equipped/buffed."

Which would suggest he thinks a Shadowblade who doesn't have superior buffs/equipment will not win. Which would mean on equal terms (ie, shadowblade isn't better equipped/buffed), the shadowblade will lose.
It's not called balance, no.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Gekul
No.

Runolaz said: "As I see it only way for a SB to win over a INF/NS after 1.62 is to land PA or be better equipped/buffed."

Which would suggest he thinks a Shadowblade who doesn't have superior buffs/equipment will not win. Which would mean on equal terms (ie, shadowblade isn't better equipped/buffed), the shadowblade will lose.
It's not called balance, no.

rofl, that is balance..

whoever has put the most effort into thier char should have the advantage, a shadowblade who is unbuffed, RR4, in epic armor should have _no chance_ against an inf or NS who is RR8, fully buffed in full MP armor he/she has spent in excess of 10 attaining. (including rare drops to cap everything)

if equal terms is not your view of balance, what is your view of balance?

 

[Aybabtu]

I really dislike the fact that Sala's off hand does more dmg then my main hand

 

[asphyxiation]

Originally posted by Aybabtu
I really dislike the fact that Sala's off hand does more dmg then my main hand

thats fully buffed and vs sb leather armor that has slash weakness
it should be a lot less vs infils or worse higher absorb armors

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by asphyxiation
thats fully buffed and vs sb leather armor that has slash weakness
it should be a lot less vs infils or worse higher absorb armors

Fully buffed: the common situation for a stealthers nowadays

LessDamage: YES
A lot of less: NO (alb leather is neutral to slash)

 

[Gekul]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
rofl, that is balance..

whoever has put the most effort into thier char should have the advantage, a shadowblade who is unbuffed, RR4, in epic armor should have _no chance_ against an inf or NS who is RR8, fully buffed in full MP armor he/she has spent in excess of 10 attaining. (including rare drops to cap everything)

if equal terms is not your view of balance, what is your view of balance?

That's not what Runolaz said. He said the only way a shadowblade would win is if they were better equipped. Which means that on equal terms the infiltrator would win.
Equal terms - infiltrator wins. lol?

 

[Thorarin]

Originally posted by Gekul
That's not what Runolaz said. He said the only way a shadowblade would win is if they were better equipped.

That's not what he said. He said the SB could win if he was better equipped OR landed his PA before the other assassin.

However, I'm not so sure they will win even if they land that PA, I'm guessing that even with that advantage they will still lose about half the time ( and don't humiliate yourself by calling that balance please )