RA maybe arent that good :p

[echekiel]

hi all
I just test the new patch and OMG RA are so cool but I think now it s no use of going RvR if u arent a stealther we tank and wiz already in 3sec so now what it will be 1sec ?
The only thing that RA will do is increasing the gap between all class and I think that it arent good
I would to know ur opinion or if I m flaming a bit too much ?

Echekiel Merc 50
Gatsu pala 28
<Dragon Knights>

 

[Talifer]

I agree with you Echekiel, the rich get richer and the poorer... well the poorer eat grass.

The RP surge will slow down now, everyone has been frantically scrabbling for RPs before 1.50 hits, basically because now RPs are going to be a little harder to get if you haven't already got some.

You thought catching that stealther before he could hide was hard before, try it now he has Ignore Pain, Vanish and Purge.

I'm not buying any realm abilities to start with, I want to see how much tougher it is out there without them.

Talifer

 

[Tranquil-]

It's only Infiltrators that get Vanish

 

[belth]

Only infils get Vanish, so no worries about that. It's a rubbish skill anyway IMHO.

With some suitable RA's stealthers aren't that hard really... IP & purge will make our life harder, unless we also have IP and/or purge...

Besides, getting IP, Vanish, Purge requires R6L1, which most of us aren't. There are total of 6 RR6 people on Excalibur atm, 1 RR7.
Also, having just both IP & Purge will be rare also, as it takes R4L3 for those and there's quite some other RAs that will override the other of those, except maybe for tanks... In prolonged 1v1 fights, Second Wind will become necessary unless both are duking it out without styles. That's another 3 RR's to get.

 

[)nick(]

Prolonged fights are no problems as the only end I will be using is for the evade chain and we all know that uses up little to no end

Backup styles are a great addition for this.

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by belth
Only infils get Vanish, so no worries about that. It's a rubbish skill anyway IMHO.

Yeah only infiltrators get Vanish, but I'm not one for accepting changes because they don't harm me or only if they benefit Albion. You have to think about the game as a whole, Midgard and Hibernia have to deal with Infiltrators. I want the game to be balanced not just balanced for me, my realm and my class.

Originally posted by belth

With some suitable RA's stealthers aren't that hard really... IP & purge will make our life harder, unless we also have IP and/or purge...

Besides, getting IP, Vanish, Purge requires R6L1, which most of us aren't. There are total of 6 RR6 people on Excalibur atm, 1 RR7.
Also, having just both IP & Purge will be rare also, as it takes R4L3 for those and there's quite some other RAs that will override the other of those, except maybe for tanks... In prolonged 1v1 fights, Second Wind will become necessary unless both are duking it out without styles. That's another 3 RR's to get.

I think you're missing the point here, the point is these stealther classes get RPs easier than the likes of, say tanks.

Average Realm Points
Ranger 415 523
Scout 387 991
Infiltrator 326 657
Shadowblade 296 472
Minstrel 288 750
Hunter 266 973
Nightshade 257 119
Skald 221 423
...
Mercenary 114 840
Thane 109 244
Warden 103 816
Warrior 98 151
Armsman 94 272
Paladin 74 741
Shaman 65 367
Friar

To get Ignore Pain and Purge = RR4L4 = 286000

This means the "average" Minstrel, Shadowblade, Infiltrator, Scout and Ranger can afford both.

None of the bottom classes can afford both

Ignore Pain = RR3L3 = 94875

So the average Armsman, Paladin, Shaman and Friar can't even afford Ignore Pain.

So stealthers can easily afford these realm abilities while the weaker RvR classes cannot.

Ignore Pain, Vanish and Purge aren't the only things stealthers can extend their lead with, look at dodger. They can already dodge a fair amount, with dodger they will become very hard to hit, and while dodging works in RvR, parry and block don't (properly anyway).

Talifer

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Talifer

I think you're missing the point here, the point is these stealther classes get RPs easier than the likes of, say tanks.

Average Realm Points
Ranger 415 523
Scout 387 991
Infiltrator 326 657
Shadowblade 296 472
Minstrel 288 750
Hunter 266 973
Nightshade 257 119
Skald 221 423
...
Mercenary 114 840
Thane 109 244
Warden 103 816
Warrior 98 151
Armsman 94 272
Paladin 74 741
Shaman 65 367
Friar

To get Ignore Pain and Purge = RR4L4 = 286000

This means the "average" Minstrel, Shadowblade, Infiltrator, Scout and Ranger can afford both.

None of the bottom classes can afford both

Ignore Pain = RR3L3 = 94875

So the average Armsman, Paladin, Shaman and Friar can't even afford Ignore Pain.

So stealthers can easily afford these realm abilities while the weaker RvR classes cannot.

Aaaah, lies, damn lies and statistics. Nevermind that these averages only look at level 50 characters, and there are currently only 11 Level 50 rangers, 16 level 50 infiltrators, etc.. while there are 65 level 50 Armsmen.

Look at another statistic RPs earned last 7 days in Albion:

1) Alpha Male (50th lvl Highlander Minstrel - Phoenix Knight) [Herfølge Boldklub] 192,297
2) Outlaw (50th lvl Avalonian Theurgist - Eagle Knight) [Guardians of Light] 169,529
3) Aussie (50th lvl Briton Scout - Phoenix Knight) [Dragon Knights] 156,679
4) Konah (50th lvl Highlander Mercenary - Gryphon Knight) [First Cohort] 138,515
5) Mazsola Slowhand (50th lvl Highlander Minstrel - Eagle Knight) [Shadowlords Society] 128,729
6) Dhs (50th lvl Avalonian Wizard - Myrmidon) [First Cohort] 114,438
7) Arthwyr Pendragon (50th lvl Briton Paladin - Gryphon Knight) [First Cohort] 106,145
8) Mad TheDragon (50th lvl Highlander Minstrel - Eagle Knight) [Black Falcons] 102,108
9) Tahngarth KaoS (50th lvl Saracen Scout - Eagle Knight) [Guardians of Light] 96,231
10) Zagg Barr (50th lvl Saracen Infiltrator - Gryphon Knight) [Guardians of Light] 95,268
11) Chim Aira (50th lvl Highlander Cleric - Gryphon Knight) [Defectu Virium Elite] 95,052
12) Edelia (47th lvl Highlander Minstrel - Gryphon Knight) [Guardians of Light] 93,887
13) Krane BattleShout (50th lvl Highlander Minstrel - Eagle Knight) [Red Devils] 92,599
14) Elfslayer TheFeared (50th lvl Avalonian Cabalist - Gryphon Knight) [Crusaders of Albion] 91,676
15) Zoyster (50th lvl Avalonian Wizard - Eagle Knight) [Guardians of Light] 91,435
16) Sorusi (50th lvl Saracen Sorcerer - Gryphon Knight) [First Cohort] 90,297
17) Stone Cold (50th lvl Highlander Mercenary - Gryphon Knight) [Black Falcons] 89,798
18) Pin StNeedles (50th lvl Saracen Infiltrator - Gryphon Knight) [Shadowlords Society] 87,167
19) Huma (50th lvl Highlander Armsman - Eagle Knight) [Herfølge Boldklub] 86,211
20) Daivana (50th lvl Briton Cleric - Gryphon Knight) [Herfølge Boldklub] 85,520
21) Ark Woodeworm (50th lvl Highlander Minstrel - Gryphon Knight) [First Cohort] 85,153
22) Neon (50th lvl Highlander Cleric - Myrmidon) [First Cohort] 83,211
23) Cronn Nithell (50th lvl Briton Friar - Myrmidon) [First Cohort] 82,164
24) Aikmore (50th lvl Highlander Armsman - Gryphon Knight) [Herfølge Boldklub] 79,763
25) Nicolas Oeuf (50th lvl Saracen Infiltrator - Eagle Knight) [Phoenix Guard] 78,494


2nd highest RP earner in Albion last week was a Theurgist, 4th was a Mercenary, 6th was a Wizard, 7th was a Paladin, 11th was a Cleric, 14th was a Cabalist, 16th was a Sorcerer, 23rd was a Friar, etc, etc...

The highest Infiltrator was 10th, and there just 3 in the top 25. 6 Minstrels and 2 Scouts also there. The rest were non-stealthers.

So to say that Infiltrators can afford all these Realm Abilities much easier than any other class is obviously a distorted view of things.

If you are saying that you can't afford any of these Realm Abilities, then that is a completely different thing, and generalising your lack of ability/skill, or whatever (95% guaranteed to more likely be lack of /played time) onto anyone elses right to purchase abilities that they have earned is just sour grapes in my book.

Originally posted by Talifer

Ignore Pain, Vanish and Purge aren't the only things stealthers can extend their lead with, look at dodger. They can already dodge a fair amount, with dodger they will become very hard to hit, and while dodging works in RvR, parry and block don't (properly anyway).

Yes, and they all cost more and more RPs. Play more, get more RPs, get more abilities...

As for parry and block. Well, they consistently work against assassins in RvR, I am always being parried/blocked. Why? Because most of the time we are ungrouped, and the main bug in the current patch is that if you are fighting someone who is grouped, you won't parry/block.


Oh, and a quickie to Echekiel. Looking at your total, you need about 15 minutes more in Emain to afford Ignore Pain yourself (assassins find it VERY hard to kill anyone with Ignore Pain).

 

[Tranquil-]

The few stealthers that play enough to get high rps, increase the average so much it distorts the real average. The playerbase of stealthers are NOT high rp earners.

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by Tranquil-
The few stealthers that play enough to get high rps, increase the average so much it distorts the real average. The playerbase of stealthers are NOT high rp earners.

The same can be said about every class.

Infiltrator
1 Mallus Darkblade 867 238
2 Nicolas Oeuf 713 499
3 Brommix Boldhenter 573 505
4 Hysteric 443 532
5 Ninjastyle 431 363
6 Pin StNeedles 340 973
7 Harpy 323 866
8 Zagg Barr 313 215
9 Cute DragonGirl 270 064
10 Marrah Matricidia 255 959


Mercenary
1 Stone Cold 410 508
2 Konah 397 606
3 Matje TheUnprecedented 217 520
4 Minko EarnsAlot 184 131
5 Jch 182 405
6 Vladimir Pendragon 125 806
7 Saurons Minion 107 566
8 Echekiel Hellbringer 93 195
9 Memnock 68 025
10 Gendarion 60 318

So all your doing is moving the averages down a notch, the RvR friendly classes still earn more RPs than the not so RvR friendly classes, doesn't change the argument that the rich get richer.

Lets remove averages

Total number of level 50 chars
Mercenary 17
Infiltrator 16

Total number of chars who can afford Ignore Pain (Including sub 50s)
Mercenary 6
Infiltrator 15


Talifer

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Talifer

So all your doing is moving the averages down a notch, the RvR friendly classes still earn more RPs than the not so RvR friendly classes, doesn't change the argument that the rich get richer.

And why shouldn't the rich get richer?

'The Rich' are the ones who are playing most. Why shouldn't they get rewarded for playing more? It happened all the way through levelling, the ones who put the most time in got the levels quicker, got more cash, more loot, etc. Why should it level out once you're level 50? Why shouldn't characters get stronger the more they are played in RvR?

 

[Pin]

Hmmm....

4700 172 Talifer <Knights of Pendragon> the Level 33 Saracen Minstrel

You haven't even capped out of the battlegrounds, so I shouldn't worry too much about Ignore Pain if I were you.

 

[Talifer]

Pin are you seriously trying to suggest that the Paladin/Armsman/Mercenary/Friar can make RPs as easily as the Assassin/Scout?

If you believe that then there's nothing I can say that will make any dent in your beliefs. If you don't believe that then it doesn't matter what the stats say the "rich get richer" argument still stands.

Talifer

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by Pin
Hmmm....

4700 172 Talifer <Knights of Pendragon> the Level 33 Saracen Minstrel

You haven't even capped out of the battlegrounds, so I shouldn't worry too much about Ignore Pain if I were you.

And that's my main char?

Talifer

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by Pin


And why shouldn't the rich get richer?

'The Rich' are the ones who are playing most. Why shouldn't they get rewarded for playing more? It happened all the way through levelling, the ones who put the most time in got the levels quicker, got more cash, more loot, etc. Why should it level out once you're level 50? Why shouldn't characters get stronger the more they are played in RvR?

Ah I see, what you're also saying is that leveling to 50 is as easy with an infiltrator as it is as a minstrel? So all the infiltrators and scouts that complain they can't get in groups just don't play enough?

Talifer

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Talifer
Pin are you seriously trying to suggest that the Paladin/Armsman/Mercenary/Friar can make RPs as easily as the Assassin/Scout?

Yes. I am saying that Paladins, Armsmen, Mercenaries and Friars can make RPs as easily as Assassins and Scouts. RPs come much faster to gank squads charging around with speed and mezz than they do to assassins. It's all about the amount of time you play your character and how efficient you can be while doing so. As I gave the list for the top RP earners in the last 7 days that should be quite apparent.

Sure, Scouts and Assassins being outside a group will gain more RPs per kill that people in a group, but we'll spend a lot longer getting to where we're going, spend a lot longer waiting for a target, and as we're away from most of the rest of our realm mates, spend a lot longer porting back after releasing.

Originally posted by Talifer
If you believe that then there's nothing I can say that will make any dent in your beliefs. If you don't believe that then it doesn't matter what the stats say the "rich get richer" argument still stands.

If you can only read the statistic which backs up your point of view then I can't really dent your beliefs. If on the other hand you can read the statistic that I posted about the top RP earners for last week, and not just dismiss it out of hand like you appear to have done, then you might actually be credited with having a modicum of intelligence. So far you haven't given much indication of that.

Originally posted by Talifer
And that's my main char?

That's apparently the only one you're proud of as that's how you sign your posts. What else do the readers (that don't know you in game) have to go by?

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Talifer


Ah I see, what you're also saying is that leveling to 50 is as easy with an infiltrator as it is as a minstrel? So all the infiltrators and scouts that complain they can't get in groups just don't play enough?

Talifer

No. Levelling an Infiltrator to 50 is certainly not easy, the biggest indication of that would probably be that there are only 16 of them total. If you go back before the previous patch a month ago(which gave 2.5x spec points, increased poison effectiveness and lots of other tweaks that made the class actually playable) there were only 2 (that I know of... maybe there were 3) - I was only 46 at patch.

Interesting that you quote a minstrel though, as there are 6 RR5+ minstrels (one RR6), but only 3 RR5 Infiltrators (no RR6).

And besides, I have no idea how what I said could have implied that at all.

 

[Javai]

Originally posted by Pin


2nd highest RP earner in Albion last week was a Theurgist, 4th was a Mercenary, 6th was a Wizard, 7th was a Paladin, 11th was a Cleric, 14th was a Cabalist, 16th was a Sorcerer, 23rd was a Friar, etc, etc...

Well while we're on the subject of statistics lying these figures do not take into account whether these characters were grouped and if so who in the group was dealing the damage. I'm a Paladin stick me in a group in a keep defence with a wizard I'll make rps. Says notihng about my skill or the abilities of my class. As far as I can tell rps earned this week is most heavily dependent on the amount of time people have to play.

Regardless of difference between classes the realm abilities will simply widen the gap people players with jobs and players without as the amount of rps you have is heavily related to the amount of time you have to play

 

[Tranquil-]

Doh, you must look at what they had and what the have.
Earlier they could oneshot and still be stealthed, that way they could farm rp's. That's one change, there are several, I'm not going to mention them now. Now it put's them at risk, it will slow them down in their hunt for rp.

Yes, they had an advantage, yes they got more rp(the few that levelled up. There are more infiltrators than Mercenaries.), that's the reason theire abilities have changed. And it was only a few that did get that rp. It's not like the entire army of stealthers have that advantage. As always there will be a few that are ontop, don't fool yourself to believe that they are the only ones that you will meet. Stealthers still have an advantage against solo people, that's why people are starting to group, which on the other hand makes it impossible to farm rp like they used to.

Don't you think that the other classes will catch up with them soon? RA's don't make the ubers more uber, that together with the tweaks in this patch and the upcoming are balancing it more and more.

So all your doing is moving the averages down a notch, the RvR friendly classes still earn more RPs than the not so RvR friendly classes, doesn't change the argument that the rich get richer.

Not everyone are soloing are they?
If people group in this patch, and use the different classes abilities they can keel the rp farmers. How many times do you think they will /release and come back? After a while they will give up, and start to group. Oh and btw, rich get's slower richer now. The RA's themselves aren't effective to the extent that they give the ones having them that a substantial headstart.
Except the ones with extremely high rp's The RA's given to all classes makes it possible to stay alive enough to get away in one
way or the other. In most cases you will atleast get a chance.

Anyway, it will even out as ppl get that farming going. Farming takes time, take that into consideration aswell. I think you are looking at it from a too negative aspect. Don't purely look at what others get, look at what you get and what you can do with it aswell.

I'll knick Radghast's quote here: "if a battle cant be won, don't fight it" <sun tzu>

 

[old.Ramas]

And why shouldn't the rich get richer?

No problem with the rich getting richer - but the problem comes when they are accelerating away and throwing up road blocks behind them.

Current RR5s and above did so in a world where everyone worth 500 rps did not have IP, Purge, See Hidden and so on.

Guess we'll see how this balances out over time, but tbh, it's not something that worries me a lot.

Ifils, scouts, minstrels, and other stealthers will always get a butt ton more rps per hour than some other classes because...

(a) They are rvr viable solo
(b) Others want them in rvr groups

This is (surprise surprise) no different to how some classes level quicker than others because...

(a) They are pve viable solo
(b) Others want them in pve groups

Perhaps the only slight difference is that solo play with the zerg (and sometimes without) is less dull in rvr than in pve, and it's rewards scale properly up to high levels in rvr, where it does not in pve.

Stop viewing the game as a race to the top of the realm rp list, and you'll feel a lot happier - compare yourself within the class by all means, but cross class comparison gets futile quick.

Even if assassins were overpowered , why does this matter? Just view them as level 60 mobs.

Realm would still be stuffed if we were all assassins - no siege engines, no rezzing, and how on earth would you gather all that uber loot from the big guys in pve?

But at the same time, with no assassins we'd not be much better. No sneaking into keeps to kill the gtaoer, no spotting incoming stealthers with see hidden, and so on.

You aren't competing with either your realm mate assassins, or even enemy ones for that matter. You're scoring points on a different scale.

Diversity. Get used to it.

Regards,

Arindra (rejuv-a-mole cleric)
Arindrey (matter cab)

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by Pin


Yes. I am saying that Paladins, Armsmen, Mercenaries and Friars can make RPs as easily as Assassins and Scouts. RPs come much faster to gank squads charging around with speed and mezz than they do to assassins. It's all about the amount of time you play your character and how efficient you can be while doing so. As I gave the list for the top RP earners in the last 7 days that should be quite apparent.

Well then you're playing a different game to everyone else. I'll tell you what your stats on RP earners in the last 7 days shows:

Out of the top 25
11 (44%) are stealthers, 14 (56%) are non stealthers

Total level 50s (I'm not talking lower levels into account, the line has to be drawn somewhere)

61 (19%) are stealthers, 264 (81%) are non stealthers

So the last weeks RP earners shows that ~19% of the albion population holds ~44% of the top spots. But obviously from what you're saying this is due to one or two individuals that distort the stats, and at the same time other classes don't contain these types of individuals

Originally posted by Pin

Sure, Scouts and Assassins being outside a group will gain more RPs per kill that people in a group, but we'll spend a lot longer getting to where we're going, spend a lot longer waiting for a target, and as we're away from most of the rest of our realm mates, spend a lot longer porting back after releasing.

Pin, the stats speak for themselves, I'm not making this stuff up, stealthers have alot more rps than most non stealthers, fact!

Originally posted by Pin

If you can only read the statistic which backs up your point of view then I can't really dent your beliefs. If on the other hand you can read the statistic that I posted about the top RP earners for last week, and not just dismiss it out of hand like you appear to have done, then you might actually be credited with having a modicum of intelligence. So far you haven't given much indication of that.

I've just come back to your point, mainly because your point of last weeks earners didn't really prove anything other than one or two individuals had a good week.

Originally posted by Pin

That's apparently the only one you're proud of as that's how you sign your posts. What else do the readers (that don't know you in game) have to go by?

That's where you and me differ, I believe what I post on this board stands on it's own merit, the characters I have in the game neither prove nor disprove my point. If my points are not valid then disprove them with good arguments rather than bringing my game characters into it like that proves your point or something?

Talifer

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Javai

Well while we're on the subject of statistics lying these figures do not take into account whether these characters were grouped and if so who in the group was dealing the damage. I'm a Paladin stick me in a group in a keep defence with a wizard I'll make rps. Says notihng about my skill or the abilities of my class. As far as I can tell rps earned this week is most heavily dependent on the amount of time people have to play.

Well, If you look at the list. You'll find 7 members of First Cohort. As you may know, they are on around 12 hours a day, all grouped, all perma-farming. That's how you make RPs. Saying that Konah and Arthwyr only have RPs because they were grouped with Dhs and Sorusi (or which ever way around you put it) could be considered a little insulting to them. The reasaon they all have RPs is because they all contribute and make a good gank squad.

Originally posted by Javai

Regardless of difference between classes the realm abilities will simply widen the gap people players with jobs and players without as the amount of rps you have is heavily related to the amount of time you have to play

And that is exactly what I was saying. All it takes to make the RPs is time. Play long enough and you'll get RR10 (6 million RPs isn't all that much when you think about it )

 

[Javai]

Originally posted by Pin


Saying that Konah and Arthwyr only have RPs because they were grouped with Dhs and Sorusi (or which ever way around you put it) could be considered a little insulting to them.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say that at all. The point was that in RvR group composition matters especially for tank classes

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by Pin


No. Levelling an Infiltrator to 50 is certainly not easy, the biggest indication of that would probably be that there are only 16 of them total. If you go back before the previous patch a month ago(which gave 2.5x spec points, increased poison effectiveness and lots of other tweaks that made the class actually playable) there were only 2 (that I know of... maybe there were 3) - I was only 46 at patch.

Interesting that you quote a minstrel though, as there are 6 RR5+ minstrels (one RR6), but only 3 RR5 Infiltrators (no RR6).

And besides, I have no idea how what I said could have implied that at all.

I quote

'The Rich' are the ones who are playing most. Why shouldn't they get rewarded for playing more? It happened all the way through levelling, the ones who put the most time in got the levels quicker, got more cash, more loot, etc. Why should it level out once you're level 50? Why shouldn't characters get stronger the more they are played in RvR?

You're saying here that leveling to 50 is just time dependant I'm afraid you can't have it both ways. If it's harder for an infiltrator to level to 50 than it is for a minstrel, why do you flatly refuse to believe that it's harder for a tank to gain RP than it is for an Infiltrator? I'll tell you why, because you play an infiltrator and you don't want to believe you are at an advantage as such.

And I quote minstrel, because minstrels are group friendly infiltrators are seen as not group friendly, this therefore illustrates my point that infiltrators are harder to level, see? And then you tag a RvR argument onto a PvE issue, realm rank has nothing to do with leveling to 50 (As yet).

Talifer

 

[Tranquil-]

Talifer, there are tanks that make 180-190k rp a week, aswell as there's assassins/archers doing it. What does this tell you?
You can't tell me they have simply been lucky.

The more time you spend in rvr the more rp you get.

Pin's post summed it up nicely. You are simply comparing %, which IS distorted.

If you go look at this list I think you will find that most classes are represented on the top 100 list.
w00t? an armsman on 3rd spot?
"isn't that impossible?" sigh..

 

[Talifer]

Tranquil I see what you are trying to say and to an extent I agree, I believe Mythic ARE trying to balance these issues and in the long run I'm sure they will achieve some form of balance. But I'm talking about now, I'm talking about the average realm points for different classes and the immediate advantage it will give these classes right now as we enter 1.50.
I'm not going to quit the game because of this, I'm not in uproar screaming to the hills how unfair it is. But don't tell me the gap doesn't exist, because it does, hopefully it will fade and everyone will be on a level playing field. Mythic have fixed one shot and the other bugs you haven't mentioned in order to accomplish this, so presumably even Mythic realise there is a gap.

So it's something Mythic and most of the people playing can see (And hopefully address in time) vs Pin who blindly believes Blademasters have it as good as Infiltrators.

Talifer

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Talifer


Well then you're playing a different game to everyone else. I'll tell you what your stats on RP earners in the last 7 days shows:

Out of the top 25
11 (44%) are stealthers, 14 (56%) are non stealthers

Total level 50s (I'm not talking lower levels into account, the line has to be drawn somewhere)

61 (19%) are stealthers, 264 (81%) are non stealthers

So the last weeks RP earners shows that ~19% of the albion population holds ~44% of the top spots. But obviously from what you're saying this is due to one or two individuals that distort the stats, and at the same time other classes don't contain these types of individuals

And again I make the point that there is no stat available showing the amount of time played by any of these characters.

Originally posted by Talifer

Pin, the stats speak for themselves, I'm not making this stuff up, stealthers have alot more rps than most non stealthers, fact!

I disagree here again. You should say:
"Some stealthers have a lot more rps than most non-stealthers, and some non-stealthers have a lot more rps than most stealthers, fact!"

But that wouldn't be nearly as broad a generalisation as you were hoping to make in your post, so therefore you didn't post that.

Originally posted by Talifer
I've just come back to your point, mainly because your point of last weeks earners didn't really prove anything other than one or two individuals had a good week.

So if a stealther is in the top 25 then all stealthers are overpowered, and make RPs much easier than everyone else and it has nothing to do with them playing for 100 hours that week, but if a Mercenary, Wizard, Theurgist, Friar, Paladin or whatever gets in the top 25 then they are the exception to the rule, they had a good week, they were lucky with their 2000 kills, they leeched them off other group members, etc, etc ?

Originally posted by Talifer
That's where you and me differ, I believe what I post on this board stands on it's own merit, the characters I have in the game neither prove nor disprove my point. If my points are not valid then disprove them with good arguments rather than bringing my game characters into it like that proves your point or something?

Also, I am hardly saying that because I have a level 50 infiltrator, I therefore can speak with authority and coherency about any subject. If anything it'll allow people to completely disregard any statement I make due to me obviously being biased.

 

[Tranquil-]

1 Mistwraith Enchanter 50 721162 Lancelot

<cough> rp's in ONE week <cough>

 

[Talifer]

Originally posted by Tranquil-
Talifer, there are tanks that make 180-190k rp a week, aswell as there's assassins/archers doing it. What does this tell you?
You can't tell me they have simply been lucky.

The more time you spend in rvr the more rp you get.

Pin's post summed it up nicely. You are simply comparing %, which IS distorted.

If you go look at this list I think you will find that most classes are represented on the top 100 list.
w00t? an armsman on 3rd spot?
"isn't that impossible?" sigh..

Yes there are tanks that make 180-190k rp a week and this affects the average for all tanks, just like the stealthers that play all day affect the average for stealthers. So tell me why the you think we can completely disregard the average stats for tanks and stealthers? Because it doesn't fit what you are saying? Well I'm afaid it might not fit your argument but the averages speak for themselves, on average stealthers have more rps than tanks. It's as simple as that, so with 1.50 the stealthers can afford more realm abilities than tanks, putting them at an advantage.

The link you posted is irrelevant since it includes all the US servers (And still the top 10 contains 3 scouts straight away). Things have changed and there has been more time to settle since 1.50-1.52 on the US servers. Like I said, I'm not saying things don't get better but at this point in time stealthers are at an advantage, just like tanks are at an advantage over stealthers in PvE.

Talifer

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Talifer
You're saying here that leveling to 50 is just time dependant I'm afraid you can't have it both ways. If it's harder for an infiltrator to level to 50 than it is for a minstrel, why do you flatly refuse to believe that it's harder for a tank to gain RP than it is for an Infiltrator? I'll tell you why, because you play an infiltrator and you don't want to believe you are at an advantage as such.

And I quote minstrel, because minstrels are group friendly infiltrators are seen as not group friendly, this therefore illustrates my point that infiltrators are harder to level, see? And then you tag a RvR argument onto a PvE issue, realm rank has nothing to do with leveling to 50 (As yet).

Yes, levelling to 50 is just time dependant. If you are able to safely kill a green con mob, then eventually you'll hit 50.

Pre patch 1.48 (in Europe, as a collection of 1.46, 47 and 48), Infiltrators couldn't actually safely kill a blue con mob solo, and offered (still offer) very little to any group, so yes. It was harder than a lot of classes (you'll also notice I have an earth spec Theurgist, so I know how easy levelling can be also).

And I'll state again, as you haven't yet spotted me saying it:

Groups in RvR make faster RPs than Infiltrators do solo. FACT! Almost however that group is made up, as long as it has speed and mezz it will make RPs much faster.

The reason I don't do this is that I enjoy playing my character solo, Infiltrators are a lot of fun (especially all the funky ninja moves). I cannot stand zergs. Low frame rate is usually immediate death to an infiltrator whose primary attack is from stealth and front positional. My computer is so crap that I cannot even /stick to someone running up a hill without dropping off the back, let alone charge around emain in a gank squad.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Talifer
Yes there are tanks that make 180-190k rp a week and this affects the average for all tanks, just like the stealthers that play all day affect the average for stealthers. So tell me why the you think we can completely disregard the average stats for tanks and stealthers? Because it doesn't fit what you are saying? Well I'm afaid it might not fit your argument but the averages speak for themselves, on average stealthers have more rps than tanks. It's as simple as that, so with 1.50 the stealthers can afford more realm abilities than tanks, putting them at an advantage.

Of course it affects the averages for all tanks, but as I said. There are 65 level 50 armsmen and 16 level 50 Infiltrators. Now, which would be distorted more by 8 people playing 10 times as much as the rest?

The sample size is just not big enough for the Infiltrators where only 2% of them are level 50, but 5.5% of Armsmen are level 50. Why don't you compile averages for the top 20% of the two classes and have another look, or would that statistic not illustrate your point of view well enough?

Again I quote Benjamin Disraeli:
"Lies, damn lies and statistics"