Prydwen, Thidranki Raid, Last Night and other questions.

[Vieug PrydMid]

Hahhaa haa!!

Yes indeed, we Midgard lvl 20-24s attempted to take down the Albion Thidranki keep last night.

We had rams and about 20 folks turned up.

First time around we killed every Albion and Hib that came too close. We got the Ram setup, eventually it was figured out how to use it.

Then for some bizarre reason everyone forgot that there was more to the keep then simply standing next to the gate. 2 albion mages started to drop aoe dots on us and within moments everyone was dead. Of about 19 six were killed outright, all 4 healers were down to zero power, about 8 folks were sitting near mid bridge regenerating and generally shouting alot and running to gates getting filled with arrows dying and so on...

All that was needed was for a few folks to hang back and kill any bowmen or mages who appeared above the gates.

Ok, I know lvl 20-24 is still n00b1e playing, most of the players use the 'its just a game' agrument to attempt to escape their complete inability to play the game properly. But is it always like this? Will we have to build up GUILD only raids, so that will be be able to take keeps fairly quickly? Seems to me that this is the only route forward, just askin folks to turn up and trying to trust them seems a tad daft. Which is a real shame.

The really annoying thing about last night, we actually managed to wipe the keep and all of the occupants 2 hours earlier, we were keeping them down to nil life for about 30 minutes, but...we had no rams. We'd assumed that with 3 times as many people it would be easyer...


...............

Is it like this at lvl 50? From what i've seen theres just as many n00b1e players at lvl 50 as there are at lvl 20. It could simply be the general attitude of the players....

Two things i do hate, the general attitude "It is just a game"
and "I dont know you therefore i wont come and help you"

The second usually comes from the gobs of northern europeans. Whats knowing someone got to do with helping them?


Lastly is it possible to use seige engines to your advantage on keeps? Seige Rams dont seem to do much damage per hit, so i cannot understand the idea behind building the other 2 rams, maybe they are just for show, would building a catapult be more usefull then building a ram?

Oh and another thing...do all npc bowmen have the ability to shoot you when a/ the cannot possibly have line of sight to you and be when you are well over 2500 meters away...? Ie at the bridge? Seems to be the message most scouts, hunters etc get that a mob has gone out of range does not affect npc bowmen.

Damn i'm good at writting books......

Before i forget. THANKYOU to everyone who turned up at Thidranki last night. For trying at least. Especially thankyou to all the Healers that left xp time to help me. Its no joke trying to heal 15 moaning players! And trying to stun or mezz everything else...

Vieug TheAccidentalWarrior of the guild 'Vikingar'

 

[Brannor McThife]

Bowman/Archer ranges

Originally posted by Vieug PrydMid
Oh and another thing...do all npc bowmen have the ability to shoot you when a/ the cannot possibly have line of sight to you and be when you are well over 2500 meters away...? Ie at the bridge? Seems to be the message most scouts, hunters etc get that a mob has gone out of range does not affect npc bowmen.

Well, no...what's actually happening is that they shoot at you while you're still in range, it's just that the arrow "chases" you as to run away. So it may appear that they've shot beyond standard range. Also remember, that they're elevated, so their range is increased.

-G

 

[ivan_russky]

three things :

1. Dont rely on people you dont know.... that way when expecting the worst, they may only surprise you in a good way.

2. What is daoc but a game.

3. your definition of DaoC if you dont agree with second statement.

 

[Vieug PrydMid]

Its not simply that daoc is 'just' a game. Generally i have no problem with people playing with that attitude, its more that most players these days certainly in the last 2-3 years just dont seem to understand that either you can just mess around playing a game or you canseriously play a game.

What is the point of even trying to play a game if you never expect to go above lvl 20? Why spend hours upon boring hours Healing people to get the xp required to be a good lvl 50 Healer if you plan to just run up and get killed everytime you play?

People pay to play daoc, they pay for the isp, the phone bill the electricty and so on...and when you group with players they come out 'after the fact' with "its just a game" i think what i might start doing is ask people if they play daoc just because its a game and if the do simply ignore them or if they actually want to capture keeps and actually be of use within the game...this isnt a game of half life or unreal capture the flag...in unreal you dont spend hours, days, weeks, months upgrading getting the best armour, weapons for your character simply because its just a game....

or do you? If your house burns down do you say to the fireman "its just a house"

 

[erl]

Originally posted by Vieug PrydMid
in unreal you dont spend hours, days, weeks, months upgrading getting the best armour, weapons for your character simply because its just a game....

No, but if you're dedicated you spend that much time in gaing skill in the game. I see no difference there.

And the thing "I don't know you, therefor won't help you", what's the problem with that? If a person I don't know asks me for some help and I don't feel like helping that person, shouldn't I be able to turn him down then? Specially since the tendency when people I don't know ask for help is that they are very rude, and that don't help them much. I usually have better things to do then helping rude l337 d00dz screaming "gimme some money plz!" "plz plz plz plz!" etc etc

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by Vieug PrydMid
If your house burns down do you say to the fireman "its just a house"

DAoC = Game, non real...bytes of data.
House = Reality, big difference.

Guilds are there for people of like mind to play together. Lots of guilds only group with guildmates for the pure purpose of knowing how they'll respond in situations. Unless you've known somebody for quite a while, don't rely on them at a keep raid. Almost a surefire gaurantee to fail.

-G

 

[Vieug PrydMid]

Well i suppose i could say that being asked for money is totally different to standing and watching some guy get cut down by an enemy npc guard and you are at full health and you do nothing! and then say "But i dont know you why should i help you" be serious. By watching and doing nothing you are making everything harder for yourself. Expecially if you cant solo the guard you just 'helped' to kill your fellow friendly player.

As for the money begging thing...give em 50 silver thats what the germans do which i think is a fantastic move, who says they dont have a sence of humour!!

However i do notice that you are not a Healer or a Shaman. So to me your reply does not actually merit a responce.

In midgard as indeed in all realms Healers, Clerics, (not smiters) Friars, Druids, Wardens and Shamen are they only truely selfless people i have met in daoc, people who generally dont give a toss who you are or where you're from, who will help you regardless.

To do otherwise is not a far cry from rasism and that hasnt got many people very far in real life....it could be your age...it could be my age....but if you dont want to take anything alittle seriously why do it at all?

 

[erl]

However i do notice that you are not a Healer or a Shaman. So to me your reply does not actually merit a responce.

Hehe, did you just say that?
That you just even thought that explains a lot of your reasoning

 

[Vieug PrydMid]

<< isnt sure if that sarcastic remark came over or not..

 

[ivan_russky]

<< Aint too sure it was initially a sarcastic remark


PS: when you call healer/shamen class selfless then you obviously didnt catch the ' I'll ress ya for 20g ' plague eh


PPS: I think DaoC is just a game but the level of dedication can be judged by people who i played with ingame. To state that you hate all the people who think that DaoC is just a game was truly sad. You live in your regular day to day life.... you roleplay in your free time in DaoC not the other way round im affraid.

 

[erl]

Originally posted by ivan_russky
you roleplay in your free time in DaoC not the other way round im affraid.

Damnit, I was indeed thinking I did something wrong, thanks for the explanation

And no, it wasn't a sarcastic remark, by just thinking my opinion is worth less because I'm not playing a support class in a computer game you seem pretty stupid to me.

 

[ivan_russky]

Erm didnt mean you erl

i was talking to initial poster doh, ie i was talking to V

his sarcasm not yours

 

[Hufner]

And he was talking to the original poster as well Ivan

 

[Dwarfdeep]

Well i play a support class, Tharkun Dwarfdeep lvl 42 Healer.
I understand what V is saying, going on a keep raid with someone who won't defend you as a healer because they don't know you would be really annoying.

Luckily i never ran into anyone like that.

However i think that attitude PvE is actually ok, because why should they put their necks on the line for someone they don't know.

But no in Frontier RvR, people don't just leave you to die, they are usually killed b4 they even get to the casters.

 

[ivan_russky]

Good point Hufner hehe, just realised that... must be the heat in my office


Ivan 0, Hufner/erl 1

 

[ImLestat]

I had been there and helped you with my sm, if not the relic raid (the failed one, for many reasons) had been announced. Just standing around and not be ready for guards/albs seems pretty stupid to me. But trust me, many stupid things happen in the "normal RvR" at level 40+ too. Most peoples problem is that they don't listen to the one/ones who are organizing, or has taken charge. If they yell do this or don't do that, be sure there are still some idiots doing exactly the opposite, lessening the chances of the raids success.

About the "I don't know you" thing, I can only speak from my own point of view. I would help any fellow realm mate if not the opposition would be so strong that I would die too, in which case it would be pointless to help.

 

[old.Hendrick]

Lastly is it possible to use seige engines to your advantage on keeps? Seige Rams dont seem to do much damage per hit, so i cannot understand the idea behind building the other 2 rams, maybe they are just for show, would building a catapult be more usefull then building a ram?

A ram made with ironwood does about 750 damage to a door. If your rams did no significant amount of damage then the ram-operator did not know what he was doing. Also sometimes doors are bugged so that you have to click and re-click on them a few times before you know how damaged they really are. Rams are never for show, in fact they are the only way to successfully take down a keep door unless there is absolutely no defense and you have all the time in the world whacking doors with your weapons.

 

[Myshra]

well...

bizarrely enough, i didn't actually know there was a raid and was quite happy with pissing about the hibs when i suddenly was told there was a ram on the door!! anyway, a few tips:

a) you got a ram up, BUT you didn't use it? looked like it was too far away to me, but i couldn't be sure, anyway, if your gonna build a ram, make sure its with someone who has run it before! i practiced with a ram on bledmeer once, and was happy i could operate one fully, so i made the 2 we used to take thid, simple. also, you were pushed back by our 2 DoTing cabbies (pld both of you, you did a very good job) and other classes, especially our new thid recruit, a very suicidal sorcerer!

b) you didn't go back for it. lets presume the ram was built in the correct place, you sat at the bottom of the hill and let us destroy it! a small surge up the hill would have made everyone go back in the keep and left your ram repairable, but alas it didn't happen

c) you didn't protect each other, i know you dont have the stealther numbers we do, but by god you left your runies open to attack, we were simply going down the hill with DoTs on each weapon, slashing one and watching them die to poison, you didn't protect with other stealther classes around your casters, and also, hiding in big trolls doesn't work as your realm title is bigger than a troll, and if you sit, then your infil food

d) you didn't protect yourself from ranged attack, cabbies were allowed to really be effective, as was the sorcerer, this may be due to the fact that your runies were under constant attack, but then it starts a chain etc...

e) dont take this the wrong way, but you had our earlier problem from the look of it, which im proud to say albion overcame. you had your ram team im sure, but it looked to me that there was no single controller of the raid, and you lacked a little teamwork with most things? your healers didn't seem to be defended by other classes when they were ressing up the hill, some people left the main pack and ran back over the bridge on their own! for this sorta raid, you need one person in charge, keep everyone informed with a CG, and make sure if people cant see the cg, commands are relayed over /yell as well, there is nothing worse than not knowing whats happening, im sure you all know this feeling in high level raids.

the same sorta lack of command structure has been seen in your earlier raids if you want my opinion, for example all charging the lord when you didn't clear out the court yard and you then all died to the ice wiz in the lord room, or when you all died in the courtyard itself. you have come close, but you just need a little something to help you take the keep

as for ram times, we used ironwood rams and the doors were down within 5 mins id say. the key is to keep the controller alive at all costs to maximise damage. and per hit, the ram always did 750dmg.

and come on mids, that was about the worst attempt at the ck ive seen in a while give us a challenge, we enjoy them.

 

[Vieug PrydMid]

Originally posted by ivan_russky
[BTo state that you hate all the people who think that DaoC is just a game was truly sad. [/B]

Hate? Ignoring people who dont give a toss if they create problems for other people who are trying to make the most of a game isnt the same as hate.

I do however hate people who mix up words from other peoples posts to make it sound like they've said something completely different!

I didnt set this post here to mince words nor to try to offend anyone so if you wish to turn it into a slagging match because your own point of view is the complete opposite of mine the please say so. And we can step outside...


Edit

Though actually we cant as we are both like it or not on same side...

 

[Vieug PrydMid]

Myshra, thankyou for your remarks. You were correct in all parts, the cabbies and sorc caused some problems that should have been dealt with.

Usually and no offence to Hibs or Albions but if your guy outnumber us by 2 - 1 its still good odds for midgard.

I've only in last few days realised that i actually had a 2300 m spell. So i can now hit your cabs and sorcs at same range. There are other point i would like to make but obviously we cannot talk about our usual strategys used ingame as that would be unfair to the other players.

As for the Ram, well you are probably right i was possibly not close enough, it was our first attempt. As for not going up to get it back, that was mostly my fault, i wanted ordered everyone to hold back near bridge so we could get up some power for healing and make a proper re assualt we still had 2 more rams even after losing the first.

But the 2nd attack fell apart and people were arguing in cg etc.


I do have one question for you tho. Can you expalin to me what happens to Albions and hibs when they are hit by my Wake Ignorant 2300m spell? All i do know is it stops casters/fighters in the current action similar cease aggression...

As for the rest of you, as far as i'm concerned if you dont wish to help other players, then you deserve to be charge 20g a rez. Because i am getting increasingly pissed at people not backing me up after i rez them. I and other healers are not ingame to extend your personal playing time. If you dont want to help others fine, dont ask for a rez!!


WAIT A MINUTE....Suzana...you killed me last night...just after i stunned killed an armsman near river and tried without succes to kill another almost dead armsman due to you backstabbing me for 323 damage and that cleric healing the armsman and me guild mate dying...all that in about 1 second...Yes i remember you.

We got a price on yer head! Actually when i stunned attacked those armsman i was trying to lure another inf who i thought was nearby, but it went pearshaped because my mate the runecaster decided not to use his aoe and melee the armsman...

Still i'm sure you n me we'll meet up. I can usually uncover stealthers within 30 paces, so if you're standing nearby and i start to cast be sure it'll be a stun followed by a mez followed by your death.

Untill then have fun and i hope to see you ingame, btw blowing a kiss whilst stealthed to our runecaster upset him greatly!

 

[Myshra]

i stay stealthed up until the point of perforate artery always btw, if you aoe mezz me i dont unstealth, but if you aoe dmg me, i do big time and i know where my run button is very well!

as for killing you, if i think i can have you, i will do my utmost to PA you anything blue i will go for, especially trolls cause they are big and im small!

btw if the cabbies dont sight debuff you first, your spell loses track of current target on the victim, can be used as an interupt but nothing else in rvr.

 

[Vieug PrydMid]

ur right, to get stealthers i have to see them to hit them. However, if i can 'see' you even tho you are stealthed then i can mez you. And you wont know if i can see you untill after i've mezzed you.

 

[ivan_russky]

Originally posted by Vieug PrydMid

Two things i do hate, the general attitude "It is just a game"
and "I dont know you therefore i wont come and help you"

The second usually comes from the gobs of northern europeans. Whats knowing someone got to do with helping them?

did i read something wrong again or you just forgot that you wrote this.....

PS: besides i aint flaming anyone just stating my point of view hehe.

 

[Vieug PrydMid]

Every player that i've asked for help thats refused on the grounds they didnt know me, were scandanavian or dutch or northern europeans, which surprised me because in other mmorps like everquest or asherons call this attitude was the complete opposite. With exception to ultima online on the euro shard.

I've found that northern europeans basically all euros north of germany, who use servers outwith the specific euro servers usually are happy to help out and are generally nice people and those who only play on euro servers tend to be complete opposite. I dont know why. This does not mean that all other europeans and brits are nice people. LoL THAT would be insulting!!

I think most of the antisocial players tend to come from the UK or the USA, next are the french then the germans then the italians.

I have been playing mmorpgs for a very long time, have a list on icq which is so big i cant remember who most of the people are!

I think whats annoys me is simply that people generally do not want to actually help other people. They prefer to be anti social, yet these same people who say they dont help people because they play alone or because they begged or because they plain didnt want to or they didnt know them....all of these people will send me a /tell Can you rez me please

And to be honest thats taking the ****! I am a social player, of my characters i have both Shaman and Healer Both have trained healing abilities that soley are for the helping of other players.
I will go out of my way ingame to locate and ressurect any player who contacts me, I'll give advice if asked for it. I will join non guild groups for xp or in rvr, all in all a social player me.

I think what i'll do from now on is start to write down the names of all the anit social players i meet then we can compare notes.

As i've said before, Healers and Shamans are not there as a means to further other players' experience making abilities, they are people with equal rights to making xp themselves. Yet i will get people asking for buffs which cost me valuable concentration points and those same people when i ask if they'd like to group up say no thanks mate i like to solo..

Explain this attitude to me... How can someone expect me to waste my conc pts on them if they are not willing to help me lvl up, which is exactly what they want me to do for them??

Or think of it this way.... I'm expected to run out to 1500m to stun a player in rvr. And the rune caster that kills the player and gets the rps gets to hit a stunned target, if the guy moves i stun him again. End result if i am not grouped i dont get the rps. So how can i view this?

Obviously, if people dont play characters like mine and they prefer to solo and prefer only to play snipers or magic users or melee Yet they all expect me to rez them, which can take upto 75% of my power bar on avg, to heal them and give out freebie buffs. In return i get....nothing. In everquest going to rez someone or gating them cost you money, i think players doing the same type of thing in daoc should also charge, damn right. In fact if the avg joe is like those who replied to my post is the avg joe ingame then definately, all non guildies have to pay for rez.

And i'll make it 1g per buff as well. And maybe 10g a stun.


On a side note, I'd like to say that the 2 hours i finally got online to play last night in Thidranki v the Ablions was extremely enjoyable. Probably for the midgards more then the albions as you alot out numbered us 3 to 1 and we still held our ground. More or less.

 

[ivan_russky]

Charging for rezz etc has been discussed already, the main counterargument was that tanks will start charging for taking pain... stealthers for scouting runs....

But i get your point..... although i wouldnt write down the names of people who are genuinely fortunate to have attitude problems... because if everyone were like them, including myself, i would spend far less time trying to get to 50... its a doublesided coin, i have been in groups that wouldnt let the resser leave the group briefly for a ress run, using ' our hunt is soooo slow as it is ' as a supposrting argument.
Personally 5 minutes of chatting is nuff to distinguish wherether the person in question is a decent player < tolerable attitude, decent gaming skills etc >, thats why to get into a guild you need to pass the 'interview'.
Thus i dont expect much from a person i dont know.... doesnt mean i take them for potential idiots, just stay cautious till i get to know them better.

 

[Orin Askhammare]

Well I play a shaman and last night I left the battlegrounds after about an hour of playing there. I wasn't having a lot of fun. There were 2 shamans there, me and Zeh. No healer, so no power regen available. When I go to the battlegrounds I go there to have a good time. I will play my part and will try to use my class to full effect. This means I have to:

• buff people
• heal and cure people
• use my roots, DOTs, bolt to fight players from the other realm
• res people

Now look at that list and guess what I did for pretty much the entire hour. You're right, res the fallen. And fall they did. It was not uncommon to have a queue of about 5 corpses somewhere in the area in front of me continuously.

Sometimes it seems that the arrival of a res capable class is a signal for people to double the risk they take and pretty much get themselves killed, trying to take one of the enemy with them. I obviously don't want to generalise here, because there are also a lot of smart players around. These are the people that you don't have to res again within 3 minutes after putting them on their feet. There is a difference between being unlucky and stupid playing though. Also I noticed a lot of poisoned/bleeding people that came running back, a lot of the time at 10% health. Running, jumping and zig-zaging their way back to the mid bridge. This usually results in me not being able to target them properly, after I find out who the person making the noise is, so they usually keel over right before me. They should make an emote that raises your arm when sitting

I don't mind ressing people, healing people, curing poison at all, that's part of my job. As long as it's 70% that, and 30% using some of that cave magic of mine, I'll still have a good time. But if it is a constant string of sitting on your arse resting, then res/frigg and back on your arse again with the occasional cure poison/frigg in between if you actually have to power to cast it, the whole thing gets old real fast. At first you try to keep your power above half, but then just after a rez two poisoned people come up and you can either let them die or spend the remaining bit of your power to patch them up, which means you're going to have to sit down even longer.

To anyone in the BGs I would like that they keep an eye out. If the corpses are piling up around you it means your ressers can't keep up. Don't take too many risks then and allow the ressers to get everyone back on their feet. I haven't met any rude people yet in the BGs but I ofter got the question "Why didn't you heal me?" when the simple fact is that I couldn't, because 1) my power bar was empty, 2) They were zig-zaging and I couldn't target them, 3) They themselves ran out of my range while I was casting, 4) I was too busy banging my head into my monitor.

Sorry for the rant-ish post, but needed to get some of this off my chest.

 

[Warbadger]

Bloody hell...an intelligent post!

I couldn't agree more...

 

[Vieug PrydMid]

**Charging for rezz etc has been discussed already, the main counterargument was that tanks will start charging for taking pain... stealthers for scouting runs....** - ivan_russky

LoL That I'd like to see!! heheeh heh. Rofl!!! i think the argument is simple, if you want to solo and want to get rezzed and not help your brother healers level up, then you're in serious doodoo...and no m8 i aint saying thats what you've said you'd do...

Orin Askhammare,
I think I arrived moments after you left m8, along with 2 more healers. And yes i know how you feel, I've been to thidranki several times to find i was the ONLY healer there.

**To anyone in the BGs I would like that they keep an eye out. If the corpses are piling up around you it means your ressers can't keep up** - Orin Askhammare

Spot on m8. Thats what i was trying to say in a round about way.

Other then that, thx for the replies folks and hope to see you all ingame. Oh and dont panic, even if extremely annoyed with you i would not not rez you. Unless you were to close to the bad guys.. in which case a specific rescue would have to be setup, like we did last night.

 

[Myshra]

dont heal poisoned people, its much more fun to watch them run back to their group and then die in the middle

 

[Vieug PrydMid]

Suzanne

Hmm, you like the idea of a midgard player thrashing about in agony as your poison works through his body? Sorry i couldnt get online the other night to say hello in the traditional midgard way


Albion players

Am also playing in Excaliber Albion (pilgrim 12 pally atm) can anyone tell me why no-one plays in avalon marsh?

Also can someone explain why albions are even more antisocial then mids?