professional opinions

[- English -]

In one on my assignments I had to do a comparison between silverlight and flash. This isnt the problem, but the teacher said I was bordering plagurism as it was my opinion and didnt state it from a professional.

Now who could be a professional opinion in this case. I mean i cant quote adobe as they will obviously say its better, and likewise with microsoft.

Anyone know of any people, books or professionals i can reference to back my points up?

 

[liloe]

I typed in Flash and Silverlight in the amazon search and the result were a few books which contained "new web technologies". If you're lucky, they will compare the different languages.

Or you can look for companies who produce websites. Then you just send them a mail and ask for a small meeting. Best to ask small companies of course, as they're most likely to have some time for you.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Comparisons don't require professional opinions, you just need to be objective and state facts. If your teacher thinks you need pro statements, well, obviously thar's your problem

Get together info on both products and stay away from badmouthing. Perfect comparison.

I can say, as a pro, that most of mobile game industry use flash for a reason, but that doesn't remove the possiblity of silver being the future.

And if you need a quote from a 10 year game developer;

Even if comparing a bag of poo to a bag of diamonds, if your company needs a bag of poo to get the job done more efficiently, you use it.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I don't work with either of these, but some of my colleagues do.

My take is that Flash is an animation package with scripting and control and has grown as such thus having a fair bit of backwards baggage, whereas Silverlight has been designed from the start for cloud applications.

I'm happy to be better informed by someone who works more with these tools.

 

[Tuthmes]

I don't work with either of these, but some of my colleagues do.

My take is that Flash is an animation package with scripting and control and has grown as such thus having a fair bit of backwards baggage, whereas Silverlight has been designed from the start for cloud applications.

I'm happy to be better informed by someone who works more with these tools.

It's spot on.

 

[Garaen]

HTML 5 > Flash (in a few years)

 

[pez]

don't reference books, it makes you look like an amateur.

Reference journal articles written in the last year or two, there must be hundreds in technology journals.

 

[pez]

Comparisons don't require professional opinions, you just need to be objective and state facts. If your teacher thinks you need pro statements, well, obviously thar's your problem

Get together info on both products and stay away from badmouthing. Perfect comparison.

I can say, as a pro, that most of mobile game industry use flash for a reason, but that doesn't remove the possiblity of silver being the future.

And if you need a quote from a 10 year game developer;

Even if comparing a bag of poo to a bag of diamonds, if your company needs a bag of poo to get the job done more efficiently, you use it.

He needs published, peer reviewed opinions not anecdotal nonsense.

The problem is twofold English. Either your opinion was derived from research in which case you need to reference where you researched it and make sure its from a peer reviewd, credible source or it is derived from experience in which case you need to document as scientifically as possible what it was you did, what the result was and why it backs up your conclusion.

 

[old.Tohtori]

or it is derived from experience

That's what i was offering.

Anecdote or not, it's a fact.

And like i said, anyone who claims a comparison needs professional opinions is full of it.

"Which is better, flash or silverlight?" Answer from any given guy who's not biased: "depens what you're doing."

That leaves you with facts of the programs, what they do, what they do faster, better, more efficient. Compare them, tell which wins which, don't badmouth and you're done.

If you just go; source x says this is better for this, youre not doing any work and it's not your comparison.

 

[pez]

That's what i was offering.

Anecdote or not, it's a fact.

And like i said, anyone who claims a comparison needs professional opinions is full of it.

The point -------------------------------------------------------> you

I don't know who you are. His lecturer has no idea who you are. Anyone can say anything they like it dosen't make it fact.

He wants a good mark therefore he either needs to reference credible sources or provide the evidence.

'But this guy on the internet said it' will not get you a good mark. You may disagree and think that 'this guy on the internet's opinion' is a valid reference but it doesn't change the real world. Heck, even Wikipedia demands citations and thats the worst place to reference for an article you want to be taken seriously.

 

[old.Tohtori]

My point --------------------------> you

So how abouts you bugger off hmm?

Or do you want me to post my work records to prove i have experience in the field?

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Pez has pretty much summed up credible research procedure. No need to take him to task for it.

Although, "Depends what you do with it" might be fairly accurate, on its own its not much use. Just out of interest, since you work with Flash, Toh, you got any examples you can share?

Although I don't have a paper to write for someone, it would just be interesting to me.

 

[ST^]

HTML 5 > Flash (in a few years)

Delusional.

 

[- English -]

Yea Pez your right. The research I did, - i listed many advantages and disadvantages and analysed the two is not the problem. Its finding a credible source in which will be adequate for it. Its just a small piece and the mark or quality isnt that important but its more for future use. I was just wondering "who" or what can be classed as a professional opinion. I mean alot of people will be biased. The piece I did, she said it was bording plagerism as it was my opinion and not someone who has wrote a book or something. Yet in reality, its really just facts. They dont care about my opinion though ;<

 

[pez]

My point --------------------------> you

So how abouts you bugger off hmm?

Or do you want me to post my work records to prove i have experience in the field?

If he were to use you for a reference then yes you would have to. Even then it would be a pretty weak reference as you could be considered a clown within the industry.

You might not like it but if he wants to get a good mark I strongly urge him to ignore everything you have said.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Roo, I jsut find it very poor teaching if you're accused of near plagiarism in -your- comparison of two systems if you -don't- copy work

Best example i can offer is a multinational game company saying, in a paraphrase; "Stick to flash for now since all the other programs aren't yet in a state where they would make things more efficient."

Much like i said before.

Flash caters also to a much more wider platform, compared to new systems which don't really cater that well to older models or as wide of a platform spread.

If you're working for, say, only the iphone, newer systems might fit your niche better(the bag of poo analogy).

 

[pez]

Yea Pez your right. The research I did, - i listed many advantages and disadvantages and analysed the two is not the problem. Its finding a credible source in which will be adequate for it. Its just a small piece and the mark or quality isnt that important but its more for future use. I was just wondering "who" or what can be classed as a professional opinion. I mean alot of people will be biased. The piece I did, she said it was bording plagerism as it was my opinion and not someone who has wrote a book or something. Yet in reality, its really just facts. They dont care about my opinion though ;<

What level are we talking about here English, are you at school or is this a uni project. The higher up the academic ladder you get the less original work you will see unless its substantiated by significant levels of research and evidence.

The best place to reference is an academic journal. Articles here will have been firstly agreed to be published so 'shouldn't' be the ramblings of a mad man. Secondly, and much more importantly, they are in a recognised, public space and are able to be attacked by other professionals/academics or be disproved by empirical research.

If you can't get access to a database of journals or its quite low level stuff then try referencing a BBC news article which backs up your point. Again, any thing in the public domain which has come froma credible source.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If he were to use you for a reference then yes you would have to.

Quite, that's why every game magazine for example makes sure to check every game nidustry person they interview and all their work history.

Or do they just go "He works there as such n such"? Hmm, never was that sure of which option they use.

F*cks sake you're treating this as someone posting a supposed aids cure.

 

[- English -]

What level are we talking about here English, are you at school or is this a uni project. The higher up the academic ladder you get the less original work you will see unless its substantiated by significant levels of research and evidence.

The best place to reference is an academic journal. Articles here will have been firstly agreed to be published so 'shouldn't' be the ramblings of a mad man. Secondly, and much more importantly, they are in a recognised, public space and are able to be attacked by other professionals/academics or be disproved by empirical research.

If you can't get access to a database of journals or its quite low level stuff then try referencing a BBC news article which backs up your point. Again, any thing in the public domain which has come froma credible source.

Well its just 1 part of my year 2 assignment at uni which i have to rehand in as i was 5% short of passing. On my feedback, she stated i lost marks as i was bordering plagurism, even though the work i did was my own. I did look it up on the net, reword it, reference the sites and state it was my opinion etc. But she said i need to include references from professionals, but wouldnt give me any. I even asked who could be seen as not biased to it, but she shrugged her shoulders lol.

 

[pez]

If he is writing this for a Diploma and does not use credible referencing he will scrape a pass. If he is writing for an undergraduate degree he will fail. So yeah... it's important to get right.

English wasn't asking for anyone's opinion as far as I can see. Infact, he already has too much unsubstantiated opinion, he needs the opposite.

 

[pez]

Well its just 1 part of my year 2 assignment at uni which i have to rehand in as i was 5% short of passing. On my feedback, she stated i lost marks as i was bordering plagurism, even though the work i did was my own. I did look it up on the net, reword it, reference the sites and state it was my opinion etc. But she said i need to include references from professionals, but wouldnt give me any. I even asked who could be seen as not biased to it, but she shrugged her shoulders lol.

Your university should provide you access to one of the journal databases like JTSOR. They are your best bet. I had a lecturer who was really strict on this. By the time of the third year he would pretty much automatically fail you for referencing a website or book unless it was a web link to a journal or article which had previously been published.

Researching and rewording is fine but not always neccessary. For a jaw drop moment try and get hold of a doctorate paper. I would say of the average 10, 000 word paper probably 5-6000 of those words are quotations/references. Fact is, theres going to be very, very few things at your level that you can say which have not been said by someone more qualified or who has done more thorough research. Using other peoples work is not frowned upon at all, the highest marks will be awarded so long as you reference properly.

As for biased articles. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with bias. In fact, you will probably get even higher marks for referencing a source and then explaining its bias. It's still evidence for/against a case.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If he is writing this for a Diploma and does not use credible referencing he will scrape a pass. If he is writing for an undergraduate degree he will fail. So yeah... it's important to get right.

English wasn't asking for anyone's opinion as far as I can see. Infact, he already has too much unsubstantiated opinion, he needs the opposite.

It's also important to consider the subject, flash and silverlight will be softwares that have higher opinion value in circles like game production, and those circles aren't that pressured by "all data must meet high grade scrutiny to be considered valid!". You're thinking way too big for the subject matter.

Only thing -I- said was towards the plagiarism claim, which is pretty weird if then asked for professional sources to personal comparison. Does not compute. I added my professional opinion, i wasn't forcing it down his throat or saying he should use it.

YOU, took it on yourself to make it a problem.

Also seems you're advocating for more plagiarism, which is the initial problem.

 

[pez]

It's also important to consider the subject, flash and silverlight will be softwares that have higher opinion value in circles like game production, and those circles aren't that pressured by "all data must meet high grade scrutiny to be considered valid!"

Only thing -I- said was towards the plagiarism claim, which is pretty weird if then asked for professional sources to personal comparison. Does not compute. I added my professional opinion, i wasn't forcing it down his throat or saying he should use it.

YOU, took it on yourself to make it a problem.

Ok bro, its my problem. Your opinion is still of no use and irrelevant to his query.

Also seems you're advocating for more plagiarism, which is the initial problem.

Plagiarism is when you try and pass off someone else's work as your own. Proper referencing is the opposite. In theory you could write a piece with nothing but quotations and not a single original word, so long as you referenced it properly it would not be plagiarism. It would be shit, but not plagiarism.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ok bro, its my problem. Your opinion is still of no use and irrelevant to his query.

Yes it is, it's questioning the criticism he recieved. If he uses more quotes from professionals and more material from sources, it will make the comparison even more plagiarised.

I think that constitutes as relevant.

In that aspect, you telling how to find professional data is as relevant, if we consider the initial question; "Anyone know of any people, books or professionals i can reference to back my points up?"

Plagiarism is when you try and pass off someone else's work as your own. Proper referencing is the opposite. In theory you could write a piece with nothing but quotations and not a single original word, so long as you referenced it properly it would not be plagiarism. It would be shit, but not plagiarism.

Yes and that's why, my initial response. It seems like poor teaching. It's akin to saying "You're work seems too professional, lower your work quality to pass or set links to the work you did not copy."

 

[Genedril]

In academic referencing it isn't enough to reference someone who is 'in' a given field. You have to reference someone who is published in that field and a recognised authority. For example in writing a dissertation on a Historical subject referencing your 6th form college lecturer is not considered to be legitimate unless you are referencing a published book or article that said lecturer contributed to or wrote.

As it's been said before - this is the way that academic referencing works.

If someone referenced me in a paper for something I said about Cisco Security I'd be horrified even if it was something I'd posted on a forum. If I ever wrote a book then fair enough.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I reckon RFCs (Request For Comments) documents are a good source of credible information if you're doing reseearch. They are however very, very dry reading and you've got a serious amount of wading to do.

I come across RFCs from time to time but fortunately I don't have to heavily read through them, its usually enough for me to know in passing which RFC might apply to some technology I'm working with, though outside of exams I never use that info in day-to-day work.

Request for Comments has a database of RFCs.

Although it doesn't mention the technologies directly, possibly RFC3023 is in the ballpark. Since it covers media types, and the discussed technologies are (at least partly) about media delivery it might be a good place to have a nosey.

Or not. I just got interested and started sniffing about a bit

 

[- English -]

In academic referencing it isn't enough to reference someone who is 'in' a given field. You have to reference someone who is published in that field and a recognised authority. For example in writing a dissertation on a Historical subject referencing your 6th form college lecturer is not considered to be legitimate unless you are referencing a published book or article that said lecturer contributed to or wrote.

As it's been said before - this is the way that academic referencing works.

If someone referenced me in a paper for something I said about Cisco Security I'd be horrified even if it was something I'd posted on a forum. If I ever wrote a book then fair enough.

Hehe yea, very true...

but who could i reference for a comparison between silverlight and flash ;p

 

[old.Tohtori]

Hehe yea, very true...

but who could i reference for a comparison between silverlight and flash ;p

That's the point i was trying to make to these academic types, but enough of that, hard to change ways of an old dog

I'd go with gaming magazines personally, lot of info there that could back up your opinions. Edge perhaps being the most notable source.

It's not "academically kosher", but f*ck me it's the most reliable source for this subject.

 

[- English -]

That's the point i was trying to make to these academic types, but enough of that, hard to change ways of an old dog

I'd go with gaming magazines personally, lot of info there that could back up your opinions. Edge perhaps being the most notable source.

It's not "academically kosher", but f*ck me it's the most reliable source for this subject.

yea but have Edge done a review of silverlight and flash, i cant imagine its online anywhere lol

 

[old.Tohtori]

yea but have Edge done a review of silverlight and flash, i cant imagine its online anywhere lol

Edge Magazine - Video Games, Game News, and Gaming Jobs | Edge Magazine

Scroll down, contact us link, drop a line and ask "Has edge published XYZ" and "Is there a way to find this information online". (unless ofcourse you find it on your own)

If they have, but don't have articles online, you could ask them for a pdf file of the article or eve get your hands on the issue and print out a copy of it.