rant about New Patch again

[Zey]

Out of the new patch, they made 4 good improvements and 6 bad improvements... so what was the point of an update? to make it worse?
This is my opinion and people are free to agree or disagree

Good Improvements:

1. The blocking of the sabers and the saber duels in general... More skill is needed to hit, plus using different stances can knock players of balance etc.

2. Made Force Drain use more mana to stop over use.

3. Made Force Heal use more mana to stop over use.

4. Heavy stances DFA: made so they cant turn in mid air.


Bad Improvements:

1. backslash/stab is undefendable so is just used constantly. lamers

2. Completely killed the strength of the sabers..... You watch the films, it's all defend and a good clean swipe to kill and anything with a weapon in their hands is fooked

3. Made Absorb way too Powerful... uses less mana, no delay inbetween using it, and cant be seen until someone uses a force power on them.

4. not sure if all argee with this, but not being able to run with grip.... it was easy to counter (force push/pull) so no need to dumb it down.

5. Light stance and medium stance have the same max damage. so ratio for damage is about 1:1:3.
Should be 1:2:3.

6. Light stances is the weakest stance for attack and defence.
Heavy stances is the strongest attack for attack and defence.. Anyone see a problem here?


My recommendations:

Sabers:
Heavy stance: 100hp for hits to the head or body, 50hp for legs or arms.

Medium stance: 100hp for hit to the head, 75hp for a body hit, 30hp for arm or leg hit.

Light stance: 80hp for hit to the head, 65hp for body, 25hp for arms or legs

Sabers should be balanced too:
light stance: Fasters, weakest hit, but strongest defence
medium stance: medium speed, medium stregth, medium defence.
Heavy stance: slowest, strongest hit, but weakest defence.

Backstab/slash: Either should not be able to move while doin it (moving left and right) or make it so it can be defended.

Maybe the backslash (medium and heavy stance one) should be blockable and backstab (light stance) should not be able to move while executing the move.

Force Powers:

Force Absorb: use the same mana as before.... but leave it so no one can see it... that's fair tbh.. it was too weak before, but now too powerful... needs to be balanced

Force Grip: Just put it back to what it was like before u swines

Force Push: I've noticed in the film, even when a jedi is knocked over they can still use the force.... Well what i'd liek to see is if someone is knocked over, it doesn't leave them totally invulnerable. We should be able to force push people even when you've fallen over, oviously not a powerful push, just enough to slow down anyone coming in for a backstab etc.

Ah i luv the kick in jk2 but there should be a kick buttom for a "roundhouse" kick just like in the films Darth Maul in ep1 and Obi-Wan in ep2. I know i'm wishing here

Force Lightning: I suppose you've all seen Episode 2 Quiz: When Count Dooku tries using force lightning on Obi-Wan what happens?
The answer is Obi-Wan blocks the lightning with his saber nuff said



Simple Questions?

Who are the most powerful people in the star wars galaxy?

What weapon do these power people use?

Why do they use this weapon?


just ask your self... does this game feel like star wars?

Without the sabers being the ultimate weapon, then no. simple. Make sabers more powerful, and all will be better.

If Raven dont do this or cant be arsed, fook em.. a 3rd party team will bring out an MOD that will make all the improvements that the people want, not what the editors can be fooked too do without asking the communtity.

*rant* *rant* *rant*

nuff said

 

[old.Rafferty]

Cool thought-out points (seems to be a rareity online these days) but I disagree with a few of them.

Personally I love the new patch, having come from the single player game into the multiplayer (sticking out all the labarynth non-saber weilding crap :]) I was really disapointed with how cumbersome the saber felt in multiplayer. It all seemed to be red stance with missed swings, very slow and not very star wars-like either.

As soon as the new patch came along I thought it was great, and suddenly the other stances become a lot more usefull. Saber battles are a lot more prolongued which I think really adds to the fun and feel, after all you never see any saber battles lasting two seconds in the films do you.

I think it's also closened the gap between newbies and (comparitively) veterans as loss or defeat is no longer govered by simply being able to master the timing of one red saber move.

In duels now I find myself switching from stance to stance depending on the situation, when compared to the one-tactic-only of the red stance of the previous version, can only be a good thing, as it makes the game more engaging.

On making the saber more powerful, I think if you did that, you would just be discouraging new players. They would join a server, get slaughtered time after time in a very short while, and lose all interest, which surely, as we are trying to encourage leagues and the like, we don't want to be doing.

I think the new patch has the balance almost right between 'killer moves' which can be a show of one's skill, exciting prolongued combat, and newbie-friendliness.

As for the force powers I only ever really use push and so wouldn't know (copped out of a rant there ).

*more rantage*

 

[FragFodder]

I agree with Zey on the Sabers needing to be more powerful. Yeah, the red stance should be one hit one kill (for a good clean swipe, but can no longer break through a defencive block). It's in the films so why different here?

Rafferty you have a valid point about 2 second duels m8, but whats the difference in the films between a Jedi and a Battle Droid? BOTH die relativly easily except the Jedi (using a Saber) will block any incomming shots, a droid wont/cant. I honestly believe that the key to Sabers is patience, its a case of waiting, waiting, waiting and when the moment is right getting your swing in (alot of the sabers v weapons fights in the films end with the droid killing itself because of the reflected shots). This is possible in the game, but I think there should be more of an emphasis on Blocking the shots and reflecting them back, rather that swing, accept a couple of hits and be done with it (This doesn't happen in the films). It shouldn't be worth the tradeoff (health for kill).
Watch the saber fights from the films, they are a case of 1 guy attacks and the other blocks. Then the second guy counters followed by a block and counter from the first guy again. Its this kind of thing that stops the 2 second duels purely because the guy blocks and doesn't go on a mad swinging mission. This can be recreated in JK2.

Ok so this leads me onto... (for those of you who aint read my other post http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21494 ) that the Reflectable weapons should also be more powerful to raise the stakes a little, if your a jedi you should block the incoming shots and only when its safe to do so attack back, when you swing your saber, you're lowering your only defence and a guy using a reflectable weapon should be able to make you pay by dishing out more damage.

Just my 2p worth

FF

 

[Zey]

Yeah that's really my point... make it like the film as much as possible...

The problem is there are two main type of players.....

The Star Wars Fans: Wants the game to be like the film

The Frag/Gaming fans: Wants the game to be like everything else, shoot like crazy or swing like crazy.

If you havent guessed i'm the star wars fan


There's always goin to be two different opinions, and that is respected by me

Anyway another FAULT again


Light stance: Should be the best stance for defence..

Medium... oviously medium

Red stance: Should the worst for defence


This should even the stances out a bit more again If it's added to my earlier post

 

[old.Kinneh]

tbh, i agree totally with Zey. What was the point in the new patch? It has wrecked the game for a start because now everyone uses absorb so force push/pulling them to the floor will not work and then with the toned down sabers, how the hell are you meant to kill someone?

From day 1 since the patch released i have seen whole servers fighting BACKWARDS, trying to kill with backstabs and then in the unlikely event if they do get hit with a saber, they all seem to run of and retool.

imho, the new patch should never of been released.

 

[old.Rafferty]

Originally posted by FragFodder
It shouldn't be worth the tradeoff (health for kill).
FF

I completely agree with you there, it shouldn't be the case that you have to sacrifice some health just to get a decent hit in, it should be down more to your skill.

I suppose the best way would be some happy mid-ground, where you can weild with skill, get some power behind your saber and have some longer lasting battles, which would be films exactly.

.......Plus they definately need to sort some way of getting a decent double ended lightsaber into the game, episode 1 needs to be recreated on ns_streets. :]

 

[FragFodder]

Nope m8... Episode one needs recreating on this map

http://www.jk2files.com/file.info?2734

FF

 

[old.Rafferty]

The episode 1 free-for-all map? My lowly modem has a corronary every time I try to play on that with all the people that can join and play on it. :]

 

[old.[UESC]Steve]

yeah but in the film, Jango Fett manages to shoot at least 1 jedi down and repeatdly kicked obi wans arse, admitdly he had to disarm him of his lightsaber, but hes still 1 gun user who didnt immidiatly fall to a light saber wielding jedi.

Obviously if they're running around with force absorb on then theres not much u can do in the way of disarming them, but surely thats them being lame with force powers and not guns. Correctly timing the force push and you can deflect anything you can deflect with you're saber.

And anyway, if you make sabers even more powerful then you'll make it even easier to knock them down then kill them in one. Which you've allready complained about being a problem.

 

[FragFodder]

I think sabers should be more powerful, not because of the 1 hit kills, we have to just accept that backswings etc will happen, but they may not happen as much if there isn't as big a need for them. You try telling Lamers that those Kills are lame, they aint gonna change their mind because of something a complete stranger said to them.

As I say, the Sabers AND Deflectable Shots should be made more powerful, because something has to tip the balance from Random Saber Swings to more skilled controlled movements.

As Kinneh said earlier in this tread, there has been whole servers just running backwards in the hope of gaining a BackSwing against a pack of peeps. This is worrying, and as they found with the Leap Forward move, if you tone it down/out, people willl only find something else. This needs to be addressed, if you make the sabers more powerful and the blasters more deadly then there will be more of an emphasis of watching your own back and running backwards into a pack of peeps would be suicide.

IMHO the only way this is gonna happen is if there is a high price to pay for a miss timed swing. It will make using the saber MUCH more difficult because of the close range etc, but like you said in the film Obi-Wan got his arse kicked because Jango Fett managed to disarm him and he shot that Jedi in the back/side (no excuse the Jedi was asking for it ). But what happened when Jango went 1v1 with a Jedi and his Saber, who was actually fighting him?? Jango was a skilled weapons user

I guess my point is...

It would be better if there was a bonus to actually using Blasters in this game, they arsen't used that often because they're too weak in multiplayer. I dont know about anyone else, but I try not to use guns, because there's no advantage to using the blasters as they'll aways get bounded back, and the odd shot you may get past the saber doesn't do enough damage. Weapons users cause the most damage when they Grab a rocket launcher (their choice, but i think its a little lame) then go ripping a pack of Sabers a new arsehole. I'm a little rusty on my starwars knowlegde but can anyone remember (other than Jango Fett who only had one shot anyway) the last time you saw a rocket in starwars ground combat?

I think the big explosive guns should be toned down and the blasters improved even with stronger sabers to actually put the Jedi at an ATTACKING DISADVANTAGE.

Just my 2p worth, and no, i'm not trying to start an arguement I'm in a good mood

FF

 

[Zey]

Top Part of the thread has been up-dated after more play with jk2. Please re-read the top again

 

[Ch3tan]

I've noticed too many players using a saber walking backwards and constantly stabbing. It is the ultimate lame manouver and needs to be toned down. I bought Jk2 mainly for online saber fights, but its turned out a tad dissapointing.

 

[Zey]

aye soz ch3tan It normally is a good fight when people dont do that... but there everywhere now and there's not alot that can be done until a new patch comes out.

I've written an email to the head programmer for jk2 for raven. Hopefully i'll get some answers and will post his reply on here. I dont do lame backstab so if you ever want a duel, give us a shout on irc

 

[old.Solid Scorpion]

simple

using guns = no use of force powers

using saber = use of force powers

simple?

zey, you confuse gamers with fraggers, but your points make sense, even though they've been said millions of times on other threads and boards.

Oh, and the back attacks should just be removed...permanently.
Only decent thing in new patch is being able to block heavy hits. Before, fights just looked like ppl swingin mid-air, coz u could hardly block them and had to evade.

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Zounds, you lot moaning about Raven messing something up, Surely not!

 

[Zey]

I've written an e-mail to the Head Raven programmer for jk2. The email and reply will be posted on this forum under "email to Raven"