russians in teh sky

Opt1

Fledgling Freddie
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Aye.

Its all pathetic posturing. Quite why Russia feels the need to continue its cold war stylee posturing like an angry teenager/terrier is beyond me - it should be clear to them that the world has moved on and basically doesn't give a toss about them or the threat they pose anymore..

..Unless they start trying to poison more people and have their planes fly over the houses of parliament of course.

Do they want another cold war/centre-of-attentionarama?

Then again, supposedly we had british agents talking to rocks in some of the parks in Moscow.. so there may well be more to it.
 

Tom

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the world has moved on and basically doesn't give a toss about them or the threat they pose anymore..
Which is exactly why Putin is re-investing in their military. Not to mention that they've laid claim to a large area of the north pole, reckoned to hold massive deposits of mineral wealth.
 

Embattle

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Don't you mean we are re-investing in there military :)
 

Chilly

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They are doing it because the US keeps building missile Silos all over the bloody planet. Supposedly to protect itself from the middle-east, but theres a much cheaper way of doing that: get the fuck out and stay out.
 

00dave

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Dammit I just got out of the airforce now I can see me being called up again. Bloody ruskies!
 

Opt1

Fledgling Freddie
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Which is exactly why Putin is re-investing in their military. Not to mention that they've laid claim to a large area of the north pole, reckoned to hold massive deposits of mineral wealth.
You'd think he could find better things for investment in this day and age =/

And that North Pole business will no doubt cause problems somewhere down the line..

I'm never quite sure how claiming land, places like the North Pole etc. works these days - everyone's got an equal right to it as no one lives there..

Am sure the moon/Mars/asteroid belt will cause problems eventually..
 

00dave

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North pole isn't land mass it's just ice so really nobody can claim it. Antarctica is a different story, a treaty was passed a while back that forbids any military activity on the continant.
 

DaGaffer

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North pole isn't land mass it's just ice so really nobody can claim it. Antarctica is a different story, a treaty was passed a while back that forbids any military activity on the continant.
Course they can claim it. Just like we divided up the North Sea with Norway. You're not claiming the water, but the land underneath it as an exclusive economic zone. The Russians won't get away with claiming all of it in the end, but their resurgent military is a all part of Theodore Rooseveldt's maxim, "speak softly and carry a big stick".
 

Wij

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Putin is being as arsey as possible so that other countries will offer him a more generous percentage of all his ludicrous claims to shut him up. Standard bully-boy tactics.
 

00dave

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Course they can claim it. Just like we divided up the North Sea with Norway. You're not claiming the water, but the land underneath it as an exclusive economic zone. The Russians won't get away with claiming all of it in the end, but their resurgent military is a all part of Theodore Rooseveldt's maxim, "speak softly and carry a big stick".
I'm talking about from a military point of view, you wouldn't want to leave a multi million rubel installation on an ice shelf no matter how stable it appears to be. Especially with all the global warming going on. I'm no expert as I'm sure you've guessed but I doubt the north pole is worth a lot. As previously mentioned it's all just a show of force by Putin.
I doubt mutually assured destructuion even applies anymore. I'm sure the top scientists have been working since the cold war on a nuclear counter measure system and with all the technology and time they've had they should have something by now. So now more painting yourself white and ducking under the table when you hear the alarm.
 

DaGaffer

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I'm talking about from a military point of view, you wouldn't want to leave a multi million rubel installation on an ice shelf no matter how stable it appears to be. Especially with all the global warming going on. I'm no expert as I'm sure you've guessed but I doubt the north pole is worth a lot. As previously mentioned it's all just a show of force by Putin.
I doubt mutually assured destructuion even applies anymore. I'm sure the top scientists have been working since the cold war on a nuclear counter measure system and with all the technology and time they've had they should have something by now. So now more painting yourself white and ducking under the table when you hear the alarm.
Actually it's precisely because of global warming they're doing it. As the icepack retreats the northern coast of Russia will become navigable (the Northwest Passage is already opening up over Canada for the first time in centuries), and it will make it easier to access the potentially HUGE deposits of oil, gas and other minerals up there. The Russians won't have to build on the ice itself because it won't be there anymore. From a Russian perspective, what they're doing is perfectly logical.

As for MAD, don't believe the hype about US missile defence, its bollocks. But it doesn't really matter, all the Russians have to do is make the option of fighting them of the Arctic look expensive and unpleasant. In reality the resources of the Arctic circle will get divided up between the Russians and America/Canada, with a few scraps left over for Norway and the EU.
 

Dukat

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. I'm no expert as I'm sure you've guessed but I doubt the north pole is worth a lot.
From what I hear there is a bloody fortune in oil under the arctic, hard to get at but I'd imagine it would be well worth it.

As for securing it, it would probably be more about naval/air superiority than actually putting many permanent bases up there. All of which is probably academic anyway, it'll all be politics and strong words rather than much in the way of actual fighting I should think.

Far too cold for derring do up there in the arctic, better to keep it in the middle east, much nicer weather there! :D
 

00dave

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From what I hear there is a bloody fortune in oil under the arctic, hard to get at but I'd imagine it would be well worth it.

That's what I meant, yes there's most definately a lot of untapped resources but getting through the ice at it's present state and then the sea would probably cost more than it was worth when there are still so many easier to get to. And when our cars and plasma screen TV finish the global warming job it'll be easier.

To be fair with the ice melting then the Russians aren't really doing much wrong, they'd be doing what we're doing in the Falkland islands. As I previously mentioned there is no land mass there so (in a logical world) the ocean could be divided up between the closest nations. Although knowing the Ruskies they'd move move toward the Canadian side eventually.

And I'd just like to point out that I wasn't aware there was any hype about a nuclear defense system, I just think they've had enough time to come up with something. Although having said that if the yanks can mistake an RAF tornado for a scud missile then there's not much hope is there.
 

xane

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They are doing it because the US keeps building missile Silos all over the bloody planet.
This is probably the more correct answer than anything to do with the Artic, more precisely it's the anti-missile silos being planned in Central Europe which caused Pooty-putin to choke on his vodka a few months ago.

I doubt mutually assured destructuion even applies anymore. I'm sure the top scientists have been working since the cold war on a nuclear counter measure system and with all the technology and time they've had they should have something by now.
MAD is still an issue but less so as the only nations that possess second-strike capability are either "friends" or no longer ruled by meglomaniac ideologies. The 1972 ABM treaty held MAD in place, now it is no longer relevant it has been abandoned (by the US at least) and Russia is a bit upset by that, seeing as it has virtually non-existant practical anti-missile capability and the US/Israel have been developing them for years (see Arrow missile).

Of course all of that changes when Israel, Pakistan, India and Iran all get nuclear armed submarines, or China and/or India start developing orbital launchers with their new found space technology.
 

dysfunction

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I'm sure the Russians are making claims where the Ice sheets have melted already/will melt within the next few years...I don't believe they have staked a claim for the entire region! The media have probably hyped this up to more than it really is.

They are bold but they are not that stupid!

I really don't know what all the fuss is about.
 

Doomy

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Lets hope they dont break the ice with those there bombs in the north pole..
 

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