EILITDC Questions....

Deebs

Chief Arsewipe
Staff member
Moderator
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 11, 1997
Messages
9,075,247
Firstly, let me explain EILITDC, Explain It Like I'm @TdC

Now, the purpose of the thread, ask a question, and have it explained in the above manner to your satisfaction without any indepth scientific masters degree explanations.

Here goes mine,

If the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?
 

Deebs

Chief Arsewipe
Staff member
Moderator
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 11, 1997
Messages
9,075,247
Christ, I am trying to understand complex questions with the most simplest of minds, ie @TdC
 

Ormorof

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
8,819
I liked the question so i googled!

It depends on what theory you hold to, if a finite universe is expanding then there must be something outside the universe it is expanding into, however as we are inside it we have no way of looking out

If the universe is infinite then it is not expanding but stretching, so while galaxies are not moving away from each other but the space in between is stretching out (but to us on earth they appear to be getting further away)
 

Deebs

Chief Arsewipe
Staff member
Moderator
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 11, 1997
Messages
9,075,247
Still not happy. What is the universe expanding into ? What is there outside of the universe? Something must exist for the universe to expand into, so what is it?
 

Job

The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
21,225
It creates the space as it expands...I like to think its pushing non space out of the way.
 

Zarjazz

Self Isolating aka Busy Procrastinating
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
2,101
... Something must exist for the universe to expand into ...
Incorrect, this is the logic mistake almost everyone makes when they ask this question. The expansion of the universe literally creates the space it expands into.

The usual analogy is imagine the universe being a balloon with space the surface. Everything expanding outward is then caused by the stretching of the surface. But the balloon is actually a four dimensional space-time and the "surface" is now the 3D volume of space.
 

Tom

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
15,991
Still not happy. What is the universe expanding into ? What is there outside of the universe? Something must exist for the universe to expand into, so what is it?
Since our frame of reference is, for the foreseeable future, fixed in this solar system, it isn't a question that can be answered. We can only view the edge of the observable universe, which for us is just over 90 billion light years wide. We are in the exact centre of that observable universe. We can only speculate as to what's outside the observable universe - we have no way of knowing how large the universe is. We'll almost certainly never be able to see beyond the observable universe and therefore we will not be able to see if an "edge" exists.
 

Moriath

I am a FH squatter
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
14,516
We are expanding into the space between other universes. ;).
 

BloodOmen

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
16,280
Who knows? until scientists can travel wayyyyyy beyond what they're capable now, anything that is said is just speculation with no hard facts to back it up... for all we know it could be a morbidly obese alien trillions of light years a way trying to suck us all in, it could be a black hold dragging us apart which then begs the question - does that mean there are blackholes surrounding us dragging us apart in different directions.

Summary - fuck knows.
 

fettoken

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
9,577
Someone mentioned knowing the math behind it all is essential in understanding and formulating the correct questions.
 

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
16,892
Incorrect, this is the logic mistake almost everyone makes when they ask this question. The expansion of the universe literally creates the space it expands into.

The usual analogy is imagine the universe being a balloon with space the surface. Everything expanding outward is then caused by the stretching of the surface. But the balloon is actually a four dimensional space-time and the "surface" is now the 3D volume of space.
This is the most practical analogy we have right now, even though I know it doesn't actually feel like it answers the question "but what is it expanding into?" That's because us 3D creatures can't visually 4D (or 5D if you treat time as 4) very easily.

I've kind of come to terms with never being able to visualise spacetime and just accept the maths sort of works apparently.
 

fettoken

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
9,577
This is the most practical analogy we have right now, even though I know it doesn't actually feel like it answers the question "but what is it expanding into?" That's because us 3D creatures can't visually 4D (or 5D if you treat time as 4) very easily.

I've kind of come to terms with never being able to visualise spacetime and just accept the maths sort of works apparently.
Well, time is an extremely intricate subject, just as an example, and according to Einstein's theories that if you would travel with an approximate speed of 99.9 something % short of the speed of light to a certain destination and back, that in your 'space time' would take 4 weeks, others would, during that 'time' experience it as a number of years gone by. According to theory.
 

Scouse

Job-worshipper and all round follower of cunts.
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
28,147
You should read Flatland, it's a great book that shows how hard it is to comprehend other dimensions.

But, basically, we're expanding into a large warty vagina.
 

Zarjazz

Self Isolating aka Busy Procrastinating
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
2,101
This is the most practical analogy we have right now, even though I know it doesn't actually feel like it answers the question "but what is it expanding into?"
The other way to think of it is that before the Big Bang there was no space or time so there is very specifically and precisely "nothing" outside the universe that was created.

... According to theory.
Time dilation has been experimentally proved many many times.
 

Scouse

Job-worshipper and all round follower of cunts.
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
28,147
Explain it like @TdC would explain it:

"It's like this. My friendly lezza says it's expanding between her labia, but she won't show me. But that's OK, because I'm down with her not showing me. :eek: But when I'm architecting a new solution my bosses don't understand the size of my friendly lezzas labia, or the fact that my code can correct for the expansion of the universe. But she still won't let me see her flaps.

:eek:...

....Mojito?"


...Q.E.fuck-ing-D.
 

dysfunction

I am a FH squatter
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,014
The balloon idea doesn't make sense to me because the balloon is in a space that allows it to expand.

Also before the big bang there was "nothing" but there must have been something even if it we don't know what it is or proof that it exists.
 

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
16,892
The balloon idea doesn't make sense to me because the balloon is in a space that allows it to expand.

Also before the big bang there was "nothing" but there must have been something even if it we don't know what it is or proof that it exists.
Hence my point that the balloon analogy falls down because you can't imagine the surface of the "balloon" isn't expanding into anything is the expansion itself.
 

Zarjazz

Self Isolating aka Busy Procrastinating
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
2,101
The balloon idea doesn't make sense to me because the balloon is in a space that allows it to expand.
That's why it's an analogy and not a mathematically exact description of 4 dimensional space-time manifolds. ;)

... but there must have been something ...
Why? You're trying to force your everyday experience of the world onto something that's very very far from normal. It's similar to why most people (i.e. everyone) have major conceptual problems when learning about Quantum Mechanics.
 

dysfunction

I am a FH squatter
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,014
That's why it's an analogy and not a mathematically exact description of 4 dimensional space-time manifolds. ;)



Why? You're trying to force your everyday experience of the world onto something that's very very far from normal. It's similar to why most people (i.e. everyone) have major conceptual problems when learning about Quantum Mechanics.
So you are saying it's possible to remove a piece of the universe and leave nothing there?
 

TdC

Trem's hunky sex love muffin
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
30,693
Imo it's balloons in other balloons. Also, Scouse is correctish. Maybe!
 

BloodOmen

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
16,280
On a more serious note - think of the universe as a pond... what happens when you drop a brick into a pond? ripples expand outwards, same shit with our universe I guess? the big bang being the brick obviously.
 

Ormorof

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
8,819
But before the big bang there was nothing to ripple through
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top Bottom