Rant Royal mail

[Bahumat]

Now the Guardian has learned that Amazon.co.uk has cancelled its long-term contract to use the Royal Mail for parcels over 500 grams and will use a rival service, Home Delivery Network (HDN), which also delivers for Tesco and Argos.

I believe the usual weight of a dvd and case is 190g? So most of our purchases wont matter as Royal Mail will still deliver.

 

[00dave]

postie just been now, running a bit late lol. But we live out in the sticks so our postie gets a van and I think the van driving posties are happier than the walking and cycling posties.

 

[Bahumat]

Very nice forum..

Please contact me... I am collossally stupid...

ooh yes please! Can we be friends?

 

[Noc0de]

I believe the usual weight of a dvd and case is 190g? So most of our purchases wont matter as Royal Mail will still deliver.

That's a very good point. We're 3 pages in you're the first person to actually say that.

I do actually wish that the likes of HDN etc would deliver my parcels though. The amount of DVDs/games/books etc I've had go missing in the last couple of years is nuts. I've had to request that the likes of Amazon/Play etc resend about 6-7 items because I've never received them.

I've obviously reported this to Amazon/Play to get them resent, and I believe they in turn report them to Royal Mail. But I'm convinced there's plently of posties (perhaps temps?) who are quite happy to swipe items from the post. Maybe they consider it supplementing their pay, but it's damn annoying.

 

[Bahumat]

That's a very good point. We're 3 pages in you're the first person to actually say that.

I do actually wish that the likes of HDN etc would deliver my parcels though. The amount of DVDs/games/books etc I've had go missing in the last couple of years is nuts. I've had to request that the likes of Amazon/Play etc resend about 6-7 items because I've never received them.

I've obviously reported this to Amazon/Play to get them resent, and I believe they in turn report them to Royal Mail. But I'm convinced there's plently of posties (perhaps temps?) who are quite happy to swipe items from the post. Maybe they consider it supplementing their pay, but it's damn annoying.

Hehe I get the impression not everyone read the link

i've not had something as bad as them not delivering....I find they deliver it to the wrong address! Luckily it was to an old lady so I doubt she was thinking of stealing my copy of Champions Online lol. She brought it round bless her!

 

[Jeros]

As a former postie i can say:

If we cant get to your front door and/or your letterbox you dont get your mail

If you have a dangerous dog in the front garden, you wont get your mail but you may get a visit from the boys in blue

The man walking down your front garden with the big red bag with "ROYAL MAIL" written on it is NOT a trespasser and should not be told to "get off my property or ill come out there and beat you"

We do not know where "the postcard from your niece in cyprus" is

Postcodes are designed to be USED!

Try not to make your packages look like bombs

No stamps, no delivery



And at XMAS, even hireing casuals, there is not nearly enough staff

 

[Scouse]

Yeah that's a great way to have a discussion mate. I expect dave will see your point, accept it and provide an interesting, thought provoking counter-argument.

Or he may just call you a ****. Who knows?

Fair enough. Point taken. I'll try to be less inflamatory in this post.

(Note try).

You really are a nasty piece of work aren't you Scouse.

I can't even imagine what drove you to make such a shortsighted and ridiculous statement.

Ah dave. You shouldn't be such a pussy.

But I will explain why I made a "shortsighted and ridiculous" statement:

{I was paid bugger all}....And that could be anything from 40 to 84 hours a week, so no sympathy for the posties from me.

You posted your pay and living conditions, and your reasoning was because you accepted low pay and conditions then posties should do as well. Nice argument.

If I edit my response to remove the offending word:

Just because you were prepared to accept such atrocious living conditions as a single man you think that posties, who have families, should live like shit?

I think it's a fair point (with logic that isn't "childlike").

Can nobody, ever, question what they get paid just because you got paid worse than them and you didn't mind? Or does it just apply to postmen?

Vet nurses. My ex got 8 grand a year. That's all they're worth though, right? I mean, they don't get shot at or anything?

You've said some really simple minded shit recently but insulting members of the armed forces (because by your childlike logic they're all dumb enough) is a new low.

Firstly: I will take the piss out of the armed forces just as quickly as I'd take the piss out of anyone else. You're not "special". Stop believing the hype.

Secondly:

People like Scouse who only think of money wouldn't have the guts to sign up even if it were 30 grand a year.

Maybe it IS because I'm gutless eh? Takes a big man to kill people on the say-so of a virtual stranger (which I believe is in the job description). What a wimp I am for not jumping at the chance, eh?!

Or maybe, I wouldn't sign up because I have ethical issues I couldn't resolve, although the lifestyle is appealing. I don't think we shouldn't be in places like Iraq or Afghanistan (and neither do the Afghans, judging by the whooping we're getting). Nah. It's not principles/ethics/the shocking pay. I'm definately gutless...


Jealousy is what your arguments are really all about. "I got paid crap, they do a similar-level job - they should get paid crap too."





Next topic:

16 grand a year is a fucking great pay where I live.

Again, no offence, but move then Trem!

I left my single-parent, poor-as-shit home for just that reason. I went to Uni and did Envionmental Management, got a job but soon realised that the wage ceiling (should I ever reach it after years of hard slog) was about 30k.

"Fuck that". I thought, and went into IT. Got made redundant after 12 months. I used that setback to motivate myself and started my own business and went contracting. After a while in that I took 5 grand of my own hard earned and put myself through some courses (went to India 'cause it's cheaper).

For a number of years after that I earned well, but had an accident that put me out of work (on no income or benefits) from December 2007 until September this year. I've now landed an OK contract and I'll be out of debt by December.

What I'm saying is:

If you earn shit - change your job
If you can't get another job because you lack the qualifications - go get them
There IS money out there - but if you do what you've always done you'll get what you've always had...

By Dave's rationale I'm gutless because I didn't join the armed forces on 16k.

I hate to say it dave but given a choice of working hard and bettering myself, at my own expense, for a better wage, or joining the armed forces on 16k..... which one should I have taken?

Well, of the above one seems sensible, the other? Well, I can't say what I really think - last time I used that word you got really offended....

 

[Scouse]

Nice dose of reality about posties

Good on you that man.

 

[Furr]

Since I hardly have need for the post apart from the odd delivery by companies that still use Royal Mail I welcome this latest industrial action!

Why?

Because the public will get angry with having their Christmas post fudged up which in turn will make it a hell of a lot easier for the Conservatives to properly privatise the whole thing when they win the election in 2010.

 

[00dave]

Work has never been about money to me so why would I be jealous? As long as I'm comfortable with my income I'm happy, to me the type of job comes first. It may sound silly to you but I'm not greedy and it's how my mind works, I'm currently still trying to get into the police force.
The job I'm doing now pays fairly well and is a very important part of the medical process so I'm fairly happy with it (just not the people I work with).
The same goes for the armed forces, I DID NOT JOIN FOR THE MONEY, in fact I took a pay cut to join up. It's all about the experience of it all. And my job was logistics so never had to kill anyone (almost did after the london bombings but that's another story).

Also I believe you just contradicted yourself there. Originally you said sarcastically that these posties cannot move and get better jobs, then you tell Trem to move to another area with better pay. You say that there's money out there to be made, if you haven't got the qualifications get them blah blah blah. Do you think posties are under appreciated students with qualifications coming out of their ears or something, these are unskilled workers (because postal service cetainly isn't a trade) doing a job that is probably the best paid job in their area, tbh honest they should be grateful they have a job atm.

Actually I think that sums it up, 16k for an unskilled job is actually bloody good.

 

[Ormorof]

i loved our postman hes a hero, sometimes we even got mail twice in one day! and he always tries to leave my post next door if no one is home to sign for the packages

that said we had no dogs and generally werent angry people

nowadays i get almost no mail because ive just moved house and all i get is bills

 

[Scouse]

Also I believe you just contradicted yourself there. Originally you said sarcastically that these posties cannot move and get better jobs, then you tell Trem to move to another area with better pay. You say that there's money out there to be made, if you haven't got the qualifications get them blah blah blah. Do you think posties are under appreciated students with qualifications coming out of their ears or something, these are unskilled workers (because postal service cetainly isn't a trade) doing a job that is probably the best paid job in their area, tbh honest they should be grateful they have a job atm.

Actually I think that sums it up, 16k for an unskilled job is actually bloody good.

Actually, I was aware I was contradicting myself.

It's a double edged sword for me - on one side I believe that 16k is a crappy wage, especially when you compare it with the income of, say, hedge fund managers (who IMHO do a less important job than posties). Therefore, I think the fact that they're attempting to stand up for themselves is a good thing - and I support it.

On the other side - I think if you get off your ass and try really hard there may well be reward for it. However, this is not guaranteed - there are risks involved and it's not for everyone.


So yes. I support the posties and their attempt for a fairer solution against a corporate structure that robs the masses of a decent income.

Also yes - I support people who want to make it happen for themselves. My advice for Trem was meant as a "you can do it" not a "well I did this therefore you should get off your ass..."

 

[Scouse]

Actually Dave, I still want to pick you up on this:

Work has never been about money to me so why would I be jealous? As long as I'm comfortable with my income I'm happy, to me the type of job comes first.

If jealousy isn't the case, why do you take the stance you do with the posties?

Is it simply a case of "I was happy on 16 grand, therefore they should be"?


Unfortunately, we don't live in anything approaching a meritocracy, so people get paid random amounts regardless of "worth", made up by rich people who say things like "well, nurses are worth 18k. Yes yes Tarquin, I know you're a glorified office boy who plays golf for half the week but you went to Eton don't you remember, and are therefore worth £350k/pa. If we paid the nurses more we'd have to reduce our salaries!"...

...so when posties kick up a random fuss saying they want to earn the "national average wage" (which is allegedly ~£25k btw (pushed up by hedge-fund managers)) - then I say good on 'em.

 

[Tom]

Unfortunately thats what the modernisation is needed for. Letter sending is probably getting rarer and online retail package sending is on the increase as the highstreet retail market dies.
Posties are happy to deliver letters because they don't weigh anything, but packages are heavy and bulky so the practise of leaving them at the sorting office and taking we called but you were out cards is on the increase. How many times has it happened to you guys out of curiosity?

Never. The postal service around here is rather good. Although they can get to fuck with those stupid red rubber bands they leave lying in the street.

 

[Rubber Bullets]

We live out in the sticks so our postie gets a van and I think the van driving posties are happier than the walking and cycling posties.

My sisters van driving postie is the laziest person I have ever known. She lives in one half of an old farm house that has been split in two. Her front gate is about 15 feet from next doors, down a private drive. The postie drives down so that his van door is directly outside her neighbours gate, delivers his post, then gets back in the van and drives back to her gate before delivering hers! Literally 5 yards. I couldn't believe it when I saw it and thought it was a one off, but she says he always does it.

RB

 

[Ormorof]

My sisters van driving postie is the laziest person I have ever known. She lives in one half of an old farm house that has been split in two. Her front gate is about 15 feet from next doors, down a private drive. The postie drives down so that his van door is directly outside her neighbours gate, delivers his post, then gets back in the van and drives back to her gate before delivering hers! Literally 5 yards. I couldn't believe it when I saw it and thought it was a one off, but she says he always does it.

RB

theres probably rules about how far hes allowed to move from his van without locking it or reporting it (i imagine they would have this kind of practice in place for bikes in any case to stop postmen leaving bikes around to get stolen!) in this crazy day and age! or he could just be a lazy bastard

 

[rynnor]

Some people seem to be harking back to a golden age of posties - perhaps there are still places that get two posts a day (or even 1 everyday) - where they have a regular postie, where things dont get repeatedly stolen from their mail and nothing ever gets done about it etc. etc. but thats not my experience of royal mail.

As to the current strike - after the last strike they agreed to the changes and got a pay rise to compensate but now they want to add a load of extra conditions after the fact.

As to their pay I wouldnt take too much notice of the basic pay since they consider if they finish their round before mid-day that they want to be paid extra to work their contracted hours - show me any other job that allows that - in the private sector they would laugh at you

 

[00dave]

Actually Dave, I still want to pick you up on this:

If jealousy isn't the case, why do you take the stance you do with the posties?

Is it simply a case of "I was happy on 16 grand, therefore they should be"?

TBH I don't think money was a factor in my original post at all, although I may have to double check. My gripe is with the fact that they are yet again using the public as a bargaining tool to get what they want. And nobody else has that option at all so why should the posties be allowed to use it on a yearly basis whenever they fancy a few weeks off work before xmas.

But like I said 16 grand is actually very good for unskilled work in the current finacial climate.

 

[rynnor]

Wheres the 16K from anyway? Postman Average Salary

 

[Scouse]

TBH I don't think money was a factor in my original post at all, although I may have to double check. My gripe is with the fact that they are yet again using the public as a bargaining tool to get what they want. And nobody else has that option at all so why should the posties be allowed to use it on a yearly basis whenever they fancy a few weeks off work before xmas.

But like I said 16 grand is actually very good for unskilled work in the current finacial climate.

I'm with you when you say 16k is very good for unskilled work in the current financial climate.

I'm not with you when you say "nobody else has the option" of striking. Anyone who is a member of a union can as long as their union votes for it? Or am I talking shit (I've never even had sick-pay so I don't really know)?

I'm also not with you on one important point: 16k is shit pay - regardless of who you are and what job you do. I'd *much* rather the super-rich got the clobber world over and everyone else got a little bit extra.

The way I see it, a chief exec won't do his job if his bog is full of shit, but he won't do a cleaners job for a cleaners wage. Therefore the cleaner does an essential job and should get paid for this service.

How much would they have to pay you before you cleaned up someone else's shit?

 

[Ormorof]

I'm with you when you say 16k is very good for unskilled work in the current financial climate.

I'm not with you when you say "nobody else has the option" of striking. Anyone who is a member of a union can as long as their union votes for it? Or am I talking shit (I've never even had sick-pay so I don't really know)?

I'm also not with you on one important point: 16k is shit pay - regardless of who you are and what job you do. I'd *much* rather the super-rich got the clobber world over and everyone else got a little bit extra.

The way I see it, a chief exec won't do his job if his bog is full of shit, but he won't do a cleaners job for a cleaners wage. Therefore the cleaner does an essential job and should get paid for this service.

How much would they have to pay you before you cleaned up someone else's shit?

i think his point is that very few unions can effectively hold the country to ransom by witholding a service that so many people rely on, the only others who could do it nationally would be police or doctors and afaik its illegal for them to strike

 

[nath]

Fair enough. Point taken. I'll try to be less inflamatory in this post.

Ah dave. You shouldn't be such a pussy.

So close!

The way I see it, a chief exec won't do his job if his bog is full of shit, but he won't do a cleaners job for a cleaners wage. Therefore the cleaner does an essential job and should get paid for this service.

Ah, but the issue is there are plenty of people out there who are both capable and willing to clean toilets for low pay. If there were very few people willing to do it then their salaries would go up but unfortunately that's just not the case.

 

[tierk]

Worked at East Croydon main sorting Post Office for 18 months between 1997-1999. Sorry but anyone that wants to talk shit about posties and the job they do should go ahead and do this job for a couple of weeks and then come and talk about it.

A few things to be taken into consideration.

1. Starting time - 5am.

2. Work Saturdays.

3. Dealing with every kind of wanker, from "Oi were the fu*k is meee Giro" to some prick that thinks its funny to set his dog on you.

4. Delivery of letters to buildings with no elevators, council estates -if any of you familiar with council estates in Coulsdon for example - would take you freakin hours.

5. Total destruction of any sort of normal social life due to stupidly ridiculous start times on working hours.

6. Xmas time work load ten times higher than any other job i have ever experienced.

7. There are no days off for shitty weather, come rain or shine people expected to have mail delievered.

8. I didnt help that they would draft in a bunch of complete newbs that didnt have the first clue about sorting or basic geographical knowledge about the various walks they were being asked to cover. Hence late post, lost post or misdeleivered post.

9. Shit pay unless you did a lot of overtime.

I always noticed problems with mail occuring when they would bring cheap temps that had not been properly been trained on either throwing the walk off or not knowing the way to take on the walk itself and hence missing a lot of addresses. What usually happened then was that mail would get stuffed into red mail boxes again and be recycled through the system again or just binned.

The perks of the job.

1. There was always overtime to be done, either in the morning, or in the evenings at the main sorting office ( boring as fook work empty bags of post onto the conveyor belts for the sorting machines or carry the bags to the people opening the bags to be tipped onto the sorting machine conveyor belts - riveting stuff i tell you).

2. Your actual working day would be over at the latest 1pm, depending on how much overtime you would do - pior to the EU laws regarding this issue.

3. You got to meet some really nice people on your walk, cups of tea, sarnies etc.

4. Tips (cash, bottles of wine) from people for Xmas, though only on the better walks that seniors would have.

5. Great social life in the Postie Familly - Football and the piss up in the local pub on a Saturday mornings after the post was delievered were legendary, even if everyone was usually completely pissed up and ready to pass out by like 2pm!!

Overall it was great that while the over time was available but once the regulation came in things just turned to shit.

 

[Embattle]

There is in general less tolerance of strikes because quite frankly far too many happen and they are seen as little more than an attempt to grab money or bitch about changes that happen every day in the private sector.

Naturally in the current climate people have even less tolerance to strikes and it seems the public is about to be hit by quite a few which I get the feeling is going to result in some nasty action.

I must say that a lot of the negatives people seem to be using to justify what is happening in the post office isn't in any way exclusive to the postal service.

 

[00dave]

I'm not with you when you say "nobody else has the option" of striking. Anyone who is a member of a union can as long as their union votes for it? Or am I talking shit (I've never even had sick-pay so I don't really know)?

You very rarely hear of unions voting for strike action these days. Rocking the boat is often frowned upon and only the old school unions seem to do so.

I'm also not with you on one important point: 16k is shit pay - regardless of who you are and what job you do. I'd *much* rather the super-rich got the clobber world over and everyone else got a little bit extra.

The way I see it, a chief exec won't do his job if his bog is full of shit, but he won't do a cleaners job for a cleaners wage. Therefore the cleaner does an essential job and should get paid for this service.

How much would they have to pay you before you cleaned up someone else's shit?

You seem to be misunderstanding me. I'd love it if the super rich got clobbered too, in fact I don't think anybody in the world other than the super rich would mind if the super rich got clobbered and everyone else got a little more, but that nothing short of a dream.
And anyone can pick up a hoover and clean a floor, but it takes an educated man to think up a business strategy (supposedly). This is just the way the world works unfortunately, if we all got paid the same for the same work we'd all be communists, and that didn't work so well for Russia.

 

[00dave]

Worked at East Croydon main sorting Post Office for 18 months between 1997-1999. Sorry but anyone that wants to talk shit about posties and the job they do should go ahead and do this job for a couple of weeks and then come and talk about it.

A few things to be taken into consideration.

1. Starting time - 5am.

2. Work Saturdays.

3. Dealing with every kind of wanker, from "Oi were the fu*k is meee Giro" to some prick that thinks its funny to set his dog on you.

4. Delivery of letters to buildings with no elevators, council estates -if any of you familiar with council estates in Coulsdon for example - would take you freakin hours.

5. Total destruction of any sort of normal social life due to stupidly ridiculous start times on working hours.

6. Xmas time work load ten times higher than any other job i have ever experienced.

7. There are no days off for shitty weather, come rain or shine people expected to have mail delievered.

8. I didnt help that they would draft in a bunch of complete newbs that didnt have the first clue about sorting or basic geographical knowledge about the various walks they were being asked to cover. Hence late post, lost post or misdeleivered post.

9. Shit pay unless you did a lot of overtime.

I always noticed problems with mail occuring when they would bring cheap temps that had not been properly been trained on either throwing the walk off or not knowing the way to take on the walk itself and hence missing a lot of addresses. What usually happened then was that mail would get stuffed into red mail boxes again and be recycled through the system again or just binned.

The perks of the job.

1. There was always overtime to be done, either in the morning, or in the evenings at the main sorting office ( boring as fook work empty bags of post onto the conveyor belts for the sorting machines or carry the bags to the people opening the bags to be tipped onto the sorting machine conveyor belts - riveting stuff i tell you).

2. Your actual working day would be over at the latest 1pm, depending on how much overtime you would do - pior to the EU laws regarding this issue.

3. You got to meet some really nice people on your walk, cups of tea, sarnies etc.

4. Tips (cash, bottles of wine) from people for Xmas, though only on the better walks that seniors would have.

5. Great social life in the Postie Familly - Football and the piss up in the local pub on a Saturday mornings after the post was delievered were legendary, even if everyone was usually completely pissed up and ready to pass out by like 2pm!!

Overall it was great that while the over time was available but once the regulation came in things just turned to shit.

I could provide a pros and cons list about every job I've done so far that wouldn't be too disimilar to yours. But you missed off a few public sector related pros on that list I feel.

 

[Tom]

Sympethometer = zero.

Worked at East Croydon main sorting Post Office for 18 months between 1997-1999. Sorry but anyone that wants to talk shit about posties and the job they do should go ahead and do this job for a couple of weeks and then come and talk about it.

A few things to be taken into consideration.

1. Starting time - 5am.

I do that, and earlier.

2. Work Saturdays.

Yep, and Sundays, and Bank Holidays.

3. Dealing with every kind of wanker, from "Oi were the fu*k is meee Giro" to some prick that thinks its funny to set his dog on you.

Try working at a football match.

5. Total destruction of any sort of normal social life due to stupidly ridiculous start times on working hours.

Try doing an 18 hour day then, as I often do.

6. Xmas time work load ten times higher than any other job i have ever experienced.

I work Boxing Day, and often New Year's Day.

7. There are no days off for shitty weather, come rain or shine people expected to have mail delievered.

Aww, what a shame. Guess what, I have to put up with that too.

8. I didnt help that they would draft in a bunch of complete newbs that didnt have the first clue about sorting or basic geographical knowledge about the various walks they were being asked to cover. Hence late post, lost post or misdeleivered post.

No different to any other line of work.

9. Shit pay unless you did a lot of overtime.

So don't do the job.

I always noticed problems with mail occuring when they would bring cheap temps that had not been properly been trained on either throwing the walk off or not knowing the way to take on the walk itself and hence missing a lot of addresses. What usually happened then was that mail would get stuffed into red mail boxes again and be recycled through the system again or just binned.

Same as any other line of work.

 

[00dave]

I would like to mention that my copy of operation flashpoint 2 has arrived and therefore my postman is exempt from my complaints

 

[TdC]

unlike you lot I have no issues at all with my posties. on the other hand, I hate couriers with unsurpassed passion.

what is the point of having a package delivered specially when the person supposed to do it will only ring your doorbell within office hours, try this twice, and then force you to pick your package up yourself because you failed to be home? like duh motherfucker. next day delivery, my arse.

 

[Ormorof]

unlike you lot I have no issues at all with my posties. on the other hand, I hate couriers with unsurpassed passion.

what is the point of having a package delivered specially when the person supposed to do it will only ring your doorbell within office hours, try this twice, and then force you to pick your package up yourself because you failed to be home? like duh motherfucker. next day delivery, my arse.

the worst is that alot of the places you pick up your parcels from these companies are also only open during office hours so you have to take time off or leave work early/start late whatever to get the packages

luckily my work has a mail room where we can get our stuff delivered to so we just get an email when packages have arrived for us