Respect the Listkeeper

[butcha]

Before today, I had only been listkeeper once at H. It was not much of a deal I figured, all one has to do is to write down some names on a list and call them when needed.

Today I tried listkeeping for Lair during rushhour. It was the most terrible experience of my life. I had somewhat 1 pm / 5 secs. People wanting to get on list, people wanting to know what number they were, people who wanted to play an alt meanwhile etc...

Ye realize I had no time to answer all these messages, and so people got mad and started sending me even more messages, causing every reply to go to the wrong person since the flooding made it impossible to use the replybutton. After a while some people got really hostile and started a debate with me... they felt they were being left out since they had waited for so many hours etc. These debates caused me to lag behind even more in my other replies and so even more people got mad... and I was in a vicious circle.

Finally I gave up and gave the list away.

So what I really wanted to say with this thread is: Respect the listkeeper. It is the roughest job one can have. If ye don't believe me, try it out some day when there is only one group at lair and ye get somewhat 50 people messing you constantly.

Praise the listkeepers of Midgard!

I will never do it again. I do not have what it takes.

 

[amphetamine]

yeah its a horrible job, people dont realize how many pm's you get, its even worse if the person before you didnt pass the list over and you have to start again getting all the people that was #1 and #2 now #16, its really frustrating for both parties, some people thankfully understand its not your fault

 

[Jimli]

I've been unable to use the reply button most of the time since i dinged 50. Welcome to DaoC as i play it with Jimli.


Hmm, must start to cut down on whining here. Becoming a BW resident too much.

 

[old.Attle]

Ahh...listkeeper, the most noble of all professions. I wish GOA could change all ex-listkeepers title to listkeeper. Thats a title to be proud of.

 

[old.Molotok]

It's said that pplz are listkeepers only once

 

[old.Stang]

50 ppl sending u messages to get on the list?, i really dont understand this, why not make more groups so everyone gets his experience and fun?

 

[amphetamine]

Originally posted by old.Stang
50 ppl sending u messages to get on the list?, i really dont understand this, why not make more groups so everyone gets his experience and fun?

some listkeepers refuse to give names on their lists to "newly" forming groups basically denying some poor soul waiting for a spot the chance to xp.

 

[gnafasteshot]

Never be the Lk

 

[butcha]

Originally posted by old.Stang
50 ppl sending u messages to get on the list?, i really dont understand this, why not make more groups so everyone gets his experience and fun?

We gave the list away, however on the list there were 31 tanks, 7 lowlevel healers, 3 lowlevel runies, 0 highlevel runies and 1 highlevel healer... Its hard to make teams out of that, but someone finally managed to do it, dont remember who though.

Heard complaints from members of that group, but indeed as the famous saying around lair is... some xp is better than none at all.

Good work to the one who pulled it together.

 

[Xandax]

I hate the list and will avoid being listkeeper fiercly.
Not because I get flamed or pm'ed all the time, I can usually keep up with them and reply rather fast to all of the people.
But I do hate it cause it keeps me from doing what I am there to do- kill stuff

I don't dislike exp.ing at the Lair - infact I rather like it (yeah - wierd I know) becuase of the fast pace (if the puller is good) and the loads of action.
If you are listkeeper you are all but excluded from this action and thus the point (imo) of being in lair.

Also - why people don't just make new groups when they are told #X on the list.
It is my experience that many people would much rather join a group that is running then handle the hassle of making a new group. I've seen this loads at Malmohus (lair and H).

 

[wolvon fury]

Why don't you just try Malmo US style,
I found it effective,

6-8 enemys comeing kill them, get more, keep doing it,

Some times you get the super huge pulls, were about 15 mobs come,
So there can some times some down time from them,

But, you sometimes do getn the leachers,
Like when i was leveling Wolvon Fury(US) I seen level 20 there

It can be good doing the big leech, as the mobs keep on comeing,

a friend of mine got a level a day there from 40-50,
But it cna go over the top, and you end up with 40 people in a leeching group hehe.

 

[Sortbane]

I have no idea why we dont do it US style.. each time I or someone else has suggested US style in lair someone says it sucks, way to little XP per mob etc.etc. and people are refusing to see the single fact Less XP per mob 2-3 times bigger pulls and faster kills.. (hate the idea of only good XP is twice your XPcap way of thinking)

And the other thing, holding lists are not that bad when you get used to it, I had some rough times to start with, but managed fine after a little while.. Think it was once or twice I actually had to argue with Oddmund on who of us was to be the LK

Anyways, I thank some higher deity that I'm finished with lair, but shivers on the thougth that I have a 39 healer waiting for that time...


- Sortbanes babbeling of the morning finished

 

[butcha]

Hehe, I have only done US pulls once in my life... we got an extreme lag during one pull, everyone was killed and LD and had to run all the way from Hugin.

Nopesy, no more US pulls for me.

 

[cougar-]

lists truely destroy the game, by just being online alot u can get l50 and still be a real newbie, go and make your own groups like i had to do back in the old days.

 

[illu]

Lists - hmmm.

Unfortunately the lists at the lair seem like the only way to go to get organised XPing. Whenever I have been the list keeper (and somehow had to fit healing in - and I had cg invite too(!)) - it generally went pretty smooth, and after doing it a few times, I printed out an Excel spreadsheet

The columns were NAME LVL CLASS ALT-NAME and basically I ALWAYS stuck to the order - no matter what, except for if a healer left. I had a few whingers occasionally to which my standard reply is "IF you don't like the XP - I have a list here of ppl who do", and "Any XP is good XP".

I actually enjoy being the list keeper. Maybe I'm a bit strange - but I like to see / organise things, and if there ever are too many names on the list, I have suggested to people to make another group, especially if you see the makings of another group there, say 1 high healer, a high runey / shaman.

Anyway - I know it's a hassle to get from lvl 42-50, but don't panic ppl as you will get there one day. And for the people that wait 11 hours+, make an alt and level them up. Don't waste your time waiting on the hill.

You just have to make sure the list keeper is fair and honest.

Oli - ILLU

 

[old.Attle]

And to all wannabe listkeepers, they key phrase is: "don't pm us, we pm you". If they are on the list, the only thing they need to do is to stay online and wait for the call from the listkeeper.

 

[helis]

Being a LK is truly a profession i'd like to avoid. One thing i've noticed from many LK's is that when you politely ask for a spot on list (whick all peeps should do, ask politely) you get a "k." or "you're on it" kind of reply. I know it's stressful but you most certainly avoid that extra message if you say in your first reply something like this, "yes, you've got #XX spot on list".

There's a big difference from being #1 and #16. But i usually flash my LairHealerGoldmembershipcard for my 48 healer, usually works, hehe...

Also, if you're on list1 and get into a group at list2, please inform LK at list1 that you no longer need that spot. It's a polite thing to do.

 

[xajorkith]

I've almost quit the game due to the hassle I get when I'm LK!

One time I was busy fighting (I was the main tank) and I didn't respond fast enough to a request (I'm talking seconds here), so I got a load of abuse, and then to top it off her guild master then started to hassle me too, all while I was trying to keep the healer alive! When I explained that perhaps a little patience would be of use here, she went off on one, and started slagging me off to the rest of the group. So I quit the H and the LK.

The point of the H/Lair is to keep the flow of mobs coming to gain max exp, so an instant reply isn't always possible.

It would also help if the person wanting to be added to the list provided some proper info:

Wrong: Add me to list.

Correct: Please add me to your list; I'm a Skald Level 43. Contact Bob, and I’ll log off at 10pm CET.

Reply: Thanks, your no 9.

Another problem is what happens when someone you have in your /ignore list wants a place? Should all LK's remove all their /ignores????

I’ll never be LK again.

 

[stabba3]

I enjoy it, when its slow you always have someone to chat with . And when its fast its nice and hectic, witch i also like .
Only bad thing with it is that you get to see some of the most frustrating moments of daoc . Thats the way i feel about it atleast. Also make sure you have a chan for pm's only .

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Sortbane
I have no idea why we dont do it US style.. each time I or someone else has suggested US style in lair someone says it sucks, way to little XP per mob etc.etc. and people are refusing to see the single fact Less XP per mob 2-3 times bigger pulls and faster kills.. (hate the idea of only good XP is twice your XPcap way of thinking)
<snip>

You are right - many people dosen't seem to grasp the concept of exp. over time with faster pulling with less exp contra slow pulling with larger exp.

Many look at the exp they gain per mob. instead of the exp. they would gain over, say, one hour.

 

[illu]

I think the whole US Style of pulling is just a bit too chaotic tbh. Everytime someone has suggested it - I have given it a go, only to end up dead within 30 mins.

What tends to happen is random people start pulling, people aren't sure who is healing who, where the mobs are coming from next - the healers don't have time to rest to get mana back etc, basically US Style = unorganised CHAOS, and I'm sure the group that were xping there before get the same XP or less, as the XP is faster - but it is shared over the harder hitters, and more people, so it's not "as fair" for the weaker classes too.....

Basically as a healer, I like less chaos and more control. I know that if I mezz something and it resists, I know people will be looking out for me - instead of trying to attack every single mob as they want their XP XP XPX PXPXPXPXPPXP

So, anyway, I'll be having to visit the lair soon as I need some pocket money to spend in Jimli's sweetshop, so even though it is totally mind numbing for however long you are there, it's nice to keep deaths to a minimum - using the usual way of 2fg's in up to 3 spots.

For those of you who want things to go quicker - the main delay is because of a lack of healers / shamans. While you are waiting, make an alt healer / shaman - because then you can see the fun healers have to go through to keep people alive, and maybe you'll understand who has the hardest job in the lair

Oli - ILLU

 

[Sortbane]

TBH I think that most of the US styles sofar have been badly organized, set up the groups for the pulling, apoint the main puller and everyone is to know that he's the only one to pull ( maybe put up a reserve puller in case the first one is oop/dead/afk ).. Also the yelling of READY in /ch should be something like GROUP 1 READY - GROUP 2 READY or something like that ( make ready yeller make some macros for this and almost as important, a "we're NOT ready" macro )

Lines are also out of importance when doing US style, but this tends to be a little disorganised after a few pulls, make a little stop, reorganise and then continue..

Basicly what I'm saying is, put order into chaos and you will succeed.. it migth take 10-15 minutes longer to get going, but will ensure the longevity of the groups

Another Idea migth be to set specific days for lairpulling, but this again needs to be organised and agreed upon with the other folks..

- Sortbane

 

[Graenit]

Have been listkeeper several times at lair, even as groupleader and cg-leader at the same time. The last thing is not to recommend though. It can be a really hard work, but most ppl are understanding and ask politely.
I have to advice that you split the listkeeping for the 2 groups(43-46, 47-50 in general), letting someone else be lk for the other group, makes it easier to handle.

As mentioned before in this thread, you sometimes get flooded with msg as lk. So please just resend your msg if you don't get an answer in 5 min or so.

A thought about long lists. Why even take in more ppl than say 15 on the list? Better to encurage the rest to start new groups. To avoid getting an enormous list, try reply something like: "List is huge!", or as i got one day when asking: "List is longer than my beard"(and it was a hairy doorf speaking).
I myself would never jump on a list with more than 15 ppl, it's no point.

/Graenit 47 warrior
Zirkonite 30 shaman
Gneijs 24 critblade

 

[cadiva]

Quick question

Sorry for being a bit thick. I'm only level 33 so I haven't got this far yet but what is the H when you refer to Malmous?

Obviously the Lair speaks for itself but I have never yet come across anything which says what the H is.

Hope someone can clear this up for me. Oh, me only other query would be why does hardly anyone bash in Vanern Swamp or Raumarik?

 

[Haldar]

i was LK almost all times when i exped @ lair, and i carried this job good.

listkeeping helped me to fight a huge boredom of mindless drakulv slaughter

still, being a SB helped me in it - not much responsibility (sp?) for the grp except ocassional healer/rm guarding......

H spot is another place in malmo where drakulvs spawn as fast as in lair, but they are lesser lvl, thus this is an exp spot for 39-43 ppl

no one exps in raum-vanern bcoz ratio exp/time is highest @ lair.

 

[cadiva]

Originally posted by Hroft[BC]
H spot is another place in malmo where drakulvs spawn as fast as in lair, but they are lesser lvl, thus this is an exp spot for 39-43 ppl
no one exps in raum-vanern bcoz ratio exp/time is highest @ lair.

Ahha, thanks so the H doesn't actually stand for anything like Hole or Hut or Hide Here from the nasty mobs?

Thanks also for answering my question about why no-one goes to Vanern or Raumarik. I think I'll be doing my xp there as there should be stupidly large numbers of mobs that probably haven't been killed for about three months and the camp bonus will be massive

 

[illu]

H is the name because the rocks there are in an "H" formation (bottom SE corner of malmohus).

It actually looks more like an "N" to me, but hey

Oli - ILLU

 

[Jarrax]

Tonight was interesting twist on malmo, finally dinged 42. thought I'd pop along to malmo to log. Got there, decided to have a look at the peeps xp'ing, seeing who's who so to speak. I approached 1 group when "/send No" appeared in my screen from the LK, seems sb's weren't wanted. No other reason offered (full group, long list etc etc) just sb class.

Thought for a chuckle I'd ask other group there, G1 were only allowing 43+ in G2 (truly bizarre, higher g2 average=less g1 xp), funny, it was 42 when i did the lair first time round.
Nevermind, knowing what the lair can be like from experience prepares you

 

[old.Vandgard]

A minimum of 43+ for G2 is fairly standard as far as lair etiquette goes, although it obviously depends on who's LK.

 

[old.Stang]

Signed in for H at the LK at 5 pm, round midnight still no free spot so i logged and why SB's always in G2?, really bad exp and no loot, guessing lots of ppl hate SB's...