same delay weapons as cd/dw or haste effect?

[Bankotsu]

mhhh i still do not know what's better as a dual wield/celtic dual:
mainhand slow and heavy + very quick offhand to haste the mainhand or
mainhand+offhand same/almost the same delay ? or even
very slow mainhand + offhand that is a little bit quicker, but not too fast (0.5 delay difference max). i've heard the doublehit chance get's much higher if you use the same delays.. plz say your opinion and experiences if you are a merc/bm and have tested this .. narmasil uses bruiser (4.1 delay) and a quicker crafted weapon (2.X or 3.X)

 

[Bahumat]

the double hit chance is determined on the speed of both weapons. so best pick ones that are similar speed. i prefer 2 high dmg weapons as relying on evade etc is not good imo

 

[Tsabo]

My NS lvl 32 has a speed 2.7 main hand 2.2 off hand. Hit fast so I can get 2 evade styles off every 1 time I evade, but thats and NS and someone who has got a clue about speeds of weapons as I come from a long line of Casters.

 

[~Latency~]

My BM has a 4.1 speed mainhand (SoK) and 3.5 offhand (Croc tooth dagger) and it works really well with buffs but without the attack speed is kinda slow so it's tough to get off positionals when im solo

 

[Tualatin]

as DW/CD are the same;

take slow(est) mainhand, and fast(est) offhand. Make sure your offhand doesn't get below 2.5 speed (with quick). This way you'll hit hard anytime. Chances of speed are 50%, when both weaps hit, to be either the fastest or slowest.

The part about hitting with both weapons is a part determined by the speed? never heard about that.

 

[Bankotsu]

i'm a merc specced slash but wanna respec to crush .. think it's better with quick weapons cause of the anytime kombo 6sec stun. You can do 2 times the flank / shadow's rain combo with 2.5 crushweapons in that stun (requires quickness capped) .. i thought about taking battler+malice axe crush versions when 1.69 comes, but then i do not have a chance to do the shadows rain combo twice in my 6 sec stun and can only chain off the combo once (can only do it once in the stun, while it is not doubled dmg than the 2.5 delay, this would be 5.0, but it's 4.2). Additionally the Dual Shadows style deletes the targets current bleeding effect and writes it new onto the target, so everytime you use the Dual Shadow you do +25 dmg bleeding. Normal it ticks every 4 seconds, but with 2.5 delay weapons every 2.175 seconds (with 125 quickness and without haste procc/buff, with haste procc (20%) you are at 1.957 swingspeed) so you get doubled bleeding dmg than with 4.2 artifact weapons. this is about 50 dmg in 4 seconds while the bleeding would do 25 dmg with battler+malice axe. 50 dmg every 4 seconds is almost like envenom of a stealther

sure battler has got a nice ability (do not like the malice ability, the absorbdebuff after the 20 seconds is too much i think), but that's another thing because you can only do it every 15 minutes ^^ .. does not mean i do not like it .. very complicated^^

to the doublehit chance: its a rumor that u hit more often with both weapons some say it is real, some say it isn't and some like me are very frustrated because they do not know the truth^^

 

[Kicks]

afaik using slow main and fast off makes NO difference to your chance to double hit. The offhand weapon still swings even if the mainhand does not (at least this was my experience) with my shade I would often notice offhand swinging when main was not.

There was a very detailed explanation of the CD/DW systems posted on VN boards some time ago dunno if its still there

 

[Tualatin]

well, it is possible to hit with offhand, and miss with main hand.


If you say have a 4.2 mainhand, and 2.2 offhand, and you hit with BOTH weapons, there's a chance of 50% it will take fastest speed (without downgrading damage on mainhand next round). However, if you miss offhand.. which is possible with CD/DW you'll get a long waiting round.

and maybe.. 2-handed weapons proc more then 1 handed, because they are slower. So, maybe the same system works with fast and slow weapons (slow weapons missing less, and fast weapons missing more). So that on an average you have the same % of misses. But this is purely a wild guess..

 

[Simmern]

If you do a styled attack it will be the Mainhand weapon hitting (hitting with mainhand speed).

If you do a unstyled attack it has a 50% chance to hit with Mainhand and a 50% chance to hit with offhand (taking speed of the weapon hitting).

If you 'dual-hit' it will take the Average speed. So if you have a 4.0 spd mainhand and a 2.0 spd offhand it will hit with 3.0 spd).

And your chance to 'dual-hit' is ONLY modified by your Dual Wield/Celtic Dual spec and Dualist's Reflexes.

 

[Kicks]

If you do a unstyled attack it has a 50% chance to hit with Mainhand and a 50% chance to hit with offhand (taking speed of the weapon hitting).

And your chance to 'dual-hit' is ONLY modified by your Dual Wield/Celtic Dual spec and Dualist's Reflexes.

Sorry but that is utter rubbish - CD/DW spec increase your chance to hit with your offhand it is not 50% - iirc its 25% + about 0.6% per spec point in CD/DW unstyled or styled - gonna go dig out the information now.

http://daoc.catacombs.com/forum.cfm?ThreadKey=511&DefMessage=732328&forum=DAOCMainForum

Offhand Swing % = Level * .5% + .68% * CD/DW
@ Level 50 Swing % = 25% + .68% * CD/DW

With 50+11 CD/DW, you will swing both 66.48% of the time for full damage.

Higher spec in CD/DW also improves style damage when using CD/DW styles.

As a dual wielder you can use two weapons of different speeds. When both weapons are swung the game takes the average of the effective speed of BOTH weapons.

If a BM wields a 3.6 adze and a 2.5 dagger with 250 quickness, they will swing the adze at 2.17, the dagger at 1.55 and both at 1.86.

Useful calculator for this at http://daoc.nisrv.com/modules.php?name=Weapon_Speed_Calc

 

[Simmern]

Sorry but that is utter rubbish - CD/DW spec increase your chance to hit with your offhand it is not 50%

Now read what I said. If you do a unstyled attack and singlehit (okay, I could have added that to clear things up) it is a 50% chance to hit with mainhand and a 50% chance to hit with offhand.

 

[Bahumat]

next week on jerry springer we will be having a discussion on if Paladins should be given a +150 str bonus. join us then for a wonderful time

 

[Bankotsu]

and what about the styledmg? if you got a 4.2 and a 2.5 and doublehit, the styledmg will be calculated by a) the average speed, or
b) the mainhanddelay?
if a) then it does not matter which speed you take lol every time the same dmg because with same weapons you do the same dmg as the mainhand without styledmg. if you take a faster weapon as offhand, you will be hastened every time you doublehit, but the dmg of the offhand is weakened

 

[Kicks]

Now read what I said. If you do a unstyled attack and singlehit (okay, I could have added that to clear things up) it is a 50% chance to hit with mainhand and a 50% chance to hit with offhand.

Thats not what you said before

 

[Simmern]

Thats not what you said before

If you do a unstyled attack it has a 50% chance to hit with Mainhand and a 50% chance to hit with offhand (taking speed of the weapon hitting).

If you do a unstyled attack and singlehit it is a 50% chance to hit with mainhand and a 50% chance to hit with offhand.

----

Tell me the oh so big difference. I can see 3 words in the 2nd sentence that aint in the first. 'And', 'singlehit' and 'is'.

 

[Bahumat]

i bet this guy is practising to be an mp

 

[Simmern]

Well even you must be able to see that I am right.

 

[Bahumat]

i've only briefly read teh argument but the dmg output and speed affected by other weapon seems weird. now as i say i only briefly looked at what was posted but a quiclker weapon offhand would increase the speed of main hand, hence a little less dmg but faster

other side of the coin you do more dmg with off hand hence total dmg may increase slightly but will be slower.

im more of a dmg person i dont like the idea of hoping i evade or aparry tc i wanna do uber dmg fast!. ok i play a paladin but i enjoy playihng him as its such an awkward player to fight.

i may be wrong with what i said but imo get 2 weapons same speed but like speed 3.2 or somin, whatever speed you get i think get the same speed.

 

[Simmern]

Get the slowest and the fastest weapon you can find.
That way you do great damage with mainhand but also get the benefit of the haste effect. Unless you can get Battler/Malice ofc ^_^

 

[Kicks]

If you do a unstyled attack it has a 50% chance to hit with Mainhand and a 50% chance to hit with offhand (taking speed of the weapon hitting).

If you do a unstyled attack and singlehit it is a 50% chance to hit with mainhand and a 50% chance to hit with offhand.

----

Tell me the oh so big difference. I can see 3 words in the 2nd sentence that aint in the first. 'And', 'singlehit' and 'is'.

Well one says you will miss 25% of the time when doing unstyled attacks the other says you will hit with one weapon or the other assuming you hit so yes there is a big difference.

 

[Simmern]

Well one says you will miss 25% of the time when doing unstyled attacks the other says you will hit with one weapon or the other assuming you hit so yes there is a big difference.

They both say the same tbh.
And don't act as a noob, you understood it when you took your time to read it. And I think most discussing this will.

 

[Tualatin]

and what about the styledmg? if you got a 4.2 and a 2.5 and doublehit, the styledmg will be calculated by a) the average speed, or
b) the mainhanddelay?
if a) then it does not matter which speed you take lol every time the same dmg because with same weapons you do the same dmg as the mainhand without styledmg. if you take a faster weapon as offhand, you will be hastened every time you doublehit, but the dmg of the offhand is weakened

It will keep the damage it would normally do without dual hit.

 

[Fuzzy]

...you understood it when you took your time to read it. And I think most discussing this will.

You're obviously not talking about me - way too complicated. Even pets are too complicated for me. Pass me my golf-cart.

 

[Kicks]

They both say the same tbh.
And don't act as a noob, you understood it when you took your time to read it. And I think most discussing this will.

You've basically said one thing meaning something completely different correcting yourself in the 2nd post, something as different as saying:

'Arsenal always win'
'Arsenal sometimes win'

If you are not able to see the difference in what you have actually said then it is not worth arguing, but trust me the two things you said were completely different as I summerised last post.

 

[Simmern]

You've basically said one thing meaning something completely different correcting yourself in the 2nd post, something as different as saying:

'Arsenal always win'
'Arsenal sometimes win'

If you are not able to see the difference in what you have actually said then it is not worth arguing, but trust me the two things you said were completely different as I summerised last post.

Want me to rephrase it or do you understand the meaning?

 

[Kicks]

Want me to rephrase it or do you understand the meaning?

I understand what you said - I now understand (after your 2nd post) what you mean. As I'm everyone else now does, as has now been demostrated several times over and is getting boring.

I now await your forthcoming +1 post

 

[Ballad]

Whatever you roll (zerk/bm/merc) never ever have +qui in your SC.

My lovely Half Ogre mercenary tested this.
I buffed myself with red shaman buffs (Evoannia I love you) and ended up with the following stats:

389str
289con
230dex
170qui

I had two 98% orange weapons, both 3.5 spd.

My damage vs a crush neutral orange mob was like 70 - 130 with a high damage style. Sure I hit fast but it took me 24 seconds to kill the darn mob. I ended up with 48% health. I repeated this several times and the results hardly varied.

I clicked off my dex/qui, str/con and str buff.

276str
220con
100qui
160dex

This time my damage was 120 - 300 and it took me 15 seconds to kill the same mob. I ended up with 65% health.

The moral of the story was that never put any qui in your SC and always click off your dex/qui buff.

Yes this is off-topic but so what.

 

[Fuzzy]

That just depends how you want to play. If you'd like to evade (not sure how it effects parrying), then you want high quick. Evading is part-quick part-dex and, although nobody outside mythic knows the exact split, tests have shown it leans heavly towards quickness. Mythic have even given a wee clue by making one spec AugQuic2 before one can get dodger.
Personally, I'd like to see all light-tanks and assasins with low Quick

 

[Simmern]

I now await your forthcoming +1 post

I couldn't care less about my postcount.

 

[Simmern]

Your damage over time will be higher with more quickness. With several non-pve targets to kill I have no doubt high quickness > low qui.
Sure, a couple of low-qui tanks will be good on an assisttrain, but most pure tanks go the low-qui way.
All light tanks should imo go for 200+ buffed quickness.