Prescience Node changes

[Arnor]

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1195.shtml


this does not count on infils, they can still get pets after them and be attacked from range

 

[sheepgobaa]

Expect further adjustments - its a good start though.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

If you look back at the more stupid ideas Mythic has made, they come across as if Mythic really has no clue what kind of impact certain chances make
They should really do more testing on chances before they implement them. ToA is a prime example of this
Just glad we get it later really, so that GoA can combine the 1.66 patch with the 1.67 patch.
Will prevent a lot of pissed off people I think.
Regards, Glottis

 

[belth]

Who cares about PN... Stealth lore's gonna fuck up your template if it's going to work like Mythic means.

 

[Haldar]

yeah...i'd like have some MA that disrupts casters from casting (primary function) and fighters from doing styled attacks (primary function again) in exchange for losing my primary ability (stealth)

 

[marczje]

How to screw stealthers - part 1

 

[acei]

Originally posted by Haldar
yeah...i'd like have some MA that disrupts casters from casting (primary function) and fighters from doing styled attacks (primary function again) in exchange for losing my primary ability (stealth)

You make it sound like it's a instant spell or that it lasts forever. In actual battlefield conditions, the only ones effected are MG campers and the stealthers that attempt to enter keeps. Both of which annoy the hell out of me.

Don't like that they're already nerfing MA's... it took them months to nerf LA yet they nerf 1 decent spell within a few days

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Haldar
yeah...i'd like have some MA that disrupts casters from casting (primary function) and fighters from doing styled attacks (primary function again) in exchange for losing my primary ability (stealth)

Errr. I'm going to ignore the 'disrupts casters casting' because that's been present on charged items almost forever.

As for 'fighters from doing styled attacks'...

Acracity 1 min Duration

This proc blocks all incoming style dmg reducing it to zero. So all melee attacks against you are for damage purposes considered non-styled.

Less whine please. k?

 

[qyrf]

Acracity 1 min Duration what is that pin ? and what ma line is it in ??

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by qyrf
Acracity 1 min Duration what is that pin ? and what ma line is it in ??

It's a proc/charge on some ToA artifacts.

 

[Haldar]

Errr. I'm going to ignore the 'disrupts casters casting' because that's been present on charged items almost forever.

charged item affects only 1 caster, PN affects whole area in 1000 radius. see the difference? same goes for proc/charge u listed.

heh, imagine some Distraction-like skill, only it makes not a loot bag for stupid mobs....something like nude chick of human race of opposing realm with the corresponding distracting AE effect.....wanna cast - go to other side of keep!

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Haldar
Errr. I'm going to ignore the 'disrupts casters casting' because that's been present on charged items almost forever.

charged item affects only 1 caster, PN affects whole area in 1000 radius. see the difference? same goes for proc/charge u listed.

heh, imagine some Distraction-like skill, only it makes not a loot bag for stupid mobs....something like nude chick of human race of opposing realm with the corresponding distracting AE effect.....wanna cast - go to other side of keep!

dont fucking talk about needing stuff to interrupt casters



stealth isnt your PURPOSE, you can still function even if it was totally removed, youll just be very bad at it. (cept mercfils&high rr sb/ns)


and besides, PN is gonna force stealth-wars away from the milegates and stuff, is this a huge problem?

 

[Haldar]

stealth isnt your PURPOSE

stealth is my KEY ABILITY! and i have all rights to whine when i see it removed. especially when it is usable not only by 1 enemy (tsing archer), but by his entire realm! So i want something for removing key abilities of my enemies.

you can still function even if it was totally removed, youll just be very bad at it.

you(zerker) can still function even if styles were totally removed, youll just be very bad at it (fighting).

(cept mercfils&high rr sb/ns)

yeah, spec like 50 axe/50 LA/37 env. little zerk with (roughly) same defence, less WS, less hp, worse RAs.

and besides, PN is gonna force stealth-wars away from the milegates and stuff, is this a huge problem?

this leaves (for me as SB) only mpk-mmg zone and DF. but what shall i do in mpk-mmg area if infis are forced to apk-amg and NSs cant pass mmg and amg too? And keeptakes going down the tube too.
================================
this ma kills 7 stealth classes. period.

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

I can understand caster classes hate stealthers, but the same goes for assasins hating caster classes who can just root them, nuke them, stun them, debuff them, all from a safe distance.

But stealthers play an important role in a keep take (defended keep take). This way this role is being reduced to allmost non existant which is a shame.
A grouped caster is hardly affected by stealthers, much more by the assist train that rolls over them.
Solo casters will get ganked 95% of the time, but they know this beforehand. Stealth classes are meant for solo playing, rest needs a group to function the best they can.
Stealthers can throw a lot of battles in the favor of the side they are on, but are not very mobile and consequently easily avoidable.
Regards, Glottis

 

[Whisperess]

Originally posted by Arnor
stealth isnt your PURPOSE, you can still function even if it was totally removed, youll just be very bad at it. (cept mercfils&high rr sb/ns)

Usually agree with what you 'say', but this was probably the most stupid thing I've ever 'heard'.

 

[<Harle>]

Yeah, like a 1hp node i going to last long in an attacked keep that is being hammered by aoe-spells

 

[Haldar]

Stealthers can throw a lot of battles in the favor of the side they are on

only if 1 of sides gets stealth add - usually at 1 of mgs.

but are not very mobile and consequently easily avoidable.


exactly

Yeah, like a 1hp node i going to last long in an attacked keep that is being hammered by aoe-spells

yeah, like a caster with a bit of brains in his/her head will put it to ramparts.....it will work fine when placed in countryard.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Haldar
stealth is my KEY ABILITY! and i have all rights to whine when i see it removed. especially when it is usable not only by 1 enemy (tsing archer), but by his entire realm! So i want something for removing key abilities of my enemies.


this leaves (for me as SB) only mpk-mmg zone and DF. but what shall i do in mpk-mmg area if infis are forced to apk-amg and NSs cant pass mmg and amg too? And keeptakes going down the tube too.
================================
this ma kills 7 stealth classes. period.

lol

get a grip please.

So much of what you've read abour the convoker ML 2 is wrong. I dinged ML2 a few days ago, and last night was my first time I was able to go out in RVR and get a feel for Prescience Node. I would also like to add that I do have a hunter with True Sight, so it is interesting comparing TS to PN. Here is what I found:

Here's the facts:
1. 15 second cast time to place a node, must be standing still like any other spell.
2. 10 minute duration on node
3. 5 minute recast timer to place a second node
4. I'm not sure the actual range, I would guess a radius of 600-800 from center. So maybe 1200-1500 edge to edge. It's hard to say as it was not a controlled test. But my enemies were appearing well within my normal casting engage range.
5. Any stealthed enemies you see CANNOT be casted against. They cannot be targetted with F8. You must manually target them and must use melee to pop their stealth or wait for them to engage to break their own stealth. You could GTAE or PBAE, but not directly cast a spell against them. You could send a pet after them.
6. Having a node down will aggro any mob or enemy guard that walks through the area of effect
7. If any enemies or mobs are in the area of effect, you are considered in combat. This effects power regen rate, speed spells, and the ability to pop MCL.
8. The graphic for PN is this small little white swirl. It is not obvious from a distance. It is visible in the snow. If I were to have mythic change anything at all about this spell, I'd have them change the spell to a blue glowing ball that could be seen from clipping range. Word is that it has 1hp and can be attacked, but I never verified this.
9. PN remains placed if the caster logs or leaves the area. I think it remains effective for all realm mates but I can't say for sure.

Summary:
This is a good camping spell. This is not a good suprise spell of zooming up and finding everyone in the area. Your enemies have plenty of time to leave the area of effect while you are casting. Because you can't cast spells on the stealthed person, a pet class or a GROUP benefits from this spell more than most casters. This spell will rarely be used in DF due to the aggro consequences. This spell in no way makes stealth classes obsolete! But it does bring TICTACS into a stealther knowing what area he can enter and what he can't. Because of the slow cast time, this is a poor suprise spell, and as I said, if there could be one thing to balance this ability, it would be to make it more obvious from outside of range that this was running. If mythic changed that frankly I don't know what a reasonable stealther would complain about. I don't even think the ability to constantly run two nodes is all that big a deal.

Experiences:
1. Emain:
First I ran solo out to the MMF emain and laid one down. Nothing there. Then I hooked up with a skald friend and we ran over to amf after the five minute recast timer was up. We zoomed up and I began the slow slow cast of this thing. I would like to reiterate that this has a 15 second cast time during which I am expecting to get PA'd at any time. You cannot zoom up and suprise someone unless they are not paying attention. So anyway, I cast the thing, and after about a 2 second delay we see an inf about 4 feet from us moving at me. I started to move and he got his PA off, but my moving screwed up the subsequent CD so I avoided the stun and sure death. Fighting the inf, a scout popped on his own to join in. It was a fun fight overall two versus two. I was the sole survivor and running back to mpk I laid another at mmf and nothing was there.

2. Uppland gates:
Stealthers love to camp Uppland gates on Merlin. So I ran out from gates and laid one down at the crossroads in front. After 5 minutes I laid a second down spread out a little and just hung out. Every 5 minutes from there one node would fade and I'd recast to keep 2 nodes going. There was an inf down the road killing people, but he avoided the crossroads so he never came into play. During this time, every single grey mob in the area was charging me as they agroe'd from this thing. I was ungrouped, and another ungrouped zerk was there hanging out with me. After 20 minutes or so, a couple of niteshades came to visit stealthing towards us. This was the first test of someone walking into the area of effect and it was pretty cool. I would guess they appeared at about 800 units, and I tried to get an AE root off to start out but I could not cast spells against them. The zerker charged one and began melee, and the second kept stealthing towards me. Because I couldn't cast any spells on him I did a run-by to get off a pbae disease and again got PA'd but not the follow up stun. We then had a two on two fight where they did not have the element of suprise and the zerk tore them up.

3. Bledmeer. Taking an enemy keep then defending the courtyard.
Albs had a couple of our keeps so we headed out. We came to a lightly defended Bled and attacked. At the start of the siege I placed a PN at the bottom of one of the front climb points. There were a few drawbacks to doing this. First every guard that popped immediately aggroe'd on me before others. But more significantly, having enemies in the area of effect kept me in combat for power regen reasons. I regened power at the rate of being in combat, and I couldn't pop MCL the whole time we were there which was about 30 minutes all told. After we got D1 down, 4 groups of albs rolled up from behind so we had to defend the courtyard while trying to take down D2. I placed a second PN at the other front climb point so we had both covered. Again when I'd see infs or minstrels coming over I could not cast spells on them. But it was nice to be able to avoid getting PA'd. This was where I appreciated PN the most, to have some defense against getting PA'd on the walls while trying to defend a keep. The guards that were popping were friendly to the Infs so I don't know if PN allows a guard to aggro on the exposed stealthers.

Editorial:
This spell is nowhere near as bad as all the hysterical stealthers are claiming. True Sight is a much better "suprise" spell in that it is insta-cast and you can move around and search. PN is a better camping spell. With the slow slow cast time of PN, any stealther can move outside of 1000 units from the caster before the spell is done being cast. This spell will almost never be used in DF so won't affect stealthers there. This spell is great for camping mileforts or keeps. But camping mileforts is a good way to get zerged from behind in my experience. And at keeps you would need at least two PN classes placing nodes every 5 minutes to keep all the climb points covered. This will largely allow you to see incoming stealthers and would require them to have some tactics. We will see experienced stealthers in the future team up to have one stealther drop a node, and another stealther go after the node caster.

Stealthers, you are not obsolete, and all of you complaining that this one ability makes it so you can't do your job is bull. Casters have to face interupts. Melee has to face CC. Mezzers have to face determination or recast timers. My shaman is completely unable to do a darn thing if someone sticks a pet on me. Every ability in the game should have a counter. Stealth has been 99.9% effective forever which in my mind was too effective. Thats not to say your classes don't have issues, but the 99.9% effectiveness of stealth was not the solution. That just allowed you more freedom to solo without fear than any other class. Welcome to our world. Now when you approach a milefort, you will have to wonder if a PN is there. Now you will have to listen to the cg just like the rest of us to know what area's to avoid. And yes, sometimes you will need to zerg it up to get through a PN bottleneck. I personally have always enjoyed solo RVR with my shaman. But if I was ever to die to a couple of infs camping a milefort the reply from these board would have been "cry more noob. Get tactics. Don't expect to solo with complete safety". Well now the same applies to you. The best stealthers will not even hardly be affected by this. But the flavor of the month leet gankers will cry because they can't attack anyone they want with impunity.

I truly believe the best of the assassins and archers will hardly be affected by this, and certainly not made obsolete. But the lazy milefort campers.... You guys may have issues.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Haldar
yeah, like a caster with a bit of brains in his/her head will put it to ramparts.....it will work fine when placed in countryard.

???

GTAE and Trebs routinely pound the courtyard. But anyway, what use is it going to be there?

 

[Haldar]

and what? seen this text several hours ago. and seen the answers of Infis on that text too.

and why should caster cast or melee stealther? just tell in /g 'st ahead'....or why tell when all will see him by this time?

 

[Haldar]

But anyway, what use is it going to be there?

bcoz of 1500 (1000 after nerf) work radius.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Haldar
and what? seen this text several hours ago. and seen the answers of Infis on that text too.

and why should caster cast or melee stealther? just tell in /g 'st ahead'....or why tell when all will see him by this time?

You are reading replies from people who are exaggerating something they have heard from a friend of a friend. Stop crying and think about what it actually does to both sides. The caster, his group and the stealthers passing by. Think abot the practicalities of using it in all the situations that you are crying about.

 

[jua-]

Originally posted by belth
Who cares about PN... Stealth lore's gonna fuck up your template if it's going to work like Mythic means.

we infs have more than enough points to spend :>

and as far as the pets i am sure a snare trap would work fine

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Haldar
bcoz of 1500 (1000 after nerf) work radius.

1000 radius in the middle of the courtyard? What is that going to do? What assassin goes down to the courtyard when everywhere else in the keep is not secured?

Anyway, this is what will REALLY happen.

caster casts PN in the middle of the courtyard.
assassin/minstrel climbs wall, sees node, insta-kills it with DD/bolt/throwing dagger.
assassin/minstrel goes away and re-stealths.
assassin/minstrel climbs back up and does whatever he wants during the next 5 minutes due to the re-cast timer on it.

Or, he sets a GT for trebs/GTAE-ers, and they just pop them immediately (and will be hitting all the people that are trying to 'hide' within the node's radius.


Currently all you are reading is VN ppl crying. Few people actually have the ability yet. Few people have encountered it being used. And even fewer have actually really thought about the thing. They're just crying.

 

[belth]

Originally posted by jua-
we infs have more than enough points to spend :>

and as far as the pets i am sure a snare trap would work fine

Not really, can't keep current specs atleast, going to have to sacrifice something to raise base stealth. Stealth lore fucks up archers and NS/SB a lot more than infs tho...

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by belth
Not really, can't keep current specs atleast, going to have to sacrifice something to raise base stealth. Stealth lore fucks up archers and NS/SB a lot more than infs tho...

No it doesn't. If you're worried about someone being able to see you more easily, then get a Stealth Lore artifact yourself and raise your own stealth to counter it.

If these artifacts are so rare that you aren't going to be able to get one easily, then they are too rare for you to bother worrying about it

If they are common enough for you to worry about it, then they are common enough for you to get one yourself.

 

[belth]

Then you're back where you were pre-ToA and are going to have to raise stealth if you want to have higher chances of not being detected. Propably won't be done by many, only people who are actually interested in scouting out enemies. But if everyone starts raising their base stealth...

Lots of if's and but's, they'll propably tweak it some more.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by belth
Then you're back where you were pre-ToA and are going to have to raise stealth if you want to have higher chances of not being detected.

no. you're back where you were pre-ToA, so you don't have to do anything to your spec at all to remain exactly where you were before.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Whisperess
Usually agree with what you 'say', but this was probably the most stupid thing I've ever 'heard'.

a stealther that is seen 100% of the time, what tools does he have?


a caster that gets interrupted 100% of the time, what tools does he have?

 

[Whisperess]

Originally posted by Arnor
a stealther that is seen 100% of the time, what tools does he have?

a caster that gets interrupted 100% of the time, what tools does he have?

a tank that's mezzed 100% of the time, what tools does he have?

seriously though - I know you're into the caster-loving now and all that - but there are ways to fight interupts ( and it's not a passive skill by enemy realm mates to interupt you ) - Are you suggesting that it takes skill for you to 'see' a visible stealther?

1. I don't know how much PN and similar stuff will affect things at all, so won't comment on it.

2. Your statement was still silly though, so I do comment on it. A stealther without stealth is like a caster without casts ( your favourite ) or a fighter without fights - none of them is as it should be.