RIP 3dfx

[old.Quorthon]

Sad to see them go. Even though they have seriously fucked up recently & I currently own a GeForce, my first 3d accelerator was a Voodoo2. I still remember my amazement the first time I fired up Q2 in OpenGl. It was like a whole new game. I think its also bad for consumers; remember how highly priced Intel chips were before AMD gave them a run for their money? Expect the NV20 to be further delayed. After all, why would Nvidia bring it out now?



Q

 

[Testin da Cable]

say what?

 

[Testin da Cable]

ah nm m8

 

[old.Quorthon]

er u managed to get 2 more posts out of that TDC ?

Ill never catch up on ya at this r8



Q

 

[Testin da Cable]

well actually it was that when I posted the first one I had no idea what you were on about cos I've practicly been in end-to-end meetings since monday

the second post was after I had looked at theregister.co.uk, realized I did know what you were on about and wanted to let you know not to bother explaining.

this post is to explain my seemingly wanton spamming.
you see, my dear friend, it's because of you


-td[SPAMMER]c

 

[old.Quorthon]

hehe,

you could have just edited your original post m8

soz if I am an inspiration to spam

Q

 

[Ono]

Back to the thread subject.............

Yep, I agree that the demise of 3Dfx is indeed sad. But you could see it coming really.

My first 3D card was a Voodoo1 then I got a Voodoo3 and now I have a GeForce2 GTS. 3Dfx really got left behind on their thinking and stubbornly stuck to providing the framerates at 16bit rather than framerates at 32bit like nVidia.

Even ATi have adapted well recently with their Radeons.

R.I.P:
S3
3Dfx

In the operating theatre:
Matrox

 

[old.Quorthon]

Not sure about ati.

From what I've read, despite all the publicity concerning the supposed lack of speed of the Voodoo's, apparently what really killed them was failure to secure a goood Oem contract. I read somewhere that the retail & hardcore gaming segments, which is what all the web hardware sites such as firing squad pander to, accounts for less than 10% of the market. Now Ati was always considered strongest with Oems, but with Nvidia cards now almost stardard in Dell machines, I wonder if an Nvidia/Ati takeover is far away.

bring on the glaze 3d.......

Q

 

[old.sjp]

first off, like ive said in another post, i liked 3dfx, i started with a voodoo1, then got a voodoo2(sli) and they both where gr8 cr=ards v fast and loked good.

secondly Ono ..... 3dfx arsed up with the Voodoo 5000, sticking to 16 bit did not hurt 3dfx there cards which could output useable (ie kicked everyone elses butt) framerates at 16 bit. 32bit colour was not practical until the Geforce2 ultra cam along (geforce2/ati rad could do it at a push at 800x).

the real problem was that the voodoo 5000 was SUPPOSED to be realeased at the same time as the Geforce1, if they had actually managed to do that, it all would have been alot different (a voodoo 5500 vs Geforce1 fps battle is alot closer and the extra image quality on the v5500 may just have swayed ppl).

unfortunately, 3dfx have ended up one product cycle out sync with niv, and have never looked like catching up.


so now we end with with niv and ati battleing it out (bit like amd vs intel) with all other the once gr8 card produces 6' under (abit like cyrus really ), weather or not its bad for the consumer is open to question ....

iam sure that niv will impliment some of the 3dfx tech and they have gained some gifted techys so ........ also its one less graphics card for developers to tweek there software for and finally glide is an Ex-Api

i guess it will depend on ati, if they can make faster cards with decent drivers (for a change) the future is looking good, if they fold and roll over then ................. but at least ati will take nintendo with them which is nice .

 

[old.Quorthon]

Sjp, I still think Nvidia will take over Ati at some stage. If you went back 2 or 3 years ago, most gateway or dell pc's had some form of ati rage/all in wonder type video card. Nvidia now occupy this space. With the move into integrated chipsets for mobos and laptops, I expect this dominance to continue further.

I think this process will be accentuated with this IP acquisition from 3dfx.


Q

 

[bodhi]

Firstly, I was greatly saddened to hear that 3dfx went under. I was hoping that they would "come back from the dead" and rip nVIDIA a new one. Never mind.....

Secondly, this talk of nVIDIA buying ATi. Fucking dream on. Not only are ATi a bigger company, they have a larger market share, and still wipe the floor on the OEM front with nVIDIA. What's the next idea? AMD to buy Intel? Gateway to buy Dell?

We should have a good fight in the upcoming months. NV20 due out April-ish, Radeon 2 coming along a couple of months after that. ATi have finally sorted their drivers out for stability (my rage fury is now solid as a rock) now they can start worrying about performance. If only we had Rampage in the fight too.....

 

[old.TUG]

I bet 200 notes that NV20 will wh00p ATI's next card

 

[old.Quorthon]

Secondly, this talk of nVIDIA buying ATi. Fucking dream on. Not only are ATi a bigger company, they have a larger market share, and still wipe the floor on the OEM front with nVIDIA. What's the next idea? AMD to buy Intel? Gateway to buy Dell?

Bodhi,

Why must you dive in aggressively like this?. I am not dreaming at all and the examples you have cited are clearly a completely different David/Goliath situation than Nvidia/Ati which are much closer in size.

Check out the following urls

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NVDA&d=t

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/a/aty.to.html

Here you will see that Nvidia has a market cap of $2.6bn while Ati has a mkt cap of Cad$2.4bn or Us$1.6bn at yesterdays closing rates. Mergers of similarly sized companies happen all the time, and while Ati are clearly in a completely different position than 3dfx, it is a possibility that doesnt deserve the ridicule you have attached above. Please justify your statements that Ati are a bigger company and that they have a larger share of the Oem market before putting me down. THis has been a theory that even market analysts have raised before; only a few months ago the possibility that Nvidia might buy 3dfx was dismissed by narrowminded people like yourself as ridiculous.


Q

 

[bodhi]

Can't remember where that market share was, was on either anandtech or tomshardware. ATi were sitting on 24% market share, nVIDIA were on about 19%. This took into account both retail (where nVIDIA are stronger thanks to the brainwashed masses) and OEM (where ATi are still king - remember, more machines are sold than desktops). With ATi about to embark into set-top boxes and other various markets, and with their continued progress in the performance markets, its not going to happen.

You cited Delll as an example of the OEM market, which is fair enough. I'm not going to insult your intelligence by pointing out that there are other PC manufacturers out there. Granted, more manufacturers are fitting nVIDIA chipsets in their machines than before, but these seem to be going into the high performance machines (anyone who fits a TNT2 M64 even due to cost constraints deserves to die slowly), but the lower end of the market is still dominated by ATi, and this is where most of the sales are made.

Basically, on likelihood of things happening, nVIDIA and ATi merging ranks pretty low on my list, right after free Guiness for a year, Duke Nukem Forever being released in time for Xmas (didnt say which year ) and Westlife not making christmas number 1.

Its not only on a financial basis either. Its very rare that two fierce competitors decide to merge (nVIDIA have seen ATi as their biggest threat since Radeon was anounced - and it seemed to work. If it wasnt for Radeon, the chances of GF2 Pro, Ultra coming out would have decreased muchly - as there would have been no point in releasing them). I also have a feeling America's monopolies and mergers commission might have a word or two to say about it.

However if they were to merge, just think of the cards we would get. An All-In-Wonder Radeon Ultra with detonator drivers....../me dribbles.


Bodhi

P.S The last reply was more out of incredulity than flaming. Sorry if it came across otherwise.

 

[old.Quorthon]

no probs m8,

and dont get me wrong - I dont want it to happen !!!

However, I think that NVidia are on a strong upwards trend. 4 years ago, they were an upstart with a shitty zx chipset, while Ati were the undoubted king of the OEM market. Now Nvidia have moved to having the fastest chipset on the market, and even 19% OEM market share (from nothing) is a massive chunk to take in such a short period of time. Given that they have the XBox contract which is sure to sell in the millions, and their product execution shows no sign of letting up, I think it is a possibility, maybe not next year, but if this trend continues, a distinct one in the future.

Oh and ps, I briefly had free guinness last weekend (at the chrimbo party )

Q

 

[Ono]

I think the future of Graphics cards will be Intel buying a leading card manufacturer and plonking the Gfx chip onboard their next mobo and saying 'Fuck you' to the gaming community.

All major manufacturers will buy this integrated solution (as they like to these days) and force the Gfx card companies down the drain.

Intel and Microsoft will then merge and build a new super computer called Skynet which will start a nuclear war and kill all humans.

They will then grow humans in these weird pod like things so that they can use our neural enrgy to power themselves.

We will all be living in a dreamstate until the person known only as 'The One'comes to our rescue in parts two and three of this amazing story.

 

[old.Quorthon]

Go and add these wonderful thoughts to TLSITWOTWBWS thread m8


Q

 

[Ono]

Originally posted by Ono
I think the future of Graphics cards will be Intel buying a leading card manufacturer and plonking the Gfx chip onboard their next mobo and saying 'Fuck you' to the gaming community.

All major manufacturers will buy this integrated solution (as they like to these days) and force the Gfx card companies down the drain.

This bit may come true though!

 

[old.Davehart]

With 3dfx now gone, the Geforece cards are the only real card to go for? Aside from the ATi ones but they dont get the coverage they deserve.

bye bye 3dfx, its sad to see you go

 

[old.Quorthon]

You're right about the Radeon, and funny thing is, the same went for 3dfx. Now I have a geforce cos I play a lot of Q3 ,but most people who play games seriously online profess to h8 Q3, most are playing C**t0rStrike :0 Despite this Q3 has somehow become the de facto benchmark standard, when more popular games which really benefit from the good FSAA on the Voodoo cards seem to be ignored. Fact is, unless u were an extreme quaker, the Voodoo 5500 was an excellent card, probably a better all rounder than the GTS.

Pity That


Q

 

[bodhi]

Ono, this is coser to happening than you realise. ATi already has an integrated solution in development with onboard T&L. If they can marry it to a decent chipset, it should clear up in the OEM sector. And if this starts to happen, expect nVIDIA to develop one of their own.

However I doubt this will kill the retail graphics board industry, as with all onboard solutions, corners have to be cut to keep the price down. This will ineveitably lead to a drop in performance, hence the 43895804385094385034fps brigade will be forced to go out an get their GeRadeon 75 Ultra Pro MAXX.

tbh I think the death of 3dfx will have less of an effect on the graphics market than you would think. As much as it sucks, they were a spent force tbh. Voodoo 5 would probably have been their last moderatley competitive card, as with the advances being promised by NV20/ Radeon 2, I doubt Rampage will have been able to compete. I wanted it to be able to, but unfortunately reality has to kick in at some point.

 

[old.Quorthon]

Originally posted by Bodhi
However I doubt this will kill the retail graphics board industry, as with all onboard solutions, corners have to be cut to keep the price down. This will ineveitably lead to a drop in performance, hence the 43895804385094385034fps brigade will be forced to go out an get their GeRadeon 75 Ultra Pro MAXX.

Bodhi,


Are you insane ???? Everybody knows that the human eye cannot discern any difference once you go beyond 43000000000000000000fps. The extra 895804385094385034fps would effectively be wasted


Q

 

[bodhi]

You have far too much time on your hands......

 

[old.Quorthon]

hehe rotfl

Its Xmas & things are winding down - what do you expect??




Q

 

[old.Quorthon]

heh not to flog a dead horse or anything Bodhi (hehe I wouldnt honest ) but I see Nvidia have claimed another scalp from Ati, Hewlett Packard have announced that Nvidia cards will be the default in all their machines from now on. If they get Compaq, I tell ya Bodhi, sooner or later my prediction will happen !!!


Q

 

[bodhi]

Yer but m8, if you buy a Hewlett Packard PC you deserve to die anyway . I agree that nVIDIA are definitely causing some headaches in the OEM market for ATi, but ATi are too big a company and have been around too long to simply curl up and die. Remember ATi didnt rape the OEM market by having good chipsets (Rage Pro and some of the crippled Rage 128's are a joke - me dad's P3 700 gets 22fps in q3, all down to the Rage 128 they gave him. My P3 500 with full blown Rage 128 gets 53fps...), they did it through having a good relationship with the companies making the computers. ATi have always struck me as being "the nice guys" of the graphics industry, and I pray for once the phrase "Nice Guys finish Last" doesnt hold out.....

What I have always seen ATi's problem to be, is they have some of the best ideas out there, unfortunately there seems to me to be a lack of communication down the line, which results in delays/icky drivers. The Rage 128 was far ahead of its time, unfortunately due to delays it became decidedly more ho-hum. Aurora (MAXX) was also a very nice solution, but again drivers held it back. Hopefully Radeon is the start of the worm turning and ATi about to show nVIDIA how its done. The Radeon is easily the most advanced chipset on the planet, it came out early (I was shocked about this aswell), and the drivers seem spot on this time.

The future's bright imo.

 

[old.Quorthon]

Yeah , they need to follow it up though Bodhi, when is the next iteration of the Radeon line due? If they can make it out before/close to the NV20's launch it could be a good year for us. Otherwise, expect Nvidias next to retail at £400+ from the start.


Q

 

[bodhi]

Christ m8 do you live in here or summat?

R200 (Radeon 2) is due to start being shipped in June 2001. A couple of months after NV20 but being first to ship a new generation of product in this industry never did anyone any good (G200, Rage 128 are good examples). The first sample boards are said to be ready for February. But what interests me more than Radeon 2, is the chip after Radeon 2. Onlly known as R300 atm, it is said to be three times as fast as Radeon 2, and with Radeon 2 running at 300Mhz, I am dribbling already. It all comes down to whether ATi can stick to their release schedule or not.

I think we can take it as red that the Nv20 will cost an arm and a leg when it comes out. I have already seen the price $800 (!) thrown about by the rumour mill, which to me is a piss take asking anyone to pay that sort of money for a graphics card.

I can also see NV20 not living up to expectations, simply because the expectations of it are that high it's almost doomed to dissapoint.

 

[old.Quorthon]

Originally posted by Bodhi
Christ m8 do you live in here or summat?

R200 (Radeon 2) is due to start being shipped in June 2001. A couple of months after NV20 but being first to ship a new generation of product in this industry never did anyone any good (G200, Rage 128 are good examples). The first sample boards are said to be ready for February. But what interests me more than Radeon 2, is the chip after Radeon 2. Onlly known as R300 atm, it is said to be three times as fast as Radeon 2, and with Radeon 2 running at 300Mhz, I am dribbling already. It all comes down to whether ATi can stick to their release schedule or not.

I think we can take it as red that the Nv20 will cost an arm and a leg when it comes out. I have already seen the price $800 (!) thrown about by the rumour mill, which to me is a piss take asking anyone to pay that sort of money for a graphics card.

I can also see NV20 not living up to expectations, simply because the expectations of it are that high it's almost doomed to dissapoint.

hehe not yet m8, although in or around lunchtime is always a good time to get me right back at ya!!!!! Especially first day back at work - sereious motivation issues getting settled in - Im sure Im not the only one

Re the NV20 I agree, this "7x GF Ultra" that is being bandied about is sure to be raised when it comes out, peeps will complain that it doesnt do 7 x 130 = 910 fps in Q3 at 1024x768 with everything maxed I expect it will be a bit like the P4 is atm, no great increases in performance for current games, (other than those caused by clock/mem speed increases, although the HSR thing will be interesting if true), but once things come out with massive amounts of textures etc, then it might pull away from the competition. Doom 3 anyone?

Q

 

[old.Quorthon]

http://yahoo.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-4436145.html?pt.yfin.cat_fin.txt.ne

Bodhi, more Nvidia inroads into former exclusively Ati territory, as nvidia cards now to be used in Macs. Unless Ati can really improve their execution, Im afraid my prediction will come true eventually.


Q