proposed 50p tax on each landline

[Moriath]

To pay for faster bb in the UK

Fair ?

 

[Raven]

Its the only way to do, BT don't want to pay for it because they aren't allowed to benefit due to retarded monopoly laws. Someone has to pay it.

In fairness its probably yet another Labour pipe dream though.

 

[Edmond]

Not for me, as where i live the lines coming in are made of aluminium, and although i am supposed to have 'up to' 8mb, in reality i get about 1.5mb

BT engineer told me that because they are aluminium and not copper then thats the best i will get. If BT are gonna change the lines coming into my house for 50p, then yes, i'll pay it, but i doubt they will

 

[Tom]

Sorry, but part of living in a rural community is accepting that access to services will generally be poorer than that found in a suburban community.

If you live on a farm and want better broadband, pay for it yourself.

 

[Edmond]

Sorry, but part of living in a rural community is accepting that access to services will generally be poorer than that found in a suburban community.

If you live on a farm and want better broadband, pay for it yourself.

I dont live on a farm or a rural community Tom, i never said i did??

The reason they are aluminiun is because in the early to mid 60's when my estate was built, the price of copper went through the roof, so the G.P.O as it was at the time moved over to the cheaper alternative of ali. It was fine back then, but as with the progression of faster digital networks, the old system cant handle it

 

[Zenith.UK]

Same here, I'm not exactly in an urban area but it's not the middle of the countryside either. I'm in a village about 2-3 miles outside the main town area and I get about 4Mbit. DMT Tool tweaking gets that up to 5.2Mbit but with the need to reset the router every 4-5 days.
My exchange is also Wholesale Market 1 meaning BT is the ONLY BB provider and no LLU presence. There is also no cable provision in my area at all.

The annoying thing is that I'm literally 100m from the village's main BT cabinet, so if BT ever pulled out their finger, I'd be getting the maximum speed through FTTC.

To answer the original question, yes it is fair.

 

[Tom]

I dont live on a farm or a rural community Tom, i never said i did??

Neither did I.

 

[DaGaffer]

Don't have a problem with it in principle - I don't buy Tom's "tough shit" argument. I do wonder why it has be done with fibre though; 3G and 4G would deal with the problem just as effectively and probably for a lot less. Its the solution they've gone for in other countries (here in Ireland for one).

 

[Trem]

But is it a one off 50p tax for everyone or is it a monthly thing?

They should just use the BBC fee for this rather than channel (fucking big brother) 4.

 

[Tom]

Don't have a problem with it in principle - I don't buy Tom's "tough shit" argument. I do wonder why it has be done with fibre though; 3G and 4G would deal with the problem just as effectively and probably for a lot less. Its the solution they've gone for in other countries (here in Ireland for one).

Ok, I'm going to build a house 10 miles from the nearest town, and demand that the local council install services to it. Hundreds of thousands of pounds, paid for by the taxpayer, just so I can live in the middle of nowhere.

Fair?

There was a bloke on the radio asked this today, and all he could come up with was home shopping, clever electricity meters, and other similar things. All those can be done with a 56k modem.

What is the benefit of taxing everyone, just so a few people in remote locations can watch iPlayer, or download mp3s? To me it sounds rather unnecessary.

 

[Mabs]

Sorry, but part of living in a rural community is accepting that access to services will generally be poorer than that found in a suburban community.

If you live on a farm and want better broadband, pay for it yourself.

well no actually

surely it would be easier done by county/zone/borough rather than as a blanket thing ?

 

[Chilly]

let the market cope. If they want it, they can pay. Else they can live in shitty inner cities like the rest of us.

 

[DaGaffer]

Ok, I'm going to build a house 10 miles from the nearest town, and demand that the local council install services to it. Hundreds of thousands of pounds, paid for by the taxpayer, just so I can live in the middle of nowhere.

Fair?

There was a bloke on the radio asked this today, and all he could come up with was home shopping, clever electricity meters, and other similar things. All those can be done with a 56k modem.

What is the benefit of taxing everyone, just so a few people in remote locations can watch iPlayer, or download mp3s? To me it sounds rather unnecessary.

And if you were going to build a house in those circumstances, you might have a point, but what if you've always lived there? You're automatically disbarred from ever having internet access? Maybe we should pull out their electricity cable while we're at it as its clearly a drain on the rest of us.

A few years from now, when the internet has virtually wiped out high street retailing for media products and a few other categories besides, then a broadband connection will become a basic need. It will also have employment benefits; a teleworker who can only work in a densely populated area kind of misses the point...

 

[MYstIC G]

Broadband isn't a right. Dial up counts as internet access.

 

[Moriath]

But is it a one off 50p tax for everyone or is it a monthly thing?

They should just use the BBC fee for this rather than channel (fucking big brother) 4.

proposed as an ongoing monthly thing so 6 quid a year.

I dont see why i should have to pay for infrastruture i wont use cause i already on 50Mb and pay ap remium for that in the first place.

BT should just go back to being a government organisation and provide the back bone for all the other companies to work on

 

[Moriath]

Broadband isn't a right. Dial up counts as internet access.

In france they have said that BB is a human right actually .. i guess being a EU country that will then filter down to every other nation

 

[Furr]

BUT WILL THEY ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING.

Here is my prediction, tax is set up, nothing happens for years and years, a few token places are upgraded whole policy grinds to halt, tax remains.

 

[Ch3tan]

My whole issue was not with this charge too much, it was Gordan Browns bullshit about the digital report heralding an age where Britian would become the top country in the world for net access and speed.

 

[ECA]

BUT WILL THEY ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING.

Here is my prediction, tax is set up, nothing happens for years and years, a few token places are upgraded whole policy grinds to halt, tax remains.

qft.
They dont have the ballsack to rollout a full fibre network.

 

[Zenith.UK]

Broadband isn't a right. Dial up counts as internet access.

And the point of the Carter Report was to determine the future direction of telecom and internet access.
Lord Carter is suggesting that 2Mbps BB is a requirement for the economy. That's why the talk about the Universal Service Obligation (USO). BT *HAVE* to provide a telephone to every house in the UK on request. The Carter Report is saying that BB access should be part of that same USO.

It's all to do with averaging out the cost.
It doesn't cost a lot to hook up a new line in a city because the infrastructure is already there. You pay £126 for a new line but it probably only costs £26 so BT have £100 in the pocket.
Now if you have a new line in the country, you might need a new length of cable laying. You still pay the same £126 for the line but it actually costs £226.
The urban person has effectively helped pay for the engineering work for the rural person. It's all fair though because everyone pays the same price, no matter where they are in the country.

 

[Tom]

And if you were going to build a house in those circumstances, you might have a point, but what if you've always lived there? You're automatically disbarred from ever having internet access? Maybe we should pull out their electricity cable while we're at it as its clearly a drain on the rest of us.

A few years from now, when the internet has virtually wiped out high street retailing for media products and a few other categories besides, then a broadband connection will become a basic need. It will also have employment benefits; a teleworker who can only work in a densely populated area kind of misses the point...

Erm, I think you'll find that homeowners in such situations generally have to pay for their own electricity connection, water connection, and sewage connection (should they require it). Even a phone connection doesn't come free of charge, and the internet can be accessed down just about any phoneline.

You don't need broadband for basic services like shopping, banking, etc.

 

[Aoami]

I'd say a 50p levy was acceptable if the minimum speed being imposed was 8mbps rather than 2, but i'm a student so i don't pay tax anyway

 

[MYstIC G]

And the point of the Carter Report was to determine the future direction of telecom and internet access.
Lord Carter is suggesting that 2Mbps BB is a requirement for the economy. That's why the talk about the Universal Service Obligation (USO). BT *HAVE* to provide a telephone to every house in the UK on request. The Carter Report is saying that BB access should be part of that same USO.

It's all to do with averaging out the cost.
It doesn't cost a lot to hook up a new line in a city because the infrastructure is already there. You pay £126 for a new line but it probably only costs £26 so BT have £100 in the pocket.
Now if you have a new line in the country, you might need a new length of cable laying. You still pay the same £126 for the line but it actually costs £226.
The urban person has effectively helped pay for the engineering work for the rural person. It's all fair though because everyone pays the same price, no matter where they are in the country.

Paper doesn't refuse ink. If what you say is correct, increase the line charge. New taxes are not the solution to everything.

 

[SawTooTH]

proposed as an ongoing monthly thing so 6 quid a year.

I dont see why i should have to pay for infrastruture i wont use cause i already on 50Mb and pay ap remium for that in the first place.

BT should just go back to being a government organisation and provide the back bone for all the other companies to work on

I agree. I've paid for broadband for 10 years, starting off with the incredibly expensive ISDN all the way through to cable. I've had to pay a lot of money for this and I personally don't see why I should subsidize someone else's pleasure. its absolute bollox to say that internet access is the same as the other utilities. Its not essential.

 

[rynnor]

This is all about people in the towns n cities subsidising broadband access for people who live out in teh sticks - I find it intrinsically unfair like many of the idea's in that paper that came out yesterday its crap

 

[Ctuchik]

Not for me, as where i live the lines coming in are made of aluminium, and although i am supposed to have 'up to' 8mb, in reality i get about 1.5mb

sounds decent enough tho, depending on how close to the main pipe you live ofc.

i live a few blocks away from mine and pay for 10 Mbit but are getting around 15 at night

fun to download 10 gig in 5 minutes

/edit: got curious...



thats within sweden.

 

[DaGaffer]

Erm, I think you'll find that homeowners in such situations generally have to pay for their own electricity connection, water connection, and sewage connection (should they require it). Even a phone connection doesn't come free of charge, and the internet can be accessed down just about any phoneline.

You don't need broadband for basic services like shopping, banking, etc.

Only on new builds (and then only under certain circumstances). Water and electricity came out of the public purse way back when. The levy is because a phone line without broadband is going to be essentially useless (and potentially discriminatory) a few years from now. You keep saying you don't need broadband for shopping and banking; have you tried any of those services on a 56K modem lately? And as for money saving services like VOIP, forget it.

Personally I'm quite happy to know that my house buying choices won't be restricted a few years from now because I'd be thinking, "will I be able to get broadband?" You may not think BB is an essential service, but having lived without it for a month when I first moved over here (no connection and in a 3G black spot), it damn well is.

Now you could argue why we're subsidising a private company to do this, but as the government doesn't have the cojones to split up BT and create a network business, this is the quickest way to get the job done. I think about a million posts on here would prove I'm no fan of the government, but six quid is a couple of pints. Deal.

 

[Vae]

I agree with DaGaffer. While I'm not sure whether yet another stealth tax is the best way to help increase Rural Broadband provision I do think that Broadband is becoming increasingly a necessity.

Dial-up is no longer a realistic option with the way sites are now designed.

Access to banking, cheaper shopping prices, most information and also communication is now all dependent on having an Internet connection. While you might be able to survive without one it will make your life a hell of a lot easier if you do have one. France has now recognised this by striking out the law allowing them to disconnect file-sharers and I hope the UK follows.

 

[Ctuchik]

, but six quid is a couple of pints. Deal.

dont think the price in itself will be the issue.

its probably more, you could pay for this, so why not that, and that, and that, and that...

its just a couple of pints

give them a finger and they chew off your head

 

[Zenith.UK]

Everyone's bitching at it being a levy or tax.

If BT arbitrarily increased their line rental from £11.50 to £12 without telling you why, you'd still be paying it. You'd grumble that BT are money-grabbing bastards but you'd still be paying your line rental. The difference is that people would know why BT increased their rental charges in this case.

The report is suggesting that BT should increase EVERYONE's line rental to provide improved net access for ALL people. FFS ppl it's £6 a year.
Don't give me "credit crunch" or "recession" crap... most people spend that much in a day on lunch, coffee and munchies. That much spread over a year is next to nothing.

Thus speaks the semi-rural dweller.