Reavers

[Poseidon]

I have a little though how come albs dont want reavers in grp, dont they know they are really good???

i mean ofc we lack DET but we got purge, and reavers > Pbaoe and we hit for loads with levi... just a little question.

 

[Khalen]

Albs = Stupid
Albs !invite Reavers
Albs := Dead

 

[loxleyhood]

Problem is with current groups is that the set up is determination offencive tanks. Reavers don't fit either of these roles, of course, Levi does hit for a brick load, but is somewhat hard to pull off in certain situations, whereas a Merc or Arms can just go in there and do his thang. The 42 shield spec isn't pleasant either. We already have a Paladin!

They're not gimped, of course, but everyone wants perfection. And Albion groups kind of need it.

 

[AzuratMinimus]

Reavers is nice to have in group if they know how to play. Pbaoe af debuff chant is nice for interupting and some extra damage. Levi does huge damage and extra shield is never wrong. Not to mention all the free stealther rps you get from pbaoe chants.

Only problem is no det but in my opinion that´s no problem. Reavers are prolly the most underestimated class in albion.

 

[parlain]

for my next experiment I'm trying a reaver and making the tanks drink end pots >.<

 

[bracken_woodman]

Its mainly the determination thing thats the problem

 

[Asha]

only been at it 2 or 3 days but vs hibs it is great and really really fun. Det isnt a problem if you can make it to the cage - which you should be able to do. Vs. mids, the det issue hurts

 

[K0nah]

yeah reavers rock vs hib grps but are a slight handicap vs mids.

which is a damn shame cos its a kickass class.

 

[Poseidon]

i totally agree with ppl above, since i stoped playing me Pally only play this one, and its really really good, as mentioned above its uber against hibs and oki against mids. But imo Albgrp should have room for a reaver who knows how to play, its worth it And an extra shield can never be wrong whoever said its enough with one paladin. I also think Reavers are way to undersetimated by ppl who only think Det is the key to succes, Det isnt the key, utility is imo. Though Det are damn good to have

 

[gunner440]

Originally posted by Khalen
Albs = Stupid
Albs !invite Reavers
Albs := Dead

ya nice generalisation there...

and you've been made 'above' alb or something the way you refer to 'albs' as a separate group?

as for the original post as konah said theyre not so effective vs mids and a group which can take on all > a group specialised for one particular setup

 

[Moody]

The extra shield is very handy, 2 guarders/slammers, and you don't lose anything damagewise because Reavers hit just as hard with their one hander as a poler does. If Reavers had access to Determination, they would be brutally overpowered.

Groups would consist of sorc-mincer-cleric-cleric-pala-reaver-reaver-reaver and nothing else.

 

[Asha]

don't think anyone is suggesting reavers get det
just saying the lack of it really makes you have a hard time vs mids.

 

[Poseidon]

We arent bad against midgrps though, we just have abit harder, can still use purge etc in lack of Det, well atleast every 30 min, after that we need to rely on the Unmezz dude

I thikn the fact that alb/exc dont have many active reaver is what makes ppl dont wanna try us out. They dont know what we have, all they know is no Det and we can do a LEvi style

 

[K0nah]

well i can say this: if emain is zerged with hibs, ppl at apk should be biting ur fucking arm off at the shoulder when u scream lfg

give reavers a break! free the reavurz! etc

damn fine class, especially vs pbaoe cells...

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by loxleyhood
Problem is with current groups is that the set up is determination offencive tanks. Reavers don't fit either of these roles, of course, Levi does hit for a brick load, but is somewhat hard to pull off in certain situations, whereas a Merc or Arms can just go in there and do his thang.

My Levi hits for 500-700.
My side-positional hits for ~250 (+150 lifetap), with ~350 follow-up (with snare).
My block (guard) reactionary chain will do 1200+ damage, with a 350 lifetap and stun on opener.
(My parry chain will do 1k+ with 9s stun) - not used much cos it's parry-reactionary.
My anytime hits for ~350.
My extended-range style hits for 350 (hits from 350-range).

At 1.9s swing (without haste).



Of course, Levi does hit for a brick load, but is a piece of piss to get behind your target and land it with 80% of your swings. The times you cannot do so, just hit the guy for 350 instead.

Originally posted by loxleyhood
The 42 shield spec isn't pleasant either. We already have a Paladin!

Okay. Stupid comment of the week?

Originally posted by loxleyhood
They're not gimped, of course, but everyone wants perfection. And Albion groups kind of need it.

TBH, the perfect Alb group would have a Reaver in it. The problem is he can't be played by someone who wants to just /assist, /stick, spam-style.


As mentioned above, Reaver > pbae box. But a Reaver also has 2 ranged interrupts which makes it VERY difficult for any enemy group to win the initial CC war.

insta-dot on bard/pac from 1500 range, sprint, pbae debuff when close and slam. If he instas you, your sorc is happily free and mezzing his group.


Lacking Det is rarely an issue - just prevent yourself getting CC'd in the first place.


make alb groups of cleric, cleric, minstrel, paladin, merc, arms, reaver, minstrel/sorc/theurg - you'll have better, more reliable CC, and higher, faster damage than with 3 det tanks.

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by Pin
Lacking Det is rarely an issue - just prevent yourself getting CC'd in the first place.

yeah, the probems start when u fail to avoid it

pretty easy to fail vs mids too, what with: 4 rooters, 1 aoe rooter, 4mezzers, 1-2 aoe mezzers, 3-4 stunners and 1-2 aoe stunners in a typical grp...

not to mention: insta stun, insta aoe stun, insta mezz, insta aoe mezz, insta pb-disease, insta snare and insta aoe root (ichor)

being able to wade thru most of that cc and keep spamming /assist /stick and your anytime style of choice (cos only reavers have the skill to use positionals) is rather nice tbh

 

[rg-zorena]

reavers what spot would they take paladin i see but then again everyone in grp would lack end regen i think thats a bad idea bth but then again i was a silly mid and know nothing

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by K0nah
pretty easy to fail vs mids too, what with: 4 rooters, 1 aoe rooter, 4mezzers, 1-2 aoe mezzers, 3-4 stunners and 1-2 aoe stunners in a typical grp...

And if those 17 people are left alone by the rest of your group, of course you are in trouble.

Originally posted by K0nah
not to mention: insta stun, insta aoe stun, insta mezz, insta aoe mezz, insta pb-disease, insta snare and insta aoe root (ichor)

Not to mention that you can halve the number due to non-stacking, then take another 2 off your argument due to Det not affecting them, then remember that with 50%+ resists instas don't mean much and if they're on you they're not on your support...

Originally posted by K0nah
being able to wade thru most of that cc and keep spamming /assist /stick and your anytime style of choice (cos only reavers have the skill to use positionals) is rather nice tbh

There are some people that can land positionals reliably, and some that cannot. I never made a comment to say that this ability was restricted to Reavers, but apparently you seemed threatened by the suggestion that certain people can't manage more than 3 buttons.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by rg-zorena
reavers what spot would they take paladin i see but then again everyone in grp would lack end regen i think thats a bad idea bth but then again i was a silly mid and know nothing

No, the Reaver would fill the role one of the 3 damage-dealing tanks.

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by Pin
And if those 17 people are left alone by the rest of your group, of course you are in trouble.

not 17ppl, 3 healers, 1 shammy and a skald, all with vast and varied cc options, both castable (interuptable) and insta.

Originally posted by Pin
Not to mention that you can halve the number due to non-stacking, then take another 2 off your argument due to Det not affecting them, then remember that with 50%+ resists instas don't mean much and if they're on you they're not on your support...

i did say 'most' of that cc... insta's dont last long no, but they last 60%-75% longer on u than they do on a det4/5 tank. shammy root is matter based and 83sec duration, u run with 24% friar resists often? if not you'll be stood there for ~1minute. granted not entirely usless, as u can spam dot and lifetap instas, at least til they remezz u and the cycle starts again... or they just kill u ofc.

Originally posted by Pin
There are some people that can land positionals reliably, and some that cannot. I never made a comment to say that this ability was restricted to Reavers, but apparently you seemed threatened by the suggestion that certain people can't manage more than 3 buttons.

your comment, this comment in fact...

Originally posted by Pin
TBH, the perfect Alb group would have a Reaver in it. The problem is he can't be played by someone who wants to just /assist, /stick, spam-style.

...implied playing a reaver requires more skill than other 'non-reaver' or det tanks in general when in fact, at least when it comes to "spamming /assist /stick and styles" there is zero difference. you spam levi with side posn backup, a merc spams backslash with flank backup or pierce with flank backup, etc etc...

the perfect alb grp vs hibs could easily contain a reaver, vs a typical mid fotm setup they are a handicap, fullstop. a rooted reaver adds very little dmg to the grp, some interrupts yes, not much dmg. a mezzed or stunned reaver adds nothing at all.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by K0nah
your comment, this comment in fact...

...implied playing a reaver requires more skill than other 'non-reaver' or det tanks in general when in fact, at least when it comes to "spamming /assist /stick and styles" there is zero difference. you spam levi with side posn backup, a merc spams backslash with flank backup or pierce with flank backup, etc etc...

I know what it referred to. And it's not hard to see that a reaver has more buttons to press than, e.g. a Merc, with 4 spells to be using on top of the combat styles, 2 of them which should be fired at range to interrupt (requiring him to pick a different target to the one he is smacking) - this takes more than just assisting, sticking and killing a target.

I was not saying a word about how amazing he must be to merely land positional styles.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by K0nah
not 17ppl, 3 healers, 1 shammy and a skald, all with vast and varied cc options, both castable (interuptable) and insta.

And you know as well as I do that there is no way that there will be 5 members of the mid group free to CC during the fight. If they are, then you have deeper problems than the 3rd tank not having Det.

You have a Minstrel able to interrupt 2/3, the assist train on another, and a sorc pet running around aswell, etc, etc.

What the Reaver gives is a 1500 range insta interrupt (longer than any other alb class), then a 700, then 350-radius pbae. If you win the first CC battle, you get on top. You then have far less enemy CC options to worry about and things are all fine and happy.


But keep your blinkers on... Det4tehwinzz!

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by Pin
it's not hard to see that a reaver has more buttons to press than, e.g. a Merc

charge, flurry, dirt? ok so its not 4...

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by Pin
And you know as well as I do that there is no way that there will be 5 members of the mid group free to CC during the fight.

with 3 seperate forms of aoe insta CC available they dont have to be 'free'.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by K0nah
charge, flurry, dirt? ok so its not 4...

charge? at your target
flurry? okay, you could throw it on another target who's in punching distance aswell.
dirt? on all your targets...

I fail to see how that's similar.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by K0nah
with 3 seperate forms of aoe insta CC available they dont have to be 'free'.

2.

and one PBAE which isn't affected by det anyway and can be chain-cast on you so is kinda silly to be mentioning it.

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by Pin
2.

and one PBAE which isn't affected by det anyway and can be chain-cast on you so is kinda silly to be mentioning it.

3.

aoe stun, aoe mezz and aoe root (ichor)

yes it would be silly mentioning it, thats why i didn't.

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by Pin
I fail to see how that's similar.

Originally posted by Pin
more buttons to press

 

[Pin]

Heh. Ichor doesn't actually root anything. It's not your Det that cuts it to a few seconds, it's like that on all.

Originally posted by Pin
But keep your blinkers on

EOI

 

[ilienwyn]

love is in the air