RvR idea

[chretien]

Been chatting to some people about RvR and why some people don't do it, what seems to be wrong with the current situation and what could be done to improve RvR for the vast majority of random and casual players.

I know a lot of casual players - I consider myself one even though I play most days - and the vast majority of the ones I know don't RvR as they simply can't get into it. Few people will group an unknown and if they are lucky enough to get a group, there's a good chance it'll break up after two or three runs of being insta owned by high RR guild groups. So mostly the casual players that I know stay in PvE and level more alts that won't do any RvR other than grinding assassin missions at off-peak.

Meanwhile RvR players complain that there aren't enough groups running.

It seems to me that there would be more groups running if more of the mass of casuals felt they could realistically RvR. Part of that is getting a few RPs and the more useful realm abilities, and mostly it's just a case of getting out there and having fun in RvR to encourage people to spend more time inthe frontier. I'd say that in the main, having a series of good nights, building confidence and learning useful RvR skills like targetting enemy support, switching guard, learning the best time to fire off abilities etc would do a lot to boost the RvR population overall which can only be a good thing for all concerned.

My idea is quite simple and I won't claim to be the first to think of it, however I don't remember seeing it suggested before. Declare one night a week to be 'zerg night'. On zerg night, there's one RvR BG per realm and anyone who wants to havea go in RvR just joins the BG. The BGs can do whatever they like, if people are up for an RR, clearing their frontier, opening DF, breaking ports in an enemy realm or whatever, just get on with it. the only rule is that there's no add whine, no zerg whine and no-one gets turned down because they are the wrong class or the wrong spec.

The result will hopefully be a whole lot of new RR4-5s with a new taste for RvR and perhaps the confidence and the combat experience to set up new RvR groups. At worst /rw gets redrawn every week.

 

[Pirkel]

Absolutely love this idea.

There is currently a real problem with RvR especially on Albion where if you want to join an RvR group you have to complete an interview first stating your Realmrank, Championlevel, Masterlevel what realmabilities you have what color socks you're wearing etc... Even "key" classes will just get denied groups if they're not leet enough... which is fine but then later people whine there isn't enough good groups in Agramon to fight.

And I'm not even mentioning how hard it is to get realmpoints even for low realmrank "setgroups". Cause they are concidered to leet to add in iRvR ... yet they simply don't have the streetcred to not get added on in Agramon

Some old school zerging like in the first couple of weeks of New Frontiers would be good for a lot of reasons.

Count me in Chretien!

 

[Chronictank]

And I'm not even mentioning how hard it is to get realmpoints even for low realmrank "setgroups". Cause they are concidered to leet to add in iRvR ... yet they simply don't have the streetcred to not get added on in Agramon

You are completely wrong tbh
most people dont get intentionally added on in agramon until you do it yourself in which case you ask for it (treat like you want to be treated etc), most set grps are on irc so will chances are after a few times of jumping into fights they whined on IRC about it so all the grps kill you on sight.
i ran a few pug's none of the set grps added on us intentionally all night

As for iRVR, it is a zerg fest, anyone in a fg whining about adds in iRVR should be put on /ignore, it wont be a big loss as they dont have the capacity for coherent thought anyway

If you are killed because you havent done your PVE, thats your own fault for not doing it. Just the way it should be, are you honestly saying people who put half the effort into their characters should reap the same rewards? (altho in the coming patch this will be the case)

I found the best place for pug's is iRVR, roaming around away from bridges/zergs. Yes there is adds, but the fg's running about are generally the ones who arent good enough to compete in agramon so are roughly the same skill level.

In short i think its a nice idea provided the zergs stay out agramon to leave the people who want fg rvr to their business, which it is like now

 

[Pirkel]

In short i think its a nice idea provided the zergs stay out agramon to leave the people who want fg rvr to their business, which it is like now

That would rule!

If only the people who want fg rvr would do their business on Agramon ... and not go berzerk when a rr4 group adds on them in sight of the iRvR keeps

Anyway this isn't about what we think of adding that discussion is older then dirt...

 

[Pirkel]

If you are killed because you havent done your PVE, thats your own fault for not doing it. Just the way it should be, are you honestly saying people who put half the effort into their characters should reap the same rewards? (altho in the coming patch this will be the case)

Just reread your post and saw that...

No idea what you're on about ... assuming you're not replying to me there ...

Our group is ml10/cl5 fully templated... we're just rr4 so we're not going Agramon yet cause we know we won't do very well there... having 2 people completely new to the game and generally not having a lot of RvR experienced players in our group.

But apparantly we added on some of the cool kids in iRvR and are now flagged as an adding group...

How else we are supposed to get our realmpoints is completely beyond me but that's probably just my bad. But I'll follow your advice and /ignore the people whining about getting added on in iRvR ^^

 

[Bracken]

Pretty much what Chronic said - Fgs can go Agramon, the rest of us zerglings can go iRvR - don't need a special night for that, although the idea of people not being turned down for groups is also a good one to encourage.

Also liked Chronics point about the so-called fg's that do go to the iRvR zone...wouldn't know personally if it's because they're not "good" enough (such things don't interest me), but it's hilarious when they whine about you adding in Emain, then follow it with the obligitory "retard", the excuse of Agramon being empty and that we should respect their fg fights in the iRvR zone (Hi Jamie )...

 

[Tuorin]

Whilst that might get people some rps, can't see how by fighting in zergs that people will even need to change guard as an example you quote. Zerg rvr and fg rvr are totally different and playing in zerg wont help you other than having some rps for ra's.

Doesn't this happen every night between DC and Crim T4 for Mids and DC and graveyard for Albs.

The only thing that might be different is having a BG and moving en masse and BGs having goals. Soon as there's any movement on the current situation you'll just end up with iRVr being closed. I dont think there's any structure in any realm atm, just nuke nuke nuke or in case of warlocks prime in water, pop, fire, 1000 rp, back to water, prime, pop etc.

 

[Straef]

I think at least part of your idea has been realised of late, as there's plenty of zerg action in Emain, along with a growing number of pugs (or it seemed like there were more pugs out than before..). I personally like this situation, as I can run as a duo or in a pug in Emain, and I usually go Agramon with my set group on the usual sun/mon/tuesdays, tho there hasn't been all that much action there lately, mainly because the groups that are said to be looking for good fights turned to Emain for easy rps
I like the current situation, as it takes a lot more time and bother to solo/duo without being able to port right into the action, and I'm making better rps than I would without the irvr. Another nice thing is that if my group (usually me complaining though) gets fed up with getting rolled by rr11 groups, we can port Emain for a change of scenery.

 

[Pirkel]

7 posts in the thread that had nothing to do with classbalance what so ever and there is a Warlock whine.

 

[Tuorin]

7 posts in the thread that had nothing to do with classbalance what so ever and there is a Warlock whine.

It was caster generic, just pointing out Warlock doesn't have to nuke nuke nuke!!!!!1eleven

 

[Pirkel]

It was caster generic, just pointing out Warlock doesn't have to nuke nuke nuke!!!!!1eleven

Repped for a good comeback

 

[Tuorin]

On the topic of Pugs, theres q a few Pugs in Hib. In fact can't remember last time I wasn't in a pug!! Certainly not been a GG (!)or a fixedish a/s grp for so long ;/

 

[Zede]

dont worry, silly RPs inc soon.

problem isnt the high rr guild grps, its lack of enemy high rr guild grps. was like 6 fg of albs running in emain tonight, 3 or 4 of which were high rr - and only 3 enemy grps in total i think, none of which were high rr. The 2 bainshee grp was nice, only 1 druid ?

 

[Svartmetall]

7 posts in the thread that had nothing to do with classbalance what so ever and there is a Warlock whine.

And it was from a Bainshee

 

[Niko]

Bad idea, I don't like it.

 

[Chronictank]

Just reread your post and saw that...

No idea what you're on about ... assuming you're not replying to me there ...

Our group is ml10/cl5 fully templated... we're just rr4 so we're not going Agramon yet cause we know we won't do very well there... having 2 people completely new to the game and generally not having a lot of RvR experienced players in our group.

But apparantly we added on some of the cool kids in iRvR and are now flagged as an adding group...

How else we are supposed to get our realmpoints is completely beyond me but that's probably just my bad. But I'll follow your advice and /ignore the people whining about getting added on in iRvR ^^

wasn't aimed at you specifically, but the number of times people whine they are losing when they havent templated, toa'd, ml'd and nor done cl's and expect to beat grps who done just that is silly.

As i said just ignore the grps who whine in iRVR at adds, chances are they are there because they are rp farmign lowbies so deserve to be added on, or Vodka Fairys grp steamrolled them one too many times
either way if you see my grp in iRVR feel free to add, you wont get any whine (except maybe hansi yelling "dont add we were losing", but all in good humour )

 

[illu]

I think maybe they should implement an area, like a RvR battleground, where if you are sub rr5 (or maybe if the group average is sub rr5?), you can go there, but you get maybe a third of normal RPs (so that not EVERYONE goes there :>), so it's really just to hone your skills for the "real world". That way groups you encounter would not get too OP, they can get used to playing in FG v FG and once people start dinging RR5, they will have enough practice under their belts to maybe give high RR groups a bit more of a run for their money.

Oli - Illu

 

[Elitestoner]

for most groups zerg farming > 8v8 on agra tbh in terms of rps

 

[Chance]

Good idea m8 however there will always be ppl complaining about this "zerg day" cause either they have there GG running on that day ect

 

[Gear]

dont worry, silly RPs inc soon.

problem isnt the high rr guild grps, its lack of enemy high rr guild grps. was like 6 fg of albs running in emain tonight, 3 or 4 of which were high rr - and only 3 enemy grps in total i think, none of which were high rr. The 2 bainshee grp was nice, only 1 druid ?

Were 2 druids but you caught us in a bad time (my bad really ). I was trying to flank one of the other alb groups that were around as I had last attacker on one of em you caught us from the side which I wasn't expecting at all and on top of that I called a stupid fallback direction Oh well, was fun

And yes, that setup seems to work really nice. With a bit of practice and after our hero gets fotm status I think will be even better

To get back on topic tho: I really can't understand why people don't get some innitiative on this game. I see it on ML raids, in front of DL, that people rather shout LFG instead of starting one. This is the best way to get to know people in the first place as well. So what if you get rolled? We get rolled and we have a laugh, as long as we have a good fight and we try our best everything else is good

To mention an example, last sunday I started a pug without voice com so I thought wth, let's try something different. So we went and took Hurbury 4 and had an amazing fight between hurb and renaris with another pug and a couple of scouts, amazing in a sense that it was fun, horrible assist by both parties, fight lasted for about 5 mins as the damage output was low but it really worth it.

Anyway I'm ranting now and gotta go back to work

 

[Conway]

Whilst that might get people some rps, can't see how by fighting in zergs that people will even need to change guard as an example you quote. Zerg rvr and fg rvr are totally different and playing in zerg wont help you other than having some rps for ra's.

I agree they are different but Chretien is right that there are people who don't RVR because they don't know how to get into it. They aren't even in the pick up group stage. They PVE, maybe run solo on DC bridge a bit in iRVR. A zerg BG would maybe get them into a group at least. Its a start. The problem is always getting someone to run the BG.

As for iRVR, it is a zerg fest, anyone in a fg whining about adds in iRVR should be put on /ignore, it wont be a big loss as they dont have the capacity for coherent thought anyway

I like this one. Last night, peak time on DC bridge west, the zerg was fighting right in the middle of the bridge and I heard someone complaining at someone else for adding on his fight. Yes, sure, twenty people are fighting on that bridge and they are all going to magically know he has decided an enemy belongs to him and leave it alone.

Surely DC bridge and across to the neighbouring towers in iRVR is a zerg, and if you don't like zerg rules then try the other 99.999% of the frontier. Its not a spot for complaining at people who may be totally new to RVR. They are having a bad enough time anyway, since they are trying to learn how to RVR while high realm rank groups periodically run in and totally flatten them.

 

[Beltorak]

So what if you get rolled? We get rolled and we have a laugh, as long as we have a good fight and we try our best everything else is good

Getting rolled aint a good fight tbh.....

 

[Pirkel]

wasn't aimed at you specifically, but the number of times people whine they are losing when they havent templated, toa'd, ml'd and nor done cl's and expect to beat grps who done just that is silly.

Yeah agree ok sorry took that one to personal then :worthy:

As i said just ignore the grps who whine in iRVR at adds, chances are they are there because they are rp farmign lowbies so deserve to be added on, or Vodka Fairys grp steamrolled them one too many times
either way if you see my grp in iRVR feel free to add, you wont get any whine (except maybe hansi yelling "dont add we were losing", but all in good humour )

Thanks for the advice and lol @ Hansi ... think I'm gonna macro that

 

[Sharkith]

Monday nights used to be NE Alliance RvR night on Prydwen Hibernia where they would do just this and you would always end up in a random group of doom. It was always good fun always a laugh but it happened mostly before cluster - Alexandrinus, Wyst, Aran, Levelnix, Peat and a few others led those BG's and we had a ball because we could do naughty things like break port and wind up the iRvR crowd. It was always nice rps too when the zerg would come to try and take the tower back!

It was even funnier watching the whine on here !

We stopped that all because it is hard to sustain - it needs numbers. If people want zerg action and it is around taking keeps and towers and stuff like that I think its a good idea its what new frontiers is all about. I would certainly be happy to have a casual night out zerging where all that matters is messing around with rams and laughing at people getting lost.

It would help the server but one thing that will damage it will be the several high rr groups turning up who can wipe a BG out in like 1 minute or less. You will never stop them doing it and once it happens twice in an evening it is game over for your BG. Thats where the big problem with the proposition will lie. So whilst its nice those high rr peeps will just zerg your low rr zerg to death and they will laugh on here when they do it.

Sorry to be negative in the end.

 

[chretien]

Whilst that might get people some rps, can't see how by fighting in zergs that people will even need to change guard as an example you quote. Zerg rvr and fg rvr are totally different and playing in zerg wont help you other than having some rps for ra's..

It will give you more confidence and a taste of RvR, which is something that's hard to impossible to get for most of the casual players that I know.

Doesn't this happen every night between DC and Crim T4 for Mids and DC and graveyard for Albs.

Sort of, there is a big zerg and lots of pugs however that doesn't mean that everyone who wants to join in gets a group spot. I havea fully ToAd RR4, ML10, CL5 Cleric and 3 times out of 4 that I go to RvR I end up soloing assassin missions because I can't get a group. friends of mine who have less 'needed' characters have practically no chance of getting an RvR group spot - I've all but given up on my expensively templated ML9 Theurgist...

The only thing that might be different is having a BG and moving en masse and BGs having goals. Soon as there's any movement on the current situation you'll just end up with iRVr being closed. I dont think there's any structure in any realm atm, just nuke nuke nuke or in case of warlocks prime in water, pop, fire, 1000 rp, back to water, prime, pop etc.

That's the main thing for me at least. Working towards a goal is a lot more fun than mindlessly running around in a directionless zerg. With nothing to do or aim for, people lose interest and the zerg disintegrates, similarly if the zerg is being pulled in different directions by too many people who all want to be a leader. One strong leader per BG and even a basic plan and suddenly everyone works together and the fun increases exponentially.

 

[Haggus]

I don't like the idea of a zerg night but there is nothing stopping you from making a BG every night and going to zerg. nothing.

If your worried about the whine then you shouldn't.

It's just roleplayers moaning Hi straef !

 

[Straef]

for most groups zerg farming > 8v8 on agra tbh in terms of rps

Aye, it's fairly easy to just pick off randoms in a zerg, as a large number of them haven't even got any support classes with them, without having to worry about meeting too many tough groups. You live longer and kill more. The only thing that doesn't make it worthwhile is that it isn't quite as challenging as fighting actual balanced groups, and I'm sure a lot of people will agree that a hard fight lasting for maybe 5-10 minutes is a lot more fun than just screwing over a number of people without getting any resistance.

Getting rolled aint a good fight tbh.....

Aye, it's more fun to have a lasting even fight, whether you win or lose. It gives real satisfaction to fight a group until all your support is out of mana and you used all your tools :>

I don't like the idea of a zerg night but there is nothing stopping you from making a BG every night and going to zerg. nothing.

If your worried about the whine then you shouldn't.

It's just roleplayers moaning Hi straef !

Hi! And I'm a roleplayer... in a way :I
I'd be more than welcoming to the idea of having a zerg night on wed/thur/fri/saturdays, as I think the majority of the groups (or mine, at least) run sun-tuesdays, mainly.

 

[Sharkith]

Aye, it's more fun to have a lasting even fight, whether you win or lose. It gives real satisfaction to fight a group until all your support is out of mana and you used all your tools :>

I am glad you said that it seems to indicate to me that despite it not being a sport a lot of people like to treat it as a group sport. So you like a challenge but not to get totally owned or to totally own.

I agree with this and at the same time I think this is one of the biggest reasons why there is so much whine. Some don't get it - "Its just a game FFS." Some get it and are quite demanding wanting only 1 v's 1 or 8 v's 8 all the time. Whqat a lot of people should try to do is just chill out and remember shit happens.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I like this idea - it's not so much just getting a bg together - sure that works for one realm but then you'll either go RvR and find noone to fight (after 10 minutes of being zerged) or just get flattened by the gank groups.

If all three realms do the same thing there might well be other people of similar RvR experience (or lack of) to fight with.

 

[Tuorin]

Sort of, there is a big zerg and lots of pugs however that doesn't mean that everyone who wants to join in gets a group spot. I havea fully ToAd RR4, ML10, CL5 Cleric and 3 times out of 4 that I go to RvR I end up soloing assassin missions because I can't get a group. friends of mine who have less 'needed' characters have practically no chance of getting an RvR group spot - I've all but given up on my expensively templated ML9 Theurgist...

Some decent points. Alb seems to me to be different to Hib. I can't speak for Hib Exc, but there is no problem getting a rvr group in our a/s, well there is on hero if running uber opted. Won't be next patch etc. The only other time there is is when every person is in guild groups and you have 2 online in your guild. ;p Sure I've stood around DL waiting, but you can just go log a caster and roam around and get a few rps if you are bored or groupless. I cant play in a fixed group because of work and real life being different every week, can't commit to the same day every week, so just log in when I do.

The one thing Albs have is far, far, far more sorcs than Hibs have bards. A Hib group just doesn't run without a bard. Whilst fundamentally balancing and all that might be harder for Albs, running a pug is so much easier as I've known there be only 1 active bard in rvr alliance not that long ago, = no rvr whatsoever.

You have two very groupable classes there. I really don't know any druid that doesnt get a group in our a/s, hell we have to beg to log in alts. That might be one thing with lower pop thats a bonus, dunno.

Perhaps organising rvr groups via forums ( as mentioned by others) is the way to go, as well as BGs with goals. A lot do that on prydwen.net and even guild groups are looking for specifics.