Question on rvr tactics

[bracken_woodman]

Having received a rather obnoxious /send tonight (from an individual who shall remain nameless) after albs got defeated by a large number of mids at atk, thought I'd put this question out regarding tactics in rvr.

There was a battle at atk - a few groups of albs against slightly higher number of mids. Im in the following group:

Me (s/s arms), ice wizzie, sorc, cleric, theurg, minstrel and merc.

During the battle I concentrated on slamming anything that came close to our casters. About 4 times got enemy tanks off our casters. As the battle went on the albs were slowly being beaten - I stuck to my task but died shortly after running out of endurance as our casters fell. Albs were finally beaten.

I then got a send saying I should have attacked the enemy healers. I explained what my role had been (ie trying to defend our casters), and said our merc had been attacking their healers as would our casters (though in hindsight our casters may not have been ). The person then persists in telling me that I shouldnt have defended our casters but that I personally should have attacked their healers. What's more the tone was obnoxious and patronising.

My reasons for defending our casters were as follows:

1. If I allowed them to fall we'd not have lasted as long as we did and our sorc was doing as good a job as she could in cc and demezzing which was helping the albs as a whole.

2. I was the only s/s tank in the group, if we'd had another I might have been able to go more offensive.

3. s/s tanks don't do enough damage to quickly take down healers, so although I might have been able to keep 1 out of the 4 occupied I felt on balance I was best serving the group (and the battle as a whole) by keeping our casters alive as long as possible.

4. If I'd gone wandering off leaving our casters/cleric undefended I'd likely have been lynched by them

The conversation ended with me saying to the person that when he understood what a defensive tank does then to come back and talk to me again. His reply was "Welcome to ignore".

So Im interested to hear opinions (not flames). If I screwed up then I'll learn the lesson - but having a reasonable amount of rvr experience and having a particular role in that group my initial thought is that on this occasion I served the group (and the battle as a whole) as best I could.

 

[samildanachh]

i think u did right, u want the high dmg dealers taking our their casters inf,ur own casters etc. u cant leave ur casters defenceless or theyll just get melee'd to death.

 

[kirennia]

much like an incident not so long ago from again, some1 who will remain nameless. We were 1fg, hibs were 2fg and we got wiped out (suprisingly). Then in the cg the person in question says 'lol, what happened, you do know that healers should be your first target...'

This person was at amg and the battle happened at hmg. They then said 'whats wrong with you? were the flashy armours of the tanks too dazzling for you?' or summit to that effect.

For some1 who was not present, was not involved in the fight and had no1 relaying info, thas pretty obnoxious.

Bit off topic but back to your comment, s/s tanks are there for defence. Tho not as good as pallies, they still primarily are there for defence. Have been in many grps with ya and other s/s tanks though their usefulness isn't in question here, getting a guard does generally help quite a lot. You did right, if you were an offensive armsman then you would be 2handed/pole user

 

[swords]

aye you did the right thing.
its mugs like me who have to charge the enemy support and get slammed not you.

 

[artemus]

yep S&S tank is for defence, try and take out a mid healer and youll be there most of the day unless a zerker comes and 3 hits you

leave the mercs and polers for caster killin, that said you do need some S&S tanks to break BT for the heavy hitters, especially against those bloody hibs, but you made your choice and it was a good one

 

[hercules-df]

I reckon you did the right thing m8, I bet the twat who moaned at you had a name starting with k and ending in z, and in one of the "elite" alb guilds.

 

[Kagato.]

Yup, if your defensive, protect the clerics and casters (personally I value the clerics above the other casters), and slam away, if your poler or a merc, go kill the enemy healers and casters.

Really its not so much tactics as pure common sense.

 

[K0nah]

yeh next time tell him to shove his advice where the sun dont shine, good defensive tanks r very thin on the ground, so your grp may have been a bit short of offense melee, so what? doesnt change your role.

tis true to an extent albs r generally poor at going for key classes, tanks&casters like whacking casters cos.. well, its easy (usually) its not so easy when the druids/bards/wardens/mentalists r healing that caster and he has moc/purge up

kill the druids!

kill the bards!

kill the healers!

kill the shamen!

for

teh

win!!1

etc.

 

[Rnp]

uuh wish there were more tanks like u

its a heaven running around for a sorc anyway with a s/s slamming tank

 

[thorwyntf]

From my experience as a Sorc I can say, that I`m able to increase the effectivity of my group by 200% if I`m given a chance to cast not only my initial ae mezz before I`m getting rushed, but 3-4-5-infinite times while I`m protected by a tank. I think the same is true for every other caster. Very few tanks are willing to do this (as it seems) pretty non-heroic job though. Sewen from <TheCorporation> is one of them. And apparently the guy who started this thread is one of them too.
Don´t listen to whatever anyone else says. As long as the rest of the group is taking care of the right targets, you are doing the right thing.

cheers

 

[leorin]

good pure s/s tanks like you who take their task serious is something we really lack. Happy to see some1 who stays back with casters and slam some instead of run off like many tanks do.

 

[wolfen_rb]

hey m8 !

u did teh right thing...im 50 pole, 42 shield, 39 thrust, some parry...and i always try to protect a caster / healer in grp. my fights go like this : slam it, switch pole, go behind it, phalanx + defenders aegis. if more inc for my caster, stick w shield, slam away, and get a damage dealer ASSIST u, so ur slam is much more effective. i rather go offense and pole out for teh kill, but some1 has to care about the cloth dudes, so its ur job. and remember, maybe u not the damage dealer, but if u hit w fast weapon the druid, bard, healer, shamans...they interrupted in healin...so its also good option.

Random Grps and assist

and easy way for an insta Assist Macro :

/macro >MacroName< /macro MA /assist %t

( klick teh player u wanna assist, make macro ) Macro that makes Macro..:great:

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by hercules-df
one of the "elite" alb guilds.

Hmmmmm..... did we claim that, or did you?

 

[Powahhh]

right

well i am a s/s arms myself and know how shit is to ppls to understand sometimes what you do...sad but truth
when i was still playing emain and grps i find myself in the center of teh flame for not protecting tha casters and sometimes i find myself flamed cause i stay defensive and didn't charge in...
as a s/s ARMS (not PALA) you have 2 rolls....even you go defencive and protect or go offencive and kill support classes....we are not palas that hit for 100dmg to casters....you can take a caster pretty easy if someone else in your grp takes care of the healers.....
generally the protect thing goes on palas....they can have more life than us,they got endu regen (endless slams) they use large shields (we use small to keep low the endu cost from slam)
the sad thing is that the palas charge and they wait some1 else to prot the caster uke:
the 90% of the palas knows shit about rvr knows shit about protecting and some ppls do no even BOTHER to use guard on sorc/cleric/wizzyz i even put guard on a support class with my small shield they don't
anyway
you act correctly
you were the only slammer in there and you choose to play defensive......
btw do not listen to the morons

ps. let palas do the killin thing they hit harder than arms hoho uke:

 

[Tilda]

Originally posted by kirennia
much like an incident not so long ago from again, some1 who will remain nameless. We were 1fg, hibs were 2fg and we got wiped out (suprisingly). Then in the cg the person in question says 'lol, what happened, you do know that healers should be your first target...'

This person was at amg and the battle happened at hmg. They then said 'whats wrong with you? were the flashy armours of the tanks too dazzling for you?' or summit to that effect.

For some1 who was not present, was not involved in the fight and had no1 relaying info, thas pretty obnoxious.

Bit off topic but back to your comment, s/s tanks are there for defence. Tho not as good as pallies, they still primarily are there for defence. Have been in many grps with ya and other s/s tanks though their usefulness isn't in question here, getting a guard does generally help quite a lot. You did right, if you were an offensive armsman then you would be 2handed/pole user

i think that was said in jest though.

 

[Flimgoblin]

aww name and shame we wanna laugh at the backseat general

 

[Javai]

Totally the right thing to do (and I play both a s+s tank and a sorc). Personally I'd like to more of the army of infiltrators joining groups and popping up to PA enemy healers whilst the Mercs and Scouts finish the job.

 

[Apathy]

Cupcake, of course you did the right thing and you are well aware of it. The guy just got under your skin - don't let that happen.

The problem with a lot of S+S "defensive" tanks is that they think their shield is for defending THEMSELVES with, whilst they run around whacking people for 150 regardless of how CCd their F8'd-and-stuck-to target is. :/

Arms - "Haha! I blocked your attack, Firbolg! CLERIC HEAL PLS!!!!"

Cleric - "I died two minutes ago."

Arms - "WTF!!!!"

Don't worry about it and just ignore it.

a.
*

 

[bracken_woodman]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
aww name and shame we wanna laugh at the backseat general

Na, no point in that Hopefully the guy will read the thread and see that on this occasion he called it wrong, and that thinking before he sends someone obnoxious messages is a wiser move.

All too often people see an armsman in a battle and think "dumb tank, why isnt he attacking the casters" without realising that defensive armsmen often have a specific role in their group and can't be blamed everytime albs lose a fight.

As for the guild that he belonged to, I've always found them pleasant people and would in no way think bad of them over one incident.

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

I hope you told that guy to f**k off.

If your casters hadn't been protected then you would probably have all died a lot quicker.

 

[Aule Valar]

casters do far more damage than a s/s tank, and have more naughty tricks to stop healers from healing, so its somewhat better to keep them alive than go madly charging in

also with hibs most of the time their healers are defended by pbaoe so theres not much point in a lone tank trying it

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by bracken_woodman
As for the guild that he belonged to, I've always found them pleasant people and would in no way think bad of them over one incident.

noo...

yer supposed to post


FFS!!!!111 <whatever his name was> J00 lame goat-sucking <whatever his guild is> you're shite and yer guild's shite too!

oh well we'll get you educated someday

 

[old.LandShark]

There is no one 'right' tactic. It's purely situational. This is what we have hybrid specs for.


edit: also the ability to move, and, controversially, the ability to change targets mid-fight

 

[StormriderX]

With S/S damage you not likely to kill anything soon so you might as well stay defensive

 

[Aule Valar]

shoo storm, its not as if bms can kill anything
was quite amusing yesterday when we both sat there twating each other to little effect with heals ip etc

 

[bracken_woodman]

Originally posted by old.LandShark
There is no one 'right' tactic. It's purely situational. This is what we have hybrid specs for.


edit: also the ability to move, and, controversially, the ability to change targets mid-fight

Totally agree with that - and I will often switch tactics, targets and who Im guarding/intercepting on mid-fight as needed. However, Im not a hybrid spec and in this particular fight the guy who pmd me (and I think you know full well who it is) was just plain wrong.

No need for the sarcasm.

 

[old.shotgunstow]

Originally posted by samildanachh
i think u did right, u want the high dmg dealers taking our their casters inf,ur own casters etc. u cant leave ur casters defenceless or theyll just get melee'd to death.

Agreed, you did the right thing mate

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

Originally posted by bracken_woodman
No need for the sarcasm.

That is like asking a bird not to fly.

 

[Jiggs]

limited tactical perception

 

[wildpt]

Having received a rather obnoxious /send tonight (from an individual who shall remain nameless) ....

haha some noob trying to teach bracken, many new ppl these days at emain that think they know more of rvr then ppl who plays for more then 1 year or so, oh well...

Only one noob can teach us something...Fonus is teh name!