RvR Eldritch vs Enchanter

[old.Aldias]

Ellooo guys.......

2day i talked with some guys and they told me that enchanters r better than elds in pvp....specially after the next patch....

And i noticed as well that that after xmas (maybe even b4) chanters had increased extremely fast than elds in hibernia....So i am very curious to c why evry1 prefer chanter than eld.....

kk i can accept that chanters r better for xp....(actually after SI i think animists r the best)....but as evry1 knows the main issue of the game is RvR......

So lets c ( according herald web ) whats going on in theory...( coz in practice only the class cant save u in rvr...u need proper grp etc...)

1. Elds have 3 spec that all of them can work nicely in rvr if u know to play them.....but chanter got only 2....i dont count the enchantments coz actually got only a base line dd in light and with full enchs...u do crap dmg with this light DD.....

2. Light Eld vs Light Chanter
Light Eld : Light Chanter:
209 DD 2.8secs 209 DD 2.8 secs
Aoe mezz -18% slow aoe
-65% vision -34% slow
-69% dex/qui

Eld with full light focus can get some good aoe debuffs in mana spec or...some resists debuffs as voider.....from the other side chanter as mana can get some resists debuffs as well....pet doesnt work in rvr anyway.....

3. Light Eld vs Mana Chanter
Light Eld : Mana Chanter:
209 DD 2.8secs 325 DD 2.5 secs
Aoe mezz 179 DD 2.8 secs
-65% vision -50% cold
-69% dex/qui -50%mtr
-50%heat

Again this eld had better spells coz are more useful in rvr.....pb really didnt work for grp vs grp only for zerg or keep defence....and if u have MoC for ur own defence from stealthers...
Exept this chanter has base line range dd that means more resistance from the enemy.....

4. Mana Eld vs Mana Chanter
Mana Eld : Mana Chanter:
325 DD 3.0secs 325 DD 2.5 secs
-73 con/str aoe 179 DD 2.8 secs
179DD 3.0secs snare -50% cold
desease aoe -50%mtr
-18% slow /124 DD -50%heat

Well here....obviously u can c the defference......of course mana eld is not so fast but c the oportunities that he has to use his spells....all these spells r really good in rvr....compare with mana chanter that he has a weaker range spell....and be honest...most times u use range dd than pb......


5. Mana Eld vs Mana Chanter
Mana Eld : Light Chanter:
325 DD 3.0secs 209 DD 2.8 secs
-73 con/str aoe -18% slow aoe
179DD 3.0secs snare -34% slow deseaseaoe -18% slow /124 DD

Here chanter is faster again but c what he can do compare to mana eld....i think mana eld wins with hudge deference here.....kk this chanter can kill lil bit faster but...what happens if a stealther will pop on him....he is dead ( with Moc is dead as well)....but mana eld...xexe defently not.....

I know that void is the "worst" for the 3 specs for the elds....well it was for me....i saw some voiders that really role sometimes....evrything is how u play...and i think if u know to play well all spec r nice.....

Eldritch vs Enchanter ....well here isnt only how to play but what type of spells u can use as well.....i know as i said already that chanters r role for xp but guys......be serious in rvr they have sooo less functional spells than elds....

I dunno if these stats r after or b4 the patch....whatever.....i wona know ( if any1 of u knows ) whats is gona be after the patch some guys they told me that chanters will become stronger.....well my question is how much stronger??....r Mythic is gona add sooo many spells (usefull for rvr) so they can pass elds????

Post ur opinions......is just a discusion for more knowledge for the new players and maybe a nice update news for me coz i really be very quite the laast 2-3 months.....i really wona know about the news in these 2 classes.....

Thanks!!

 

[-Nuked-]

because people know that people like themselves are closed minded to anything other then pbaoe spec, based on this they know that they will get to lvl50 faster then say .. a void eld. rather then roll something that may actually not be predictable in RvR they go for speed not quality - the amount of chanters i have killed in duel challenges to date is getting silly (yes with pet) .. its for 1 reason .. i know what to expect. . . . . quick cast, stun .. run to me .... pbaoe ..... 90% of the time .. thats 1vs1 .. in rvr its often just pbaoe .. im a light eld with mana mini dings so i can do a number of things ... instant debuff to stop the cast ... quickcast an AOE mezz to kill the pets movement then stun the chanter and use my light DD's to finish the job or even ... QC stun, pbaoe, nearsight sooo many options .. but im pritty sure most roll them for the fact they can get to RvR faster .. im not saying all chanters are the same but hey, its not hard to guess what to expect. just an opinion dont starting getting angry now ~ nuf respect goes out to tyka and any other light chanters .. i still prefer light eld but its nice when you hear about someone not doing the same old thing

 

[Nemue]

I would guess that many ppl roll a chanter simply coz it's the only class currently in hib that can do decent dmg with a ranged DD attack due to their heatdebuffs in teh manaline.

 

[inuyasha]

well

I would own you in a duel simply by qc stun you and blast you twice

Then again, im a light enchanter....

However...
people pick enchanters case of the base line...

Compare:
non spec bolt, a medicore dd and some other stuff with...
Pets, runsong, pet heals.

The light spec for enchanters today is THA gimp in rvr, eldriches is a little better, but still gimps. Single target is outdated with determination on all tanks + purges. Area is todays way to go, this is provided in mana. On a messed group, you cant use your debuff in the mana eldrich line (remove mess), and the pbaoe of enchanters is 1 sec faster...the pbaoe IS more or less all that matters in a group like that. The other stuff on the eldrich mana line is useless, like an area attack speed decrase thingy about as powerfull as a void blast

Its not a general growth of all enchanters, just the mana ones, and thats case mana enchanter is better for good rvr groups then a mana eldrich case of one additional cc (slow pet) and 1 sec less casting time on the pbaoe.

The results in a duel has nothing to do with anything in rvr

Comparing:
Light eldrich is better then light enc in most cases cept solo....but light ment is again a lot better, so why roll light eldrich today?
Mana enchanter is better then mana eldrich in most cases.
Both the remaining specs (ench and void) is rather gimped, cept the fact that the void spec do have its things. Hoever, its a spec made mainly to one hit kill, and you dont have a chanse to do that anymore on SCed armor =)

 

[inuyasha]

Originally posted by Nemue
I would guess that many ppl roll a chanter simply coz it's the only class currently in hib that can do decent dmg with a ranged DD attack due to their heatdebuffs in teh manaline.

Oh and this is also totaly right, forgot that =)

 

[old.Aldias]

I got ur point here......but as i said...rvr it isnt pbaoe.....and as a mage that i am i use pb only in particular reasons.....if u r 1fg vs 1 fg to use pb is completely silly coz u break the mezz if ur m8s had already casted....

Thats my main point.....chanters have faster pb but.....how often they used....eld (mana ) have instant debuff aoe str/con which is pretty good for ur grp and very bad for ur enemies....and this debuff doesnt break the mezz as well....

I know that evry1 wants a fast xp season to hit 50 but what happens after that??....nothing speciall i guess...

As u said to use pb to a far destance target isnt worth...so imagine chanters in rvr if the c 1-2 enemies ....what they r gona do?? .... run to them and pb...they ll lose important time which works nice for the enemies....cast dd? well....if they light i aggree abut if they r mana they r dead.....

What i try to say here is that with these stats ( dunno if Mythic will cahnge later ) elds >> chanters in rvr....

I am expecting a powerfull point to defence chanters....come on guys

 

[vulcan1]

Originally posted by nuked_inthehead
nuf respect goes out to tyka and any other light chanters .. i still prefer light eld but its nice when you hear about someone not doing the same old thing

Tyka's a light Eld not a light chanter. I started full light, lvled full light and definatly have no plans to respecc to mana. afaik Im the highest RR Light chanter on server or was the last time the sodding XML was working

 

[inuyasha]

Originally posted by old.Aldias
I got ur point here......but as i said...rvr it isnt pbaoe.....and as a mage that i am i use pb only in particular reasons.....if u r 1fg vs 1 fg to use pb is completely silly coz u break the mezz if ur m8s had already casted....

Thats my main point.....chanters have faster pb but.....how often they used....eld (mana ) have instant debuff aoe str/con which is pretty good for ur grp and very bad for ur enemies....and this debuff doesnt break the mezz as well....

I know that evry1 wants a fast xp season to hit 50 but what happens after that??....nothing speciall i guess...

As u said to use pb to a far destance target isnt worth...so imagine chanters in rvr if the c 1-2 enemies ....what they r gona do?? .... run to them and pb...they ll lose important time which works nice for the enemies....cast dd? well....if they light i aggree abut if they r mana they r dead.....

What i try to say here is that with these stats ( dunno if Mythic will cahnge later ) elds >> chanters in rvr....

I am expecting a powerfull point to defence chanters....come on guys

Okey:
I am a light enchanter, and all the darn dd does this day is to pull aggro, even in rvr

Its right as you say, pbaoe might not be very important once your enemy is messed but who cares? If the enemy is messed you have WON! Either way, with sc the debuff on any target + sun base line give the same or more damage then the light spec enc or eldrich. Light eldriches cant mess in rvr either way, since the duration is SOOO sad, its just ruining for the bard. That leaves nearsight to compensate for pbaoe, runsong and a pet...

Rvr is that darn pbaoe, and im not playing my mages anymore case of it In EITHER way, a light enchanter is better then a light eldrich case: They can still debuff their own light dd spec line, giving more damage + they have a pet dealing more then 200dd pr blast in addition to slowing its target, rendering it even better to take this single targets you so dearly want to kill.

When the group you fight however, is not messed (messed bard or purge) then the pbaoe comes in handy. The healers hide in the pbaoer if they get attacked, the pbaoer use MOC so they can spam it even while getting hit....and anything close to them dies

 

[Lessurl]

Don't underestimate nearsight. Can render enemy mages almost useless (specially top lvl one) and if u cast it on their healers those tanks who just rushed in to attack your bard are now out of healing range making them much easier to get off.

 

[Danya]

Mana chanter has the best ranged nuke in hibernia. Unless you have a mana chanter friend to debuff for yout light spec caster.

As for PBAE being useless in open field, you have to use it properly. If used well it can be very powerful.

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Eldtriches have more tools, so I fell that a good player can exploit and use them all to be a better player that the chanter who has relativly few options.

In practice the chanter abilites like speedsong and pet outweigh the bag o'trick the eldtich carries in a lot of situations.

But... in a good rvr group chanter speed isnt going to come into it much and then you eld is looking better in comparrison.

Then again, the eld spec ra sucks even worse than my void bolts, and chanters get that uber resist ra... .

 

[inuyasha]

Originally posted by Lessurl
Don't underestimate nearsight. Can render enemy mages almost useless (specially top lvl one) and if u cast it on their healers those tanks who just rushed in to attack your bard are now out of healing range making them much easier to get off.

I underestimate nearsight

 

[old.Xanthian]

Eld > Chanter

Chanter is uber boring to play in rvr due to lack of spells in the spec lines.

 

[inuyasha]

Originally posted by old.Xanthian
Eld > Chanter

Chanter is uber boring to play in rvr due to lack of spells in the spec lines.

pffff.
When did you last use area attack speed decrease?

Elds are boring to play in general since you have no run song!
ARGH at walking around with normal speed =)

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by inuyasha
pffff.
When did you last use area attack speed decrease?

Elds are boring to play in general since you have no run song!
ARGH at walking around with normal speed =)

a). When grouped with someone with pbt.

b). Nope, we group with people with speed 5

 

[old.Xanthian]

1. Elds dont have attack speed decrease.
1a. We do have Nearsight, AE Mezz, Insta AE Str/Con Debuff, AE Disease, Insta Dex/Qui Debuff

2. I dont solo, so no need for speed

 

[old.Aldias]

Mana chanter has the best ranged nuke in hibernia.

From when mana chanters have the best DD range? as far as i know mana chanter have only pbaoe and range DD from base line in light spec....
So if u r mana spec 50 or whatever close to 50 how with 20 or 26 or whatever close to 25lvl in light they got the best ranged DD?

or this dd ranged spell moved to mana spec?

 

[Danya]

Heat debuff, base nuke = 500+ dmage every 1.8 secs.
Spec nuke = 300 damage every 1.9s

Heat debuff > spec nuke.

Low spec doesn't matter with a decent + from items and the debuff they just cap (I know from experience having hit debuffed targets, I typically hit for 554, my cap, I have 24+14 light). Spec nukes suffer from resists.

 

[Tyka]

All specialisations are viable in rvr, depending on how you would like to play your char and how your team mates expect you to play one.

However i think eldritches got more tools to be used in different situations, most people spec mana because it's got the highest dmging spell in game (325 delve pbaoe dd). But 1 thing most of these people forget it _great_ great spells like aoe disease that is _EXTREMELY_ underrated in rvr. Did you know that with disease and the highest str/con debuff a berserker hit you for 50% less dmg?

Anyways elds got nearsight and i can tell you that is the most devastating spell in game, especially the 65% one is a insta death button if you know when and who to use it on. Imagine a healer using group insta heal, when they are nearsighted. Imo this is the way to kill most mid groups when they come from range especially when a light eld is leading your group. From 2300 range just nearsight their healer and you can completely stop worrying about getting mezzed, instaed or whatever.

Imo a well played eldritch can turn the tide of a battle if he knows what he is doing, compared to 90% of the classes around wich are just another "player" in a big game. So my vote would go for eldritch.

 

[-Nuked-]

tbh till now i hadnt heard of the aoe disease (unless its the instant aoe str/con debuff) .. what does it do? what spec line is it on? what level do i get it?

(eld still owns chanters ... we aint hibs primary spell caster for no reason at all)

ps. sorry vulcan i know that, was just very very tired ~_~

 

[VodkaFairy]

Agree with Tyka, there's more to mages than pbaoe + dd + stun. A while back in odins gate I killed 3 mids (purp, red and orange con) with my level 31 light eld. QC-aoe mezz can get you to a proper range to start nuking. An enchanter in close combat (solo) has to blow MoC or have very very good crits after the stun.

 

[VodkaFairy]

When you're diseased your strength decreases (don't know value, probably about 50) and healing someone with disease sucks (half effectivity of heals).

 

[Nemue]

I think, that since the resists recently went pearshaped, and the most ppl i tend to fight against have near 40-50% resists to my mentalists specc-dd (heat), the role of the casters suddenyl changed, what used to be, that all casters could deal proper damage at range is no more,and thus casters can no longer do all of what they once could, only a very few caster classes can still deal good dmg at range.

Imo this is the current situation:
Elds:
Light: pure utility line these days, same DD as other lightspecced caster and equally suffering from the resistissue, this line has great utility tools to help the group, and is still viable due to those instruments, however damagedealing capacity without having a friend debuff is next to pathetic.

Mana: another line with great utilityspells, the pbae in this line makes it quite attractive as it still deal massive dmg in the right circumstances, and in those situations where u cannot use the pbae, you could always fall back and be the utility-caster.

Void: supposedly to be a pure dmg-line, apart from the great dmg of the bolts when used in the right situation the dmg of this line pathetic, decent utilities in certain situation, GTaoe is always very useful in stationary fighting, and the debuffs are quite good, altho not nearly as useful as the chanters as few have spells that deal energy/spirit/body, energy being the most useful as pbaes and DoT's are energybased, body is good to increase mezz-time and assassinpoisons, but those situations where are rare to nonexistant.

Chanters:
Light: Suffers like the rest of the lightspecced caster-community, and having a lightline made up of only a speccline DD and attackspeed-debuffs i class this line as one of the weakeast, the attackspeed-debuff cast on certain classes like the zerker makes them hit like gods when they hit. Weak dd since the resistissue popped and almost no utility.

Mana: The greatest dmgdealing caster currently in hibernia, but nearly no utility at all, the heatdebuff + baseline nuke makes this caster a dmgmachine, and wth pbae in the same line, yummy. the only utility in this line tho is the debuffs, and sadly nearly no chanters i've seen seem to know how to use them to help their fellow casters. in short, this class is about dmg and nothing else, if you want utility then roll an eldritch.

Enchantments: weakest line of them all imo, with the coming dmg-buff nerfs this line isn't even good for helping ppl plvl anymore, the petspells is just a joke, who uses the tankpet to kill these days anyway? in short: the one who rolls an enchantment caster either ahs too much spare time or is suffering from disillusions.

Mentalist:
Light: this class is similar to the light enchanter, supposed to be a good dmgdealer at range but since the resistissue they can't nuke for shit, the AE-DD is if possibly even worse than the singletarget DD due to the radius dmg-dropoff. no utility at all whatsoever in this line, the charm is a manadrain and is useless save for breaking mezz, if ur mezzed the charm is broken and the mob is released, and it will break your mezz, problem is that if the pet is reasonable strong it will not only break ur mezz, it will kill u too. this is also one of the weakest lines due to the lack of utility, nothing to fall back on like the elds.

Mana: I don't really know how the DoT'ers are suffering from the resists, i would recon they have similar issues, however atleast Mana-ments have a great manaregen and HoT to fall back on to reduce downtime, not much bit atleast some utility.

Mentalism: The second weakest speccline after enchantments, this speccline atleast offers some utility but lacks dmgdealingcapacity totally. near druidheals when specced high, a singletarget mezz that's decent when it lands on occasion. this is basically a clothwearing healer with QC and a focusstaff, which lets them cast more heals than naturalists. Can use Confuse to get rid of PvE aggro, but all in all a very boring and weak line.


This pretty much summs it up, there's 2 types of casters, utilitycasters and dmgdealing casters, elds being the majority of the utilitycasters, and manachanters being those that want to do
dmg. the rest i recon are those that like pain, lots of pain.

 

[Brennik]

On a messed group, you cant use your debuff in the mana eldrich line (remove mess)

You use it BEFORE the mezz lands. Instant and all. Getting the ae disease in before mezz is the tricky part

Plus it's amazingly good at keep attacks. Debuff the cabby dotting on the wall, disease after and then you got a wall of targets that are not moving anywhere ("You are heavily encumbered and cannot move."). Then just go happy with ae nukes, I'm sure they'll think twice about getting up on the wall.

 

[Tyka]

Not sure who you quoted bren, but insta aoe str/con debuff does not break mez so you could use it after mez have landed as well.

 

[Brennik]

That would be inuyasha, but good to know. I too thought it still breaks the mezz. Well then, even easier, all you have to concentrate on is beating the bard in landing the disease before mezz then

 

[<Harle>]

I'm not really sure, but as far as i have experienced it yet group-heals are not affected by nearsight, and I'm not sure if spread-heals and batery of life are...

 

[old.Aldias]

Posted by Nemue
Mana: The greatest dmgdealing caster currently in hibernia, but nearly no utility at all, the heatdebuff + baseline nuke makes this caster a dmgmachine, and wth pbae in the same line, yummy. the only utility in this line tho is the debuffs, and sadly nearly no chanters i've seen seem to know how to use them to help their fellow casters. in short, this class is about dmg and nothing else, if you want utility then roll an eldritch.

kk...i got ur point here about debuff + base line DD but......
in rvr how often u use this? I mean that this debuff break mez and has 2secs cast time so.......if we say u wona nuke a target u need to cast stun first then debuff then nuke...here u lose 4secs at least 2secs for stun + 2 secs for debuff b4 start to nuke and the same time u lose 4secs from stunned target.....

From the other side mana eld has instant debuff str/con aoe which more usefull and doesnt break mez as well and is the highest debuff -73 str/con......

My point here is that chanter from statistics has better dmg and i aggree with that but......the whole thing is how often he use these spells....and compare the time he needs to have the better result dmg , is it worth it?

Posted by Nemue
This pretty much summs it up, there's 2 types of casters, utilitycasters and dmgdealing casters, elds being the majority of the utilitycasters, and manachanters being those that want to do

I aggree about chanter can be dmg machines in theory.....i dont really think they did in practice coz u need to have perfect conditions to have these amounts of dmgs as metioned above....

For elds i cant say that they r just utility casters coz they have good dmg ( well ...not so fast as chanters) but this is still counts for the enemies.....

In the end when an eld go out there (rvr) has more oportunities to succed coz he has more usefull tools in rvr than a chanter....

Both classes r usefull in rvr...actually all the classes in all realms if u know how to play them....

And as i said many times b4 ur grp make ur character UBER not ur class or spec itself....teamwork....co-operation...remember that

 

[oblivion_6]

u dont mention void elds

my voidey can 1 shot rangers and other mages if i spot them soon enough

No chanter can do that at long range

 

[boni_ofdavoid]

Originally posted by oblivion_6
u dont mention void elds

my voidey can 1 shot rangers and other mages if i spot them soon enough

No chanter can do that at long range

Dont one shoot the poor rangers Obli! They are on our side and have enough trouble as it is