PvE Raid cooperation

[old.Whoodoo]

After the last few days of flame baiting and ranting on about whos who in the PvE world, lets come to a half decent agreement to be gentlemanly about this.

With dwindling numbers attending ML and Arti raids, we need to be a little more cautious about raids overlapping, so lets have some decent "unspoken" rules to try and get on as a realm. Heres my ideas for postings.

Realm PvE raids:

• No two raids by any leader that are realm based should be posted on the same day and time.
• Should a raid be on the same day, try and guess the raid length and give it a 30 minute window to finish, taking into account lottos and LD time.
• If two raids conflict, and the two hosts cannot figure a way to combine their efforts in one bigger raid, the later poster must forfeit and reschedule for another time.
• If a weekly raid is planned, this must be made clear in the posts (liek Dragon Raids, regular ML raids) with a rough time for the raid completion.
• Make it clear if you are claiming prizes, and even what prize (eg RotH), this can cause debate in the raid too.

Full Group only Raids;

• Posts must give plenty of notice of the raids, and must take into consideration Realm PvE raids first, as numbers on those make them go more smoothly.
• If possible, runs like CO5 and ML5/7 group steps can take 2-3 FG to make them go faster, try and plan for more than just 1fg.
• Make it clear what classes you need, both for your benefit and that of the players registering, and do try and leave spots for non group friendly toons like SBs and BDs.

Its a start, comments are welcome, but lets try and work together on these raids rather than banging our heads together, lets work as a realm.

 

[Kvadi]

This seems a reasonable point to start from in my opinion.

 

[vavires]

Won't work,

we tried it for years,
Even i make mistakes and have to admit when i posted the artieraid i didnt saw Trolls raid, but when it was posted and already announced on /as for the hole evening i wasnt planning to say no to it. Thats the same with most ppl.

For example, u cant be deleting or unsticking posts to boycot ppls raids.
Cause otherwise u can start with the trollheim(thursday) and the ml4.2 raid(sunday). Both comming in conflict with the CO5 raid and the ML1->3 Raid.
Geuss thats life, i used to debate here and there about Xraiding , but last months ppl just dont seem to care. They raid what and when they want... and thats just the way it is. Me personally wil try to avoid clashing with other raids as possible.

 

[Kvadi]

Won't work,

If you say so then I guess it must be so...

Even i make mistakes

Never.

 

[Bluesky]

In theory Whoodoo its great and something I have tried to encourage for years but sometimes it simply doesnt work due to people only being able to host raids on certain days.

If people aim to follow this then at least its a move in a more respectful and better direction for the realm as a whole imo.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

In theory Whoodoo its great and something I have tried to encourage for years but sometimes it simply doesnt work due to people only being able to host raids on certain days.

If people aim to follow this then at least its a move in a more respectful and better direction for the realm as a whole imo.

Thats what Im hoping will happen.

Vav, dont be so negative m8, yes you are a great leader of raids, but soemtimes its good to step aside and let others have their day at it. You of all people should know that raids are far easier with huge numbers, the kill is much faster and then move on.

I sticky all raids, as do all the mods here regardless of whos what and where. As a rule of thumb, we only stick realm raids, where more than 1fg are taken or its not a fully fixed setup(DRs the exception). CO5 for example is a group raid, and only 8 people will attend, or in the present case 16, which doesnt mean a threat to any other raid.

In my opinion, the 4.2 raid is a waste of time, and should be part of the whole ML4 run, as it means many will be repeating them on the next full raid, and many wont join until that step is over, spoiling yet another raid. Catch 22 tbh. However it remains a sticky.

I will say I always regard you as having the Sunday 2.30GMT slot, after ML10, and would prefer others not to conflict here, as its a well established time, but thats up to them, and this is what I am trying to sort out, its called comrimise.

 

[Bluesky]

Just a quickie (ooer lol) Whoodoo - Trollum has now said his ml4 is a full raid so I changed the title accordingly.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Just a quickie (ooer lol) Whoodoo - Trollum has now said his ml4 is a full raid so I changed the title accordingly.

Im old bald and slow (oh and fat), so I missed that I stand corrected. Still fitted as an example tho.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Now I see the latest thing thats rearing its ugly head is "Excal twats" again. FFS, we are a realm, theres no them and us, its for everyone, damn the mentality of my own realm pisses me off sometimes and makes me think its easy to spot the only child in the family.

 

[charmangle]

After the last few days of flame baiting and ranting on about whos who in the PvE world, lets come to a half decent agreement to be gentlemanly about this.

A nice rule of thumb, and a good goal to aim for!

Ofc, its theres gonna be some unavoidable clashes, but if atleast all try to do follow those guidlines lifes gonna be alot easier for all!

/Charmangle

 

[Nate]

imagine if this "cross raiding" someones come up with went to rvr ;o z0mg!


g1: "Meight, I posted on freddy's i'd have a fg in hadrians at this time"
g2: "Well meight, if you see I posted 2mins before you did..I claim this zone!!"

 

[old.Whoodoo]

imagine if this "cross raiding" someones come up with went to rvr ;o z0mg!


g1: "Meight, I posted on freddy's i'd have a fg in hadrians at this time"
g2: "Well meight, if you see I posted 2mins before you did..I claim this zone!!"

Im talking to the raid leaders, what the followers do is something thats up to them alone.

 

[mercury]

Cross Raids

We all know from the posts here why cross-raids are a Bad Thing. Resources on the cluster are stretched enough without diluting the population even further by deliberately planning simultaneous raids.
I've said elsewhere that this is plain bad manners imo. Riding rough-shod over other people is selfish and Not On. I always assume that the muppets doing this read the other threads detailing raids - but I could be wrong here.

This has now happened to the 7pm Thursday night slot 3 times out of 4. It doesn't seem to make much of a dent in attendance at my C05, except that on at least one occasion, I'd like to have attended the alternative. I chose Thursday deliberately as nothing was going down then - that is until I tried to make a regular C05. So this is not a 'whine' as some would call it - more an appeal for a bit of maturity and common courtesy, and - dare I say it - common sense.

I have a suggestion which might work.

One of the FH Mods could post and maintain a monthly Calendar, updated daily, which raid leaders could consult and book a date and time via a FH pm.

Cross-raids in the form of double-bookings would not be accepted. Ofc that won't stop them, but it would stop their details being publicised.That way we could all see instantly what was happening when and plan accordingly. For example, most of us know and respect :

Wed : 7pm Bluesky's Dragon Slapping
Sun : 1pm Belxavier's ML10 Draco Thrash
Sun : 2.30pm Vavikyr's ML marathons
etc.
(uk times)

I should dearly love Thur : 7pm Merc's C05
to be added to that list. Can't see it happening tho'....

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Merged your post into this thread, as you can see Ive already suggested some cooperation on this, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Wed : 7pm Bluesky's Dragon Slapping
Sun : 1pm Belxavier's ML10 Draco Thrash
Sun : 2.30pm Vavikyr's ML marathons
etc.
(uk times)

I should dearly love Thur : 7pm Merc's C05
to be added to that list. Can't see it happening tho'....

I would add your CO5 raid to the list, but at the same time its not really designed for the realm, but 16 few who attend. However the same could be said for the dragon raid, but as its well established, it earns the right IMO.

Keep posting them up, and use the format I suggest (something else no one bothers with) in the forum guidelines section. The more you run succesfully, the more likely it will stay as a sticky.

 

[Aberrathien]

So basically what ur saying about FG raids like the DS raids im currently running should have a low priority?
Or I have to give room for bigger raids as raid leader of the smaller raids?
Like if i got my grp set and rdy to go and theres a call for ppl from an artifact bg, that they dont have the ppl to do the encounters, then i should say to my grp: "well, the artifact bg is having troubles and we have to go help them", then i use my evening doing that instead of the raid I have planned???

 

[old.Whoodoo]

So basically what ur saying about FG raids like the DS raids im currently running should have a low priority?
Or I have to give room for bigger raids as raid leader of the smaller raids?
Like if i got my grp set and rdy to go and theres a call for ppl from an artifact bg, that they dont have the ppl to do the encounters, then i should say to my grp: "well, the artifact bg is having troubles and we have to go help them", then i use my evening doing that instead of the raid I have planned???

Not meaningto be harsh, but in a way yes. If a raid benefits the realm, by all means post up a group raid, but as many have seen before (including me), they plan group raids expecting 8 people to show, only to get a PM saying "sorry, joining BG raid".

FG raids only benefit 8 people, BG raids have benefitted up to 200 people, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (sorry spock).

At least this is how I would see it, by no means am I saying this is how its gotta be, no way, but I am trying to get peoples input into something we can all agree on for all raids, I have laid down the first ideas, and so far most think its a good idea, and most of the normal raid leaders think its shit as it spoils "their" raid timing, which is a little defeatist tbh.

So, no more whining, positive input it whats needed here.

 

[Aberrathien]

FG raids only benefit 8 people, BG raids have benefitted up to 200 people, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

I have laid down the first ideas, and so far most think its a good idea, and most of the normal raid leaders think its shit as it spoils "their" raid timing, which is a little defeatist tbh.

So, no more whining, positive input it whats needed here.

So what u are saying is that im not a normal raid leader and a whiner? Pretty constructive and positive input... :touch:

So when it comes down to what i would like to do with the play time I have payed for i have to think about what every other subscriber on mid pryd/excal wants and/or need? So ALL I can do is what 200 ppl will benefit of?
Im cool with the whole help ur realm idea, but not on the expense of my personal freedom to choose what raids I want to do.

My play time is restricted, I have a job and a family and cant sit at my computer the whole day, so when i post a raid thread its bcos its something I enjoy doing, I dont want my gametime to feel like work as well bcos i HAVE to do something 200 ppl will benefit of.

And as far as it comes to templating or helping ppl acquire what is needed for their template, then in my opinion it also helps the realm as we get better base ground for doing rvr...

I post my raids well in advance, and have chosen tuesday as my favorite day to do it bcos of my RL. have done this for the past ½ year, so when it comeas to be an established raid leader just like vav and bluesky i honestly mean im in that category, so dont try to put me somewhere else.

And u honestly cant expect ppl just to do something out of duty only, one has to have the heart in it as well...

But if this will be the new line decided upon by all in here I will stop doing raids. Bcos i think its wrong to bully other raid-leader just bcos u have some arbitrary idea about what u think that benefits all ppl and what ppl should do with the gametime they pay good money for.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

So what u are saying is that im not a normal raid leader and a whiner? Pretty constructive and positive input... :touch:

Yup, read the rest of your post here and maybe youll see it.

So when it comes down to what i would like to do with the play time I have payed for i have to think about what every other subscriber on mid pryd/excal wants and/or need? So ALL I can do is what 200 ppl will benefit of?
Im cool with the whole help ur realm idea, but not on the expense of my personal freedom to choose what raids I want to do.

No one is forcing you to do anything, you are taking it all out of context, or maybe not, theres a lot of "I" in there, in a game which is devoted to "Massive Multiplayer"s, so yes and no, again you are not being constructive in trying to solve the issue of raid confliction, I see nothing here to help at all, just more whine.

My play time is restricted, I have a job and a family and cant sit at my computer the whole day, so when i post a raid thread its bcos its something I enjoy doing, I dont want my gametime to feel like work as well bcos i HAVE to do something 200 ppl will benefit of.

The same goes for me, but at the same time, this isnt just about you; Vav, Bluesky and co all have the same, but dedicate their time into things for everyone.

And as far as it comes to templating or helping ppl acquire what is needed for their template, then in my opinion it also helps the realm as we get better base ground for doing rvr...

No arguement there, but if theres a group raid, and a BG raid at the same time posted, then my feeling is most will attend the BG raid.

I post my raids well in advance, and have chosen tuesday as my favorite day to do it bcos of my RL. have done this for the past ½ year, so when it comeas to be an established raid leader just like vav and bluesky i honestly mean im in that category, so dont try to put me somewhere else.

Fair comment, I will class you that way, but again, the others to raids for the whole realm, not just a merry few, surely you can see the difference?

And u honestly cant expect ppl just to do something out of duty only, one has to have the heart in it as well...

But if this will be the new line decided upon by all in here I will stop doing raids. Bcos i think its wrong to bully other raid-leader just bcos u have some arbitrary idea about what u think that benefits all ppl and what ppl should do with the gametime they pay good money for.

The idea I had was for people including you to put together a deal that suits everyone, so far all you have done is whinge, and added nothing positive at all to the debate. Now try reversing your thinking, looking at my suggested ideas and coming up with something that will hopefully resove this issue.

Pfff, its like they say "you cant please all the people, all the time".

 

[Golena]

While it's probably a good idea not to double post raids, there's also no reason why just because someone is doing an ML4 raid people shouldn't be able to organise alternative events.

Ok the server might not be able to handle 3 huge BG raids at once, but if losing 8 people to a fg raid is going to cause yours to fail then there really wasn't enough demand for the BG raid in the first place..

What's needed is some common sense as to if your going to be organising a raid that's going to remove large numbers of people from an already planned raid.

 

[mercury]

small raids

...but 16 few who attend....

Aye but tha'ts per raid. Give it a few weeks and the number soon adds up. After all, Blues DR on a Wed is 'only' 23....

 

[Aberrathien]

Aye but tha'ts per raid. Give it a few weeks and the number soon adds up. After all, Blues DR on a Wed is 'only' 23....

Yeah, how do u figure what´s the merry few and as to what benifits the whole realm? 8/16/23? More than 25? Or what other?

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Yeah, how do u figure what´s the merry few and as to what benifits the whole realm? 8/16/23? More than 25? Or what other?

I dont have the answers, like I said, instead of more complaints, how about some positive input, what I have said here is purely my own opinion, and thats all, I am asking for others to give a frikken hand to resolve this, so far I have got squat.

Feck it, leave it as it is eh, you lot can fight it out amongst yaselves, cant say I didnt try and get a little decorum going here.

 

[Buliwyf]

..and do try and leave spots for non group friendly toons like SBs and BDs.

This will like never ever happen. 99% is way to elite for that.

 

[atos]

Actually my 4.2 raid was put where it was just as an attempt to lower the amount of people atteneding to ml1-3. Just because I dislike your way of running things Vav.

Since it was done to my raid and the amount of people showing up was less than 20% of what I expected.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

This will like never ever happen. 99% is way to elite for that.

Every group raid I lead has 2 spots for randoms, and I tend to choose those who struggle to get normal spots like SBs especially, who can tank very well.

 

[Aberrathien]

I dont have the answers, like I said, instead of more complaints, how about some positive input, what I have said here is purely my own opinion, and thats all, I am asking for others to give a frikken hand to resolve this, so far I have got squat.

Feck it, leave it as it is eh, you lot can fight it out amongst yaselves, cant say I didnt try and get a little decorum going here.

Well all im trying to say is that u impose urself and the idea that all ppl should consider that their raids have to benefit the whole realm bfore posting a raid. That way u impose urself on ppls personal freedom to choose what raids they can post in here. And that way u will only get negative response im afraid.

Ur idea is good enough, but what u do is smack ppl like me on the head, us raidleaders who doesnt have the knowledge or passion to run omfg big bg raids to atlantis or the like. And excuse me for reacting badly to that.

Its a good idea not to post raids that will draw a lot of ppl away for a raid that will benefit the whole realm, but if a bg is struggling to do something a single full group can help them achieve, then imo the interest for that bg was smaller than the raid the full group is doing. And therefore I may be egotistical, but then I cant see why the full group should abandon what they were doing to help the BG.

All in all, a good attempt u made, but u fail to take the littl raidleaders into onsideration. Bcos the need of many argument can be bullying to them.

 

[vavires]

Actually my 4.2 raid was put where it was just as an attempt to lower the amount of people atteneding to ml1-3. Just because I dislike your way of running things Vav.

Since it was done to my raid and the amount of people showing up was less than 20% of what I expected.

Revenge? oO
Like i said i didnt mind it, i know what i can and can not expect when runing raids. Any way you looked at it, ure raid would have failed, u cant expect ppl to show up "only" for 4.2, the biggest and longest step to do unless u got a zerg of 100.

To the rest of you here, i know ya all, but there is nothing u can do about this problem, aber and merc, i know both of ure raids might have failed before cause of other raids, i know its no fun when that happens.3 But u got to understand in the end of the day there is nothing that can be done about it. I disagree with you tho whoodoo, BG>1,2flg group raids is not the way ppl think. Its all about th eimportance of the raid being done. If i wanted to go to a CO5, DR raid i would go.

Just, i dont know, try to pick an empty slot somewhere and hope for the best thats all i can say.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Ur idea is good enough, but what u do is smack ppl like me on the head, us raidleaders who doesnt have the knowledge or passion to run omfg big bg raids to atlantis or the like. And excuse me for reacting badly to that.

All in all, a good attempt u made, but u fail to take the littl raidleaders into onsideration. Bcos the need of many argument can be bullying to them.

Now thats feedback!

Sorry if the things I say here seems over zelous, but without half decent feedback like this, it doesnt go anywhere. TBH I was hoping someone would see sense and say something like "Why dont we call tuesdays Grp raid only night, leaving the other 6 days for the mighty BGers" or something along those lines. I wasnt trying to lay down laws governing raids at all, I was trying to get all the leaders to come up with a comprimise.

I disagree with you tho whoodoo, BG>1,2flg group raids is not the way ppl think. Its all about th eimportance of the raid being done. If i wanted to go to a CO5, DR raid i would go.

Think of it like this, an ML9 BG raid happens what...every 6-7 weeks, then say you cant attend, so you got another 6-7 weeks, but also you need ML8 group steps..which raid on the same day are you going to attend? The thing is grp raids can be done anytime but only by a limited amount of people, both are just as important, but as one comes once in a blue moon, its better to attend the BG raids, at least thats my thinking. How individuals want to raid is their choice, and Im not asking for that to change, heck no. Its the leaders I appeal to!

OK, with people now starting to think outside their box, and someone suggesting a calendar, what about this (remember, this is a suggestion!):

Mondays, Tuesdays: Group raids only
Wednesdays: DRs(Blue)
Thursdays: Group and BG raids pick n mix
Saturdays: AM:Grp only PM: Grp and BG Eve: BG only
Sundays: AM group only PMR(?):ML(vav) Eve:Grp+BG

Something to think about anyway.

 

[Aberrathien]

Now thats feedback!

Mondays, Tuesdays: Group raids only
Wednesdays: DRs(Blue)
Thursdays: Group and BG raids pick n mix
Saturdays: AM:Grp only PM: Grp and BG Eve: BG only
Sundays: AM group only PMR(?):ML(vav) Eve:Grp+BG

Something to think about anyway.

Well I can support that idea with no problems.

Spur of the moment raids shouldnt be disallowed tho, ppl should just bear this calender in mind when doing it, and think rationally s to what can be expected to give a turnout that wont affect other ppls preposted and planned raids.

My 2 cents anyway...