saw this on vn boards

[Raven]

i could charm level 58 mind worms is old.emain pretty steady with my rr5 mincer. how does menta charm work?

i did have it somewhere, there is calculation. with 50+11 (i think it is) you can hold a sally and be safe, anything above that and it will resist a lot and end up messing you about, shame its a pulse really

 

[Takhasis]

Hunters can't charm for shit tbh

Obviously it makes sense that someone who blows a flute for a living would have a greater affinity with wildlife than someone who spends all his time in the wild

L40 is the highest animal a hunter can charm. Even our insta pop wolf is only 41...

which is really f*ckin sucky when mincers etc can charm L55+

Was on the receiving end of a Cait Sidhe earlier this week - saw it coming and tried to move away, but the range it see's is a f*ckin pain in the ass... buffed to all hell, then the git ML9'd it on me - ouch

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

i did have it somewhere, there is calculation. with 50+11 (i think it is) you can hold a sally and be safe, anything above that and it will resist a lot and end up messing you about, shame its a pulse really

a good rule for charming....

effective spec level (Skill + RR + Item skill) - 10

so a mincer with 50 instruments, RR 8(+7 skill), +11 instruments from items would be able to charm a lvl 58 with out looseing it very offen, add some + duration and it help aswell

 

[Nix]

a good rule for charming....

effective spec level (Skill + RR + Item skill) - 10

so a mincer with 50 instruments, RR 8(+7 skill), +11 instruments from items would be able to charm a lvl 58 with out looseing it very offen, add some + duration and it help aswell

It's actually (2xYourLevel + Spec) / 3.

Level 50, 48+11 light menta => (2x50+59)/3 = 53 level mob to be charmed safely.

Your mincer example would be (2x50+68)/3 = 56 level. 58 level with that spec would be safer for a mincer than a menty, they have less trouble with resists as they can spam charm, and wear chain... and can stun, and have speed, and have mezz, and can stealth, and have... Oh sorry

 

[Aiteal]

they can spam charm, and wear chain... and can stun, and have speed, and have mezz, and can stealth, and have... Oh sorry

You forgot warguard

 

[Aiteal]

L40 is the highest animal a hunter can charm. Even our insta pop wolf is only 41...

which is really f*ckin sucky when mincers etc can charm L55+

Was on the receiving end of a Cait Sidhe earlier this week - saw it coming and tried to move away, but the range it see's is a f*ckin pain in the ass... buffed to all hell, then the git ML9'd it on me - ouch

Not looking forward to meeting these
I take it the 300 unit agro range listed on alakazam is a slight underestimate?
I wonder why these pets were added to the frontiers again
I remeber 2 Sorc TL reports back the sorc TL complaining that they had dissappeared from the frontiers
Looks like he got his wish

 

[haoth]

they agro at 1500 prety sick.

 

[Maeloch]

The charm formulas seem okay as a guildline, but tend to overestimate the lvl you can hold perfectly by a couple (ie the highest lvl pet you can hold with no more resists than a lvl 1 mob would make).

Whatever forumulas say, in practice with the following total light you will hold these lvl mobs perfectly at 50th lvl:

61 or higher - 53rd
64 or higher - 54th
67 or higher - 55th
70 or higher - 56th

No idea about lower light lvls, might deviate from that pattern, not tested it. The above is tested quite a bit.

Re: cait sidhes. Afaik they never had See Hidden. It's possible I missed it, but I did used to camp mid mg room quite a bit in OF with one on aggro and never ever saw them destealth *anything*. Would destealth peeps instead spamming grey aoe nuke on mg doors. Give aoe spam on doors again!

 

[inqy]

just another reason to not play sb/hunter. so much anti-stealth in the game.

To compound this, no mid class has the ability to charm these mobs.

Hunters charm (FYI) is capped at about 42/43 I think and is limited to Animals/Insects. Most hunters stop beastcraft at 32 so can only charm animals at the level I quoted above. Insects would be 30something I'd guess. In reality very few hunters ever charm anything. Utterly useless ability as it's so crap.

 

[Darzil]

which is really f*ckin sucky when mincers etc can charm L55+

Was on the receiving end of a Cait Sidhe earlier this week - saw it coming and tried to move away, but the range it see's is a f*ckin pain in the ass... buffed to all hell, then the git ML9'd it on me - ouch

Presumably from a sorc, as Minstrels don't get ML9.

And I reckon Hunters should be able to charm pets like Minstrels/Mentalists, personally.

Darzil

 

[Azathrim]

Oops, if those pets becomes common, it's time to shelf the SB until Mythic gets around to bug fixing this.

 

[Tilda]

Oops, if those pets becomes common, it's time to shelf the SB until Mythic gets around to bug fixing this.

Because ofc everything that might have a negative effect on your beloved charachter is a bug!!
Why don't you go on a posting crusade somewhere else, like you did for poison spike?

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Bug or not, it is a bonus that charm classes do not need and should not have.

 

[Aiteal]

Ahh, I was right for once
The Sorc TL did complain about them being missing from the frontiers in a TL report

"Cait Sidhes, a favourite sorcerer pet, have seemingly disappeared from the new frontiers. This has upset many sorcerers, as well as the unfortunate Caits themselves "

http://vnboards.ign.com/daoc_tl_reports/b22181/72116765/p1/?0

Bug or not, it is a bonus that charm classes do not need and should not have.

Word

 

[Tafaya Anathas]

Always look on the bright Sidhe of life.

 

[Isunder]

Because ofc everything that might have a negative effect on your beloved charachter is a bug!!
Why don't you go on a posting crusade somewhere else, like you did for poison spike?

He was right that time wasn't he? Maybe, just maybe he's right now too, and a really screwed up "feature" makes it so that his chosen class is not worth playing.

 

[Tilda]

He was right that time wasn't he? Maybe, just maybe he's right now too, and a really screwed up "feature" makes it so that his chosen class is not worth playing.

No he made up a rough idea of what he thought was what was happening, when he had no idea of the decisions GOA were taking, then spammed it all over the VN boards to get a reasonable GOA decision reversed. Then, once mythic had made the statement in the news, he waffled on about the goa introduced bug and insisted the return dot mine to its abusable situation. ofc, if people had figured out how to cast 5 dot mines with no recast timer, then im not sure he would have whined so much. It was a good call by goa tbh, but we dont need to go back over it as no doubt he'll come in the valient defender again.
If he acctually left the bridge he normally camps, he'd probably find it far easier to avoid the mincers/sorcs who run with the pet.

 

[Azathrim]

You got a problem Tilda?

Not really sure it's worth trying to teach you history. You seem very set in your own little "la la" world. If you really want a recap of how that Poison Spike thing played out, feel free to PM me. But until then, leave your garbage and blindfolded views to yourself.


On this Detect Hidden Pet issue:
Ofcourse we cannot know if this is a bug or a feature. Those that likes it call it a feature, the more reasonable people call it a bug - that's how things are until the judge of suchs matters (Mythic) shares their oppinion (which they then can feel free to change at any time).

Normally I would give a list of why I label this a bug (and hope Mythic agrees). However, Im sure most people here already can see why it's a problem. Let us instead try something else and refreshing. Let us call in that special person from the local village and ask him to tell why this should be deemed a feature.

Tilda, you have the floor. Give us your best shot!

 

[Tilda]

You got a problem Tilda?

Not really sure it's worth trying to teach you history. You seem very set in your own little "la la" world. If you really want a recap of how that Poison Spike thing played out, feel free to PM me. But until then, leave your garbage and blindfolded views to yourself.


On this Detect Hidden Pet issue:
Ofcourse we cannot know if this is a bug or a feature. Those that likes it call it a feature, the more reasonable people call it a bug - that's how things are until the judge of suchs matters (Mythic) shares their oppinion (which they then can feel free to change at any time).

Normally I would give a list of why I label this a bug (and hope Mythic agrees). However, Im sure most people here already can see why it's a problem. Let us instead try something else and refreshing. Let us call in that special person from the local village and ask him to tell why this should be deemed a feature.

Tilda, you have the floor. Give us your best shot!

My little la la world involves talking to GMs, and testing things on the test server.
GOA fixed a bug which enabled you to cast multiple mines in 1 go, potentially a hugley overpowering bug. A side effect of this bug fix was that the in-combat timer on the mines came back. Something GOA thought was fine, as the documentation as I understand it, suggested there should be a timer anyway.
You found out and rallied your troops.
VNwars commenced and Mythic, in response to your spammed questions through feeback forms nodoubt, said that for now, no combat timer was the correct way.
GOA have 3 options,
1) undo the fix and leave the ability abusable for those who know how to use it.
2)Get a hotfix from mythic that cures the bug, but leaves the combat timer out.
3) wait till next patch, either with the combat timer or without and fix, as the abilities got fixed next patch.
Either way, for any option, discussions have to take place with mythic, and then mythic have to make a decision as to what to do, and then the have to create the hotfix or whatever if thats what they decide, this results in a wait.
After a while, mythic made a hotfix and gave it to goa, who hotfixed the ability, so the bug was fixed and you had your precious insta-dotmine.
What bugs me is that all the time goa are talking to mythic, every post you seem to make is accusing goa of just sitting there doing nothing.
As an E&E I talk to GM's and recieve information that I can't post on the forums, and it pisses me off when you go around accusing them of doing nothing, especially as mythic says its a bug!! when infact they have to wait for mythic to sort fixes etc etc.
Once GOA got the hotfix, it was on the server pretty fast tbh.

I have np with you whinging about your class, but it bugs me when people slate goa for no reason.
Comprende?

 

[Naffets]

I wanna be in a la la world

 

[Tilda]

I wanna be in a la la world

You can join me if you want!

Also, back on topic!

Some mobs have it some mobs don't, and they keep it when a pet is charmed. It was like this in OF and has always been like this, just because it's fotm all off a sudden it should become a bug?

 

[Skaven]

Out of curiosity Tilda, do you play an active stealther in rvr these days?

 

[Tilda]

Out of curiosity Tilda, do you play an active stealther in rvr these days?

I dont see that this has any relevance to my post or this thread.
I have one on the test server and at the time, i played it enough to know the bug needed fixing. But ofc, in rvr on normal servers, its far more fun to abuse a bugged ability right!
I'm sure if warlocks found a bug that made them able to refill chambers instantly, or at cap speed, people would be fine with them abusing that, right?

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

/get's popcorn and waits for part 4 ... the revenge of the nerd

 

[Melachi]

GOA fixed a bug which enabled you to cast multiple mines in 1 go, potentially a hugley overpowering bug

Im sorry, but you consider a pet with see hidden, a-ok.

But being able to cast a Snare mine and DoT mine every 5 minutes, to be "potentially a hugely overpowering bug" ?

I think its time to get some of those perspective glasses Tilda.

And p.s. I can agree with you on people being to quick to slate GoA (I was one of them myself recently), I understand they were trying to fix a bug, but it had been fixed on US servers in a difirent way.

 

[Skaven]

Was just a question, as you seem to think pets with see hidden isn't a big issue. And yep, pspike was a big issue at the time considering a stealthers 'target list' of things that we can kill nowadays has considerably shrunk what with brittle guards, SL etc. Im not quite sure (and I presume this is the bug we are talking about) how a dot and snare mine cast at the same time would give anyone the upper hand in a rvr situation - most fights for steathers are against each other, and the 1 or two that are actually against casters usually end up with the stealther eating dirt. Any fg passing over them simply stops, cures the poison and carrys on their merry way, unless ofc the stealther has a death wish.

Whilst I agree it was a bug, and should not be abused I think it wasn't as serious as some people made it out to be and could of been quite easily overlooked until the fix in the patch came into effect. Theres a slight diffrence between a warlock being able to refil his chambers instantly and dominating everything to laying a couple of mines down.

Back to the topic, SH on pets for me is a big issue, as its just yet another thing stealthers have to contend with to actually make any rp's out of this game. I remember the days when a solo caster running about used to be an easy target. Nowadays the 'surprise' factor of being a stealther counts for nothing.

 

[Darzil]

I remember the days when a solo caster running about used to be an easy target. Nowadays the 'surprise' factor of being a stealther counts for nothing.

Yup, now they can't set foot in RvR til they are ML8 (is it 8 for brittle guards?).

Darzil

 

[Azathrim]

<sigh> So off-topic Tilda - I wonder where the moderation are on these boards. But, as a moderater already participated in the the off-topic parts, let us take a shot for the uninformed.

GOA fixed a bug which enabled you to cast multiple mines in 1 go, potentially a hugley overpowering bug.

Are you here refering to the 1.80b bugfix Mythic made, that disallowed sumoultanous casting of Tanglesnare and Poison Spike? The very thing GoA debatable attempted to fix?

A side effect of this bug fix was that the in-combat timer on the mines came back. Something GOA thought was fine, as the documentation as I understand it, suggested there should be a timer anyway.

Notice how I use the word "debatable"? You see, GoA was themself very unclear of what it excactly was they attempted to fix.

There were two options at the time, something GoA failed to give an answer to in RN reports:

1) Attempt at fixing the 1.80b Tanglesnare/Poison Spike bugfix.
2) Attempt at disallowing insta-cast of Poison Spike incombat.

You found out and rallied your troops.

And the uninformed prejudice strikes again. Wrong Tilda.

I made a RightNow report.

VNwars commenced and Mythic, in response to your spammed questions through feeback forms nodoubt, said that for now, no combat timer was the correct way.

After making my RightNow report I waited. I even got an answer and a few follow up questions came along.

To cut it short, GoA didn't know why they made the change and they wouldn't be arsed to ask the responsible parties (the technicians).

Hence I asked on the VNboards how things work in the states. Naturally the americans got a little baffled over this, wondering if Mythic had started announcing bug fixes/class changes through their European partner GoA.

My guess is, that Mythic got quite a few feedbacks from angry americans - which leads to the Grab Bag where Sanya puts GoA pretty straight on the matter.

That leads to GoA finally wizening up and admitting it's the 1.80b changes that was the root of this issue. A Wise Choise (tm).

GOA have 3 options,
1) undo the fix and leave the ability abusable for those who know how to use it.
2)Get a hotfix from mythic that cures the bug, but leaves the combat timer out.
3) wait till next patch, either with the combat timer or without and fix, as the abilities got fixed next patch.
Either way, for any option, discussions have to take place with mythic, and then mythic have to make a decision as to what to do, and then the have to create the hotfix or whatever if thats what they decide, this results in a wait.
After a while, mythic made a hotfix and gave it to goa, who hotfixed the ability, so the bug was fixed and you had your precious insta-dotmine.

Certainly so. Highly appriciate GoA undoing what they broke.

What bugs me is that all the time goa are talking to mythic, every post you seem to make is accusing goa of just sitting there doing nothing.

Can you provide a few links to this? As far as I remember, I accused GoA of introducing a bug and thus argued it's their responsibility to get it fixed. GoA eventually did the correct thing, but it wasn't until late in the process actually informed GM's stepped in and handled this in competent manner giving proper information. Remember, it's ok a fix takes awhile as long as we are properly informed. That simply took too long to happen. Which is a shame as the proper information came and so did the fix.

As an E&E I talk to GM's and recieve information that I can't post on the forums, and it pisses me off when you go around accusing them of doing nothing, especially as mythic says its a bug!! when infact they have to wait for mythic to sort fixes etc etc.
Once GOA got the hotfix, it was on the server pretty fast tbh.

I don't think it's too wild a guess to say there were disagreement internally in GoA and probably between Mythic and GoA as well. Requiel in this thread says one thing, which Erivoss later turns out. Erivoss managed to keep his head calm and get things sorted. Requiel wasn't and didn't manage to admit he were wrong. Oh well, I have alot of respect for Requiel and the work he does. This is just an example that everyone can be wrong.

I have np with you whinging about your class, but it bugs me when people slate goa for no reason.
Comprende?

I totally agree.

Point is, I didn't slate GoA for no reason.

Don't fool yourself and think that the bug GoA introduced would have been fixed by itself hadn't it been for players reacting. I wasn't the only one that reacted and without the uproar this caused, I have no doubt GoA's bug would still have been on the European servers today.

What is a pitty though is, that it took suchs a long time. It would have been much easier if GoA just had taken the RightNow reports they got from various players serious and looked into the matter. Instead they had to be put straight in a public Grab Bag by Mythic.

 

[Wild]

back on topic

the see hidden ability that "some" pets have was actually added into the game with a patch many many moons ago .. might even be as far as Darkness falls patch.im sure it said something along the lines of "some mobs now have the abilty to see stealthed players. it also hinted that they may be charmable . i spent a lota time in DF and OF looking for a pet with thease very said abilitys. only one i found was the cait's.

i can remember using cait's in OF sticking on aggro and roaming near CS with my sorc and having doing quite well.

as for "is it a bug" id have to say no ..
as for "is it fair" id have to also say no also.

however it is part of the game and as said above just because people are using it to win doesnt mean it should be removed, the same theory can be said about sooooo much of the game ( cast times, intrupts etc etc etc .. )

 

[Shike]

from 1.81f

NEW FRONTIERS WORLD NOTES


Bug Fixes

- Cait Sidhe will no longer see stealthed characters.



how about that Tilda?