qoran burning the sequel

[Job]

ok so some welsh bnp canditate burnt a copy in his garage and showed his mates and they arrested him, now its a criminal offence?

 

[Ctuchik]

ok so some welsh bnp canditate burnt a copy in his garage and showed his mates and they arrested him, now its a criminal offence?

I hope so.

We don't need more retards to rile up the extremists then we already have, and that's the only reason they burn it.

 

[Ch3tan]

ok so some welsh bnp canditate burnt a copy in his garage and showed his mates and they arrested him, now its a criminal offence?

Yes, some laws passsed last year (or the year before possibly), protecting religions from persecution or something along those lines.

Also, the burning of any book is fucking stupid.

 

[Job]

yes that's why he did it, but a criminal offence? hardly comes under inciting violence
thank god we can still burn every other religous text in the world without a visit from the police.

 

[Embattle]

It is incitement.

 

[rynnor]

Also, the burning of any book is fucking stupid.

Unless its a crap book surely? Blairs memoirs would be high up my list.

I think we are on dodgy ground banning the burning of a religious book - I can see why it might be done but it smacks of surrendering freedom of speech to appease loonies to me.

 

[Ch3tan]

If you allow it you are just appeasing loonies too.

 

[rynnor]

If you allow it you are just appeasing loonies too.

It wont work though - the far right will merely use the fact that its a crime to rabble raise - there's no practical way to prevent the two extremes from riling each other up.

 

[Ctuchik]

yes that's why he did it, but a criminal offence? hardly comes under inciting violence

Ofcourse it is, he's burning that book in an attempt to get the extremists riled up so they do something stupid, and then he can justify what he did with some twisted logic.

thank god we can still burn every other religous text in the world without a visit from the police.

Maybe in the UK, but iirc in most civilized countries, burning of ANY religious texts (even satanic ones i believe) are illegal.

I think it's even illegal in the islamic countries. I could be wrong there.

 

[Job]

ok you can't burn the book and you can't draw mohammed, based entirely on the not very disguised threat of violent response, so what next?
the wholsale appeasment of a cult who threaten violence right up to mass genocide
isn't a good long term strategy.

 

[rynnor]

The only people who can stop these stunts are the muslims by ignoring them - every reaction encourages further stunts.

 

[rynnor]

Bah - too late to edit but how exactly do you get charged under a public order act for an action you do in private?

 

[kiliarien]

I hope so.

We don't need more retards to rile up the extremists then we already have, and that's the only reason they burn it.

Oh ok, we'll just be quiet and let the extremists threaten us into submission.

It is incitement.

Explain why under the context of this particular action.

If you allow it you are just appeasing loonies too.

Loonies can do what they want behind closed doors, as long as it isn't illegal. In this case there was no incitement because it was not a public act.

Bah - too late to edit but how exactly do you get charged under a public order act for an action you do in private?

As above. Totally ridiculous. Purely a political manoeuvre to discredit a candidate (as if the BNP needed discredited tbh, bunch of goons.)

What he did was wrong imo, but it's bullshit to charge for it. As job alluded to, if a copy of the Torah was burnt there wouldn't be this type of reaction.

 

[Punishment]

Ahhhhhhh who aggroed davey, detaunt DETAUNT <Kites> ..........

 

[Turamber]

yes that's why he did it, but a criminal offence? hardly comes under inciting violence
thank god we can still burn every other religous text in the world without a visit from the police.

A number of acts were passed in the last few years with the aim of stopping hate crimes against religion/religious groups so yes, it is very much illegal.

I don't think any book should be burned personally, even Mr Dawkin's random scribbles.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ahhhhhhh who aggroed davey, detaunt DETAUNT <Kites> ..........

Need level 30 for detaunt, limit your DPS damnit!

On the subject;

Bit silly of them wasn't it.

 

[Job]

Looks like it was leaked onto Youtube, but at no point does he call for violence or directly insult any group (heaven forbid ).
Every online paper that covers it has disabled their comments, so now you get arrested for burning a book and no one is allowed to comment either.
There must someone turning in their grave somewhere.

Thankgod we can still bomb and maim them by accident without even having to apologise,.

 

[tierk]

Just waiting to see the reaction once word gets out and then the customary "oh those savages posts" inc.

 

[Wij]

I can't see how there can be a law against this. I can burn my own property if I want as long as I do it safely. I can also insult anyone or anything I want as long as it isn't libelous. That is the mark of a civilised society. Doesn't make me a particularly civilised person if I choose to exercise those rights but noone's beliefs should hold special place under the law.

Mohammed sucks cocks etc...

 

[Mabs]

you can burn it if you want, showing other people your doing it/ YouTubeing it = incitement

they should all be shot out of hand anyway, saying "im a BNP member" is about the same as "i have no sensible input to anything anymore, and just want to get my ugly retarded face into papers/on TV before i die"

 

[Wij]

There's no such law as incitement:

Serious Crime Act 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as I can see this is not 'encouraging' anyone to commit a crime. Doing something which you are aware might cause others to commit an offense is not the same thing as encouraging it. Hate preachers are 'encouraging' offences. The BNP are merely goading for it, which isn't the same thing as far as I can tell.

 

[rynnor]

I dont like this policy of appeasement and seperate laws for different folks - the law has never been enforced for the destruction of a bible but the destruction of a koran gets condemned as outrageous out of fear.

Its like we have the chamberlain government back in...

 

[Chronictank]

I can't see how there can be a law against this. I can burn my own property if I want as long as I do it safely. I can also insult anyone or anything I want as long as it isn't libelous. That is the mark of a civilised society.

If that's your definition clearly you don't live in a civilized society considering our foreign policy, terrorism laws, anti-piracy laws and regulations just to name a few

I dont like this policy of appeasement and seperate laws for different folks - the law has never been enforced for the destruction of a bible but the destruction of a koran gets condemned as outrageous out of fear.

It covers all religious texts , making things up won't change that

 

[DaGaffer]

There's no such law as incitement:

Serious Crime Act 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as I can see this is not 'encouraging' anyone to commit a crime. Doing something which you are aware might cause others to commit an offense is not the same thing as encouraging it. Hate preachers are 'encouraging' offences. The BNP are merely goading for it, which isn't the same thing as far as I can tell.

Wrong law: Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its still horribly worded, but I think in this case intent could be proved.

 

[Wij]

"intention of stirring up hatred"

Burning a book you don't like doesn't show the above as far as I can see. It's expressing your distaste for the religion. Quite a different thing.




Jesus still wets the bed etc...

 

[Chronictank]

by definition that is exactly what he wanted to do..
he could have just as easily disposed of it and not told all his mates, you tube, the papers etc..

 

[rynnor]

Case dropped on the Public Order offence but they will hunt around for something to charge him with:

BBC News - BNP 'Koran burn' candidate Sion Owens case withdrawn

 

[cHodAX]

Ofcourse it is, he's burning that book in an attempt to get the extremists riled up so they do something stupid, and then he can justify what he did with some twisted logic.


Maybe in the UK, but iirc in most civilized countries, burning of ANY religious texts (even satanic ones i believe) are illegal.

I think it's even illegal in the islamic countries. I could be wrong there.

Never stopped the bible being burnt in the middle east.

 

[DaGaffer]

"intention of stirring up hatred"

Burning a book you don't like doesn't show the above as far as I can see. It's expressing your distaste for the religion. Quite a different thing.

Jesus still wets the bed etc...

No its not and you know it. It should be, but living in the real world, especially in the light of recent events, burning a Koran only really has one message, especially when the person doing the burning is a BNP member. Any lawyer with an iota of skill could make that charge stick.

NB. This isn't to say I condone this stupid law; I don't believe religion should have any special protection even if anti-religious sentiment does have public order/terrorism implications these days.

 

[Fafnir]

Never stopped the bible being burnt in the middle east.

Perhaps because christian items are illegal in some middle eastern countries.