News Proper Justice

[Cozak]

Good to see some these days: BBC NEWS | Northern Ireland | Foyle and West | Schoolgirl rapist shot in attack

Wotcha think? Good? Or they almost the same low level as the rapist for dishing out their own brand of justice?
Personally think the the prick got everything coming to him.. and thats just the start wait till he gets into prison!

 

[Vintersorg]

IMHO, the guy got what he deserved...I hope he's in pain.
too bad it's not life-threatening...

 

[Access Denied]

IMHO, the guy got what he deserved...I hope he's in pain.
too bad it's not life-threatening...

Don't want it to be life threatening. We want him to suffer and if he died quick he wouldn't.

 

[Huntingtons]

nevermind his kids, just let them get traumatizied.

 

[Vintersorg]

Don't want it to be life threatening. We want him to suffer and if he died quick he wouldn't.

Well, I want it to be life threatening, but I want the bugger to die a slow painful death...not a quick death.
Quick death would be too good for rapists...

 

[Afran]

"There were two young children in the house, a 12-week-old baby and a six-year-old who saw everything."

That's what makes it wrong :/

 

[Vintersorg]

"There were two young children in the house, a 12-week-old baby and a six-year-old who saw everything."

That's what makes it wrong :/

Ah, I had missed that part in the article.
They should have picked on this guy wen these children were not near.

 

[Imgormiel]

Not siding with the rapist, indeed the opposite. His actions deserve punishment. But I have to agree with what was said in the article. The law and the judicial system were put there for a reason, and it has held many constitutions together over centuries. The law of the jungle has no sway over penal sentencing and people should respect the law. The guy hadn't even been sentenced yet.......

 

[Vintersorg]

Not siding with the rapist, indeed the opposite. His actions deserve punishment. But I have to agree with what was said in the article. The law and the judicial system were put there for a reason, and it has held many constitutions together over centuries. The law of the jungle has no sway over penal sentencing and people should respect the law. The guy hadn't even been sentenced yet.......

I don't want to sound negative, but I don't trust the law and courts.
Near where I live, two Muslims beat up an homeless man last year, because he was drinking alcohol during the Ramadan (and this is NOT a Muslim country, mind you). They weren't sentenced, because "it would cause riots with the Muslim population if we had sentenced them"...Ever since that, I don't believe in our legal system anymore.
Granted, I don't live in the UK...

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

"There were two young children in the house, a 12-week-old baby and a six-year-old who saw everything."

Then it's a fucking object lesson in why they shouldn't grow up to be like Daddy isn't it?

If we're dealing with someone who has a conviction for rape, you can draw one of two conclusions:
1) They got extremely unlucky and got caught/convicted on the only time they did it (see below re:the likelyhood of this).
2) They've done it repeatedly and only gotten caught once.

To be quite honest i wouldn't have done more than smile quietly if someone had put two in his chest and one in his head after working him over for an hour with a hacksaw and a pair of pliers.

And dont even get me started on the "what if he was innocent". Do you know how few juries actually convict someone on a rape charge? The odds of it being a false conviction are very low.

The conviction rate is currently about 5%.

That's 5% of the cases that get brought to court.

Not 5% of the ones that are reported, not 5% of the ones that happen.

It's estimated that less than 20% are reported.

This is what happens when the CJS breaks down completely as it has now.

I suspect that the people that did it knew he would get a pathetically low sentance, that would be cut by 1/3 for a guilty plea and by a further 1/3 to 50% by mitigation by his brief.

Average actual time served for a rape conviction in the UK is under 3 years currently (not to be confused with the time handed down as part of sentancing / pre plea and mitigation).

 

[Imgormiel]

I don't want to sound negative, but I don't trust the law and courts.
Near where I live, two Muslims beat up an homeless man last year, because he was drinking alcohol during the Ramadan (and this is NOT a Muslim country, mind you). They weren't sentenced, because "it would cause riots with the Muslim population if we had sentenced them"...Ever since that, I don't believe in our legal system anymore.
Granted, I don't live in the UK...

That's more down to the political climate than justice. I agree that the softly, softly approach was taken on this one. That's why the American justice system cuts deals to a criminal to get a bigger fish. In this case it was the bigger fish that was wielding the stick ><

 

[Corran]

Not siding with the rapist, indeed the opposite. His actions deserve punishment. But I have to agree with what was said in the article. The law and the judicial system were put there for a reason, and it has held many constitutions together over centuries. The law of the jungle has no sway over penal sentencing and people should respect the law. The guy hadn't even been sentenced yet.......

I dont trust the courts.. been involved with them way to much to actually trust them to come to the right decision... not read the link so dont know what country this is in but thought i would just say that the British Justice system has very few people trusting it to come to the right outcome.

Yes this is often down to politics, but also the judges rarely give out the sentences they should and can... if they do sentence always reduced on appeal... and most the time people get released early on top of that.

You cant but lose face with the justice system when you dealt with different cops and heard them give advice on the way to best deal with things... two examples:

1) If there a break in, then feel free to kill the person that broke in. Just once you done it go to the kitchen and get a kitchen knife. Put it in their hand to get prints, then kick it out the way. By doing this you wont have to worry about being charged (that said should be allowed to defend home with whatever force you want anyways)

2) If you do feel you ever need to kill someone, then just get in a car and run them down. Sentance you get will be minimal as if you do it properly you cant go down for murder.

 

[TdC]

The first man was 5ft 10ins and the second 6ft 2ins

wow, they rock at judging height while under extreme stress o0

 

[dub]

personally i dont like drunk drivers , hmm or people who cheat with taxes , maybe i should pop some bullets into some of them ?

vigilantes are scum.

 

[Huntingtons]

its ok, im thinking of going to binarys and burn his house down so his kids can see they shouldnt turn into daddy

 

[Imgormiel]

I've been assaulted a few times in my past, mostly because people have been drunk and have lost leave of their senses. Not once have I resorted to the same tactic after sobering up, and I can say that I got justice through the courts, CPS or the police 99% of the time.

To some people, it may not seem fair that there is only one legal way of justice, but it's there for a reason. Use it, don't abuse it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No matter if you kill a rapist or mother teresa.

It's still murder.

Leave that to the professionals *looks at government*

Nevermind...

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

its ok, im thinking of going to binarys and burn his house down so his kids can see they shouldnt turn into daddy

So a stable person, without a drug addiction, without a single arrest let alone a charge, in a good job, who hasn't been convicted of raping anyone deserves the burning down of his house?

In summary: Shove your fallacious comparison up your arse sideways...

 

[Huntingtons]

i dont like your attitude, want to make sure your children dont grow up like you? is that so bad?

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

i dont like your attitude, want to make sure your children dont grow up like you? is that so bad?

Fortunately, my attitude wasn't the point of this thread now was it? So whether you like it or not really doesn't matter.

Being an ass about my "attitude" really isn't the same as disagreeing with my point of view.

Unless of course you're saying my attitude has the same negative karma as a rape conviction? If so, then you really do have no clue about life whatsoever.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Fortunately, my attitude wasn't the point of this thread now was it? So whether you like it or not really doesn't matter.

Being an ass about my "attitude" really isn't the same as disagreeing with my point of view.

Unless of course you're saying my attitude has the same negative karma as a rape conviction? If so, then you really do have no clue about life whatsoever.

I think you're the one without a clue. I mean, come on. If vigilante's would rule this or your country, you would get shot up for parking your car over two parking lots, tailgating another car up too close, skipping the queue in front of a museum.....
Even though the man was convicted, you would still have to let the law deal with it. You don't wanna live in the dark ages with the medievil inquisition determining what you may or may not think or do.
If this vigilante law is what you want, you'll also get those aforementioned muslims killing that homeless dude for drinking alcohol. Ofcourse, the muslims would be killed by others, who then would again be killed by more of the muslim group. Before you know it you'll have a genuine killfest in the streets.
Think one step further man, and don't be an ignorant twat.

 

[Lethul]

Iran: Acid To Be Dripped Into Spurned Man's Eyes For Disfiguring Woman | World News | Sky News

justice

old but this topic reminded me of it!

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Before you know it you'll have a genuine killfest in the streets.
Think one step further man, and don't be an ignorant twat.

Yare compare my points to his irrelevant point to supposedly demonstrate i'm the ignorant one which just doesn't work - his entire argument consisted of attacking me rather than my viewpoint.

Perhaps it will help if i explain my viewpoint.

The CJS of any country is based on fear. "Mutual Respect" does not cut it and you only have to look at the mess the UK CJS is in to see why.

Fear. Fear of being caught and punished. The punishment usually taking the form of imprisonment / loss of freedom for significant period.

The above has been proven by studies galore - those who are do not commit crime but are tempted to do so are deterred by the thought of punishment (prison time), those who commit it are imprisoned for a period determined to be "fair" for the severity of the crime. This worked because by and large, the sentances handed down were of a good length, and usually the guilty individual served the majority of the term of the sentance.

Currently, the system no longer imposes decent length sentances (due to government guidelines / rules to reduce prison overcrowding as they haven't built enough new prisons), and those it does impose are drastically cut in a truly horrendous way to further reduce overcrowding in a slightly underhand way so that the government can claim that they are still sending people to prison for decent amounts of time for serious crime.

They aren't - it's an illusion and i'll tell you why now.

If you are sentanced to 15 years (unlikely - usually less for the crime this thread is about), you will get 1/3 knocked off by a guilty plea, and up to a further 1/3 of the original sentance knocked off by a good brief doing mitigation (he was drunk, she was asking for it, he'd just broke up with his missus etc etc). So - a 15 year sentance becomes 5 years. A 10 year sentance becomes 3 years. A 5 year sentance becomes a year and change.

Add to the above that you can be eligible for release as standard (you can appeal if it is set otherwise under the EHRA to the ECHR) after serving 50% of your final post-mitigation/plea sentance has been served and many people don't even do a year inside for a serious conviction.

Because of the above, many people are no longer afraid of being caught/imprisoned as they would have been 20 years ago. This leads to a frustrated and angry joe citizen as they see the scum getting off time and again with very little punishment (don't even get me started on how many rape convictions end in a guilty verdict but a non-custodial sentance due to very good mitigation from the accused's brief).

To cut to the point(s):

Prison sentances are now so laughable they do not create a deterrent.
Knowing you might get shot/tortured etc does

Fix the system so that the sentance creates fear again, and i'll be the first one to condemn vigilantism. For now, i'm all for it as it brings back the fear.

Harsh perhaps, my viewpoint is informed and i can go into how i know the above if you really want me to, but it's not relevant to the discussion at hand.

As to my original comment - children raised by that sort of man do not have a good chance of turning out well. At least on some level now they will know daddy did something bad, and had something bad happen to him in turn.

I'm happy to clarify further if the above is unclear.

 

[Mey]

Before I make a comment, am I right in thinking that the Rape happened 7 years ago? The girl being 15 at the time now 22? (edit) He was 30 at the time by the looks of things. Nevermind.

(re: the rape conviction figure, it is so low because it is one of the hardest crimes to beyond reasonable doubt judge guilt. The very nature of the crime usually leads it to be one person word against anothers.)

My views are easy to sum up. This is not justice, it's revenge.

This leads to a frustrated and angry joe citizen as they see the scum getting off time and again with very little punishment .

The people that end up taking the law into their own hands are Scum themselves, they probably have a string of offences to their names aswell. The amoral informing the immoral. Laughable tbh.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

This is not justice, it's revenge.

Since the CJS is unable to deliver justice, I think revenge is a good substitute to create fear.

 

[Jeros]

Become a criminal to punish criminals? lawl

 

[megadave]

Now lets shoot the shooter infront of his family, that'll sort the problem right out!

 

[Ezteq]

SDLP Councillor Mark H. Durkan said he had spoken to Keith Burnside's girlfriend who witnessed the attack.

"She's in an awful state of shock, it was an extremely traumatic experience for everyone involved," he said.

"There were two young children in the house, a 12-week-old baby and a six-year-old who saw everything."

WHAT???!!! the fuck was he doing with kids and what thr fuck was his girlfriend doing with a bloke who had a rape conviction in the first fucking place??? can you imagine the family conversation at dinner the next day??

Mam "oh children youre traumatised because your daddy got shot"

kid..."no we're traumatized because our daddy is a fucking sex attacker and you chose to have kids with and stay with him you stupid fucking bint"

dad "watch your language son youre only six"

baby "fuck off dad your pervert...erm...waaah"


why were those children still in the house with him?? anyway, yes im glad he was shot. if someone hurt someone i loved i would shoot them too so yes i agree and sympathise.

 

[Zenith.UK]

Yes he deserved what he got.
No he shouldn't have been shot in front of his kids.
He had been CONVICTED in a court, but was awaiting sentencing.

The Courts can't provide adequate justice since they've been crippled by too much political interference (think sentencing guidelines, good behaviour, early release scheme...). It all adds up to a lack of faith in the justice system.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

WHAT???!!! the fuck was he doing with kids and what thr fuck was his girlfriend doing with a bloke who had a rape conviction in the first fucking place??? can you imagine the family conversation at dinner the next day??

Mam "oh children youre traumatised because your daddy got shot"

kid..."no we're traumatized because our daddy is a fucking sex attacker and you chose to have kids with and stay with him you stupid fucking bint"

dad "watch your language son youre only six"

baby "fuck off dad your pervert...erm...waaah"


why were those children still in the house with him?? anyway, yes im glad he was shot. if someone hurt someone i loved i would shoot them too so yes i agree and sympathise.

I will bet fucking money on this: Social services didnt want to break up the family despite the risks inherent. Blame the government and the inept bint in the home office for those policies.

Seen it time and time again through friends in social work, probation and police.