Rational, Civilized People 1 : 0 Inbred, Bloodthirsty Toffs

[Gamah]

Random Stuff

Do you actully know what they do on fox hunts, or are you just convinced that your view is right and everyone else should go to hell.

If they dogs are catching the fox, they pull them back untill the fox is so tired it can't run any more at which point they let the dogs rip it apart.

So lets replace Fox A with Lox A. We chase him though the forest but every time we nearly catch him with pull the dogs back to so can run some more and lengethen his trauma. But i'm sure its ok because your a pest right? Or is it not ok because your a human? I would have much less trouble shooting some cunting human trash than a defenceless animal.

And regarding the puppy, If I saw some kid kicking a dog about I would fucking kick 7 bells of shit out the little ****, no questons asked.

I detest people that are cruel to animals, such a rage inside of me when I see it.

As for you lox acting like humans are the only important thing, and foxes are a pest, need I remind you that it's us on thier territory not the other way around. But of course because we can speak and use our hands to build things and that gives us a god given right to kill animals for fun.

What I wouldn't give to send a pack of dogs after those rich tonkys and see how they like it. Oh and before you say I am swayed by propaganda I am doing a politics degree, so i well well versed in taking an objective view in all situations and forming my own opinion.

 

[Cigies]

Not many people here will know, I suspect, that the Mallard (that most ubiquitous of british wildfowl) was nearing the endangered species lists in the 1960s due to.....

.... Country people with guns shooting them ?

Anyone who has spent any time with a trained hunting dog or gun dog (that is a dog used in wildfowling hunting with guns, not a dog trained in the use of guns)

Ahaha .... you admit it !!!

As for the Fox hunting crowd crying about thier jobs, get another job you nobbers, maybe one that isn't based on babarism would be a start.

 

[Marczje]

Heh, ofcourse it's fckin propaganda. Those who fail to see that are just blind. But they want their voters to seem them as a 'caring' government.

(Not like it's in line, but stalin and hitler have had hundreds of paintings made with them holding a little child. If the voters see you as someone who cares, you get the votes.)

 

[Sissyfoo]

I like Gamah!

 

[Gamah]

Heh, ofcourse it's fckin propaganda. Those who fail to see that are just blind. But they want their voters to seem them as a 'caring' government.

Yes of course, fox hunting is something large groups (Presure Groups) have people have been protesting to be banned for a long time, soooo maybe its the government listening to the people?

But of course, why would the government listen to the electorate, that would make us a democratic society. As for proaganda, it says on a fox hunting support website that it is not cruel on the foxes, ahh silly having my neck ripped out by a pack of dogs is clearly not painfull..Some of this anti fox hunting stuff is propaganda but some is fact, determinaning the difference between the two is the mark of an intelligent human being.

Also you people shouting propagana (which seems to be a bandwagon word here) don't relealise how you are affected by the media, it is all around us. The key is getting the facts out of the events and making up your own mind based on your beliefs and opinions.

 

[Gamah]

Also another point on your post...

The Government are the ones who draw up the bill, however it is Parliament that has to pass it though.

So its all the parties that have a seat in Parliament that have to vote, not just the Government. Then the bill is passed to the House of Lords who can reject the bill and send it back to Parliament. They can only reject a bill 3 times (if I remember correctly) then it is forced though if they want it or not, but it can delay the law being acted on for over a year.

So its not Tony's croanies trying to win votes it was a clear majority of PARLIAMENT, all parties that sit in the HoC.

 

[harebear]

I like Gamah!

Me too!

 

[Sendraks]

.... Country people with guns shooting them ?

I'd be lying if I thought that they had no part in it, but it was a small part. The main causes were the destruction of their traditional habitat, wetlands, which were being dredged for farming and for building on.

Hunters are usually the first to notice if a species is in decline and as a result, usually the first to take action.

Gamah - I appreciate your points regarding the cruelty of fox hunting, but until someone supplies some evidence to support the "ripping to shreds" part, it is just propaganda and it detracts from the strength of the point you are making. Far better to stick with the fact that pursuing and animal for hours is cruelty enough and indeed far worse than the hypothetical ripping to shreds bit.

 

[mts]

lol you silly brits

why dont you take up a normal hunting "sport" like deer or some birds? or you could follow in our footsteps and get yourself a big ass harpoon and kill some whale.

/shrug

also, how is chasing some fox torture? just because he has a high heart beat rhythm and is scared?

i agree it's a silly sport, i just dont see the torture aspect of it.

here is dictionary.com's definition of torture:

tor·ture ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tôrchr)
n.

1. a) Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
b) An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain.
3. Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.
4. Something causing severe pain or anguish.

 

[Gamah]

Well its a known fact that they way dogs kill is biting the throat area to rip it out or sufficate the target..Just watch any wildlife program about animals kill, and thats proof enough. Also its not the killing alone but the killing combine with the absolute fear a fox must feel for an extended period of time...The cruelty is emotional as well as physical. Also untill someone provides you with evidence, its an opinion not propaganda, known as a normative view in Economic terms.

 

[Gamah]

also, how is chasing some fox torture? just because he has a high heart beat rhythm and is scared?

i agree it's a silly sport, i just dont see the torture aspect of it.

here is dictionary.com's definition of torture:

tor·ture ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tôrchr)

3. Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.

Just answerd your own queston lol.

 

[Marczje]

Jesus, u think Foxes wait till their food drops dead of age? Doubt that, they use their teeth to kill. So the torn bunny by the fox is in fact less cruel then a dog doing the same to him?

 

[Sendraks]

Also untill someone provides you with evidence, its an opinion not propaganda, known as a normative view in Economic terms.

So if there were evidence here to support either view, then whichever view was supported by the evidence would then be propaganda?

Propaganda need not be based on any evidence for it to be propaganda. Strongly esposuing an unsubstantiated opinion (the fox is ripped to shreds for example) on the basis that it is fact, with the express view of getting others to buy into your point of view (which is what the anti-hunting crowd do) is propaganda. Its also a campaign of misinformation, should the facts being put forward turn out not to be true.

Within the context of this debate, having the opinion that the fox is torn to shreds would not be propaganda unless you were trying to use that imagery to sway the views of others or trying to pass it off as a fact without substantiation.

 

[mts]

Just answerd your own queston lol.

well the fox dies doesn't it? the whole thing with torture is that you live through it. if they kept the fox alive afterwards i would agree with it being torture.

 

[Marczje]

Also another point on your post...

The Government are the ones who draw up the bill, however it is Parliament that has to pass it though.

So its all the parties that have a seat in Parliament that have to vote, not just the Government. Then the bill is passed to the House of Lords who can reject the bill and send it back to Parliament. They can only reject a bill 3 times (if I remember correctly) then it is forced though if they want it or not, but it can delay the law being acted on for over a year.

So its not Tony's croanies trying to win votes it was a clear majority of PARLIAMENT, all parties that sit in the HoC.

I'm dutch, forgive me i don't know the details of ur political system.

 

[Gamah]

Jesus, u think Foxes wait till their food drops dead of age? Doubt that, they use their teeth to kill. So the torn bunny by the fox is in fact less cruel then a dog doing the same to him?

Differnce being, a fox does it to survive..these guys do it for "fun" its a sport to them. Now a sport that invloves the suffering of other living things is so outdated we live in a new age now.

I honestly can't believe your comparing nature to a sport run by rich boys.

Almost as outdated as buring a balck liquid to make out machines go

 

[Gamah]

So if there were evidence here to support either view, then whichever view was supported by the evidence would then be propaganda?

Propaganda need not be based on any evidence for it to be propaganda. Strongly esposuing an unsubstantiated opinion (the fox is ripped to shreds for example) on the basis that it is fact, with the express view of getting others to buy into your point of view (which is what the anti-hunting crowd do) is propaganda. Its also a campaign of misinformation, should the facts being put forward turn out not to be true.

Within the context of this debate, having the opinion that the fox is torn to shreds would not be propaganda unless you were trying to use that imagery to sway the views of others or trying to pass it off as a fact without substantiation.

Ok fair point on my use of words. It is not "ripped to shreads" but it is killed by being bitten by over 20-30 dogs...not a nice way to die.

 

[Cigies]

Hunters are usually the first to notice if a species is in decline and as a result, usually the first to take action.

You mean ..... damn we can't kill anything anymore, oh fuck we've killed em all, best start trying to make sure one or two survive heh ?

Very conservation minded of them I must say. Maybe if they didn't shoot the fucking things they wouldn't be in decline, lucky we have hunters too monitor the animal populations ....

 

[Sissyfoo]

well the fox dies doesn't it? the whole thing with torture is that you live through it. if they kept the fox alive afterwards i would agree with it being torture.

3. Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.
4. Something causing severe pain or anguish.

Duh!

Being tortured does not necessarily mean you will survive. Never heard the phrase 'tortured to death'?

 

[Gamah]

Being tortured does not necessarily mean you will survive. Never heard the phrase 'tortured to death'?

I am experiancing it reading some of these replys

 

[mts]

you guys talk as if you have actually witnessed a fox hunt. i'm kind of new to the exact details, so if some of you could please explain to me the following, that'd be great, thanks:

how long does it actually last? per fox that is.. is it hunted for several hours? if it goes on for more then 2 hours per fox (of actual hunting) i can agree on torture.

how long does it take for the dogs to kill the fox? and how many dogs are usually involved in a fox hunting pack?

 

[Gamah]

I have not seen one, but I have read a bit into it (both sides)

http://www.informationheadquarters.com/Sports/Fox_hunting.shtml

http://www.guardian.co.uk/hunt/Story/0,2763,1307452,00.html

http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com/animaluse/trapresearch/controltechniques/redfoxhunting.htm

http://www.supportfoxhunting.co.uk/ (For fox hunting)

http://www.nwlacs.co.uk/ (Against)

Here is some links to both sides of the argument..and some history.

Edit: Both the bottom 2 are not objective, so take and objective view to the information presented.

http://www.nwlacs.co.uk/foxhunting.htm and this page has some nice stats on foxhunting injurys. Its the dogs that get hurt too..which sucks even more :<

 

[Gamah]

Just read this

http://www.nwlacs.co.uk/cheshire_hunts.htm

Look at the bottom picture..what the fuck!!!!! I'm off to bag me some country fucks.

 

[mts]

okay i read up some on the subject, thanks for the links gamah. i found this particular bit to be interesting:

"When Fox Hunting in the United States, one rarely ever catches the fox. In
fact, much effort goes into training the foxes so that they do not get
caught."

sounds like someone could learn something from the good 'ol states.

and i must say the pack size (of the hounds) is quite big

i still dunno about the torture bit tho. barbaric, yes. cruel, yup. necessary, nay.

 

[Sissyfoo]

Well, if being chased by all those barking hounds and thundering horses for miles on end until you are too tired to run anymore does not constitute torture then ...

 

[mts]

that's the thing man, i dont have teh infoes. do they 'catch' like 10 foxes a day? or is it just 1? if it's just one animal chased for miles upon miles for hours on end then, sure, it's torture.

if they could just do it like in the states where the poor thing doesn't get caught i'd be happy. would be a shame if the 'sport' died all together, it seems to have strong traditional roots. if it went away completely i think it'd be a shame.

too much reading and typing for my poor littul hangover brain. i'll go away, don't mind mee.

 

[Tom]

Why are people concerning themselves with the actions of others, actions that have no direct bearing on their own lives, or that of anybody elses?

This has been going on for many hundreds of years, its been working fine all that time. Now along come a group of people who can't bear the thought of an Orange Dog being chased and killed by people with hounds, and suddenly its banned?

What next? Fishing - BANNED. Shooting Grouse - BANNED. Fly spray - BANNED.

If the vote were restricted to people purely in the know about this matter, the ban would never have been carried.

 

[Gamah]

If the vote were restricted to people purely in the know about this matter, the ban would never have been carried.

Like Mp's?

 

[harebear]

Why are people concerning themselves with the actions of others, actions that have no direct bearing on their own lives, or that of anybody elses?

This has been going on for many hundreds of years, its been working fine all that time. Now along come a group of people who can't bear the thought of an Orange Dog being chased and killed by people with hounds, and suddenly its banned?

What next? Fishing - BANNED. Shooting Grouse - BANNED. Fly spray - BANNED.

If the vote were restricted to people purely in the know about this matter, the ban would never have been carried.

As I dont do any of those things, I couldnt really give 2 fucks if they are banned I think if people wanna hunt with guns (if they can at least shoot stuff in the head ;s) then ye okay let them do that, but all the other shits lame. "Hunts kill around 20,000 foxes a year, but this is only 3% of the fox population." 20,000 tortured to 'control' a population, if they are really that big a problem why not go take em all out? :S

 

[harebear]

I think one day ill get some bear cubs, train em up all violent like then take em to some rich hunter guys house, then we shall have some fun chasing him around his land, tearing him apart etc.. sport is cool ><