post 1.65 debuff logs

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by some guy
Well I was able to get into one decent long fight today after the patch update. I felt like I was a real power hog with the new 50 Lifetap - which makes sense since it is higher power cost AND 5 points higher Body spec that I do not have over the Level 45; making my Focus Staff less effective.

On closer examination, I was able to get 23 spells off including a Quick Cast root over a 1:40 second fight before going OOM. I did not have Power Regen going.

Cursed Soul (24 AE Disease) - 5 casts
Imprison Spirit (38 AE Snare) - 3 casts
Banish Immunities (46 Debuff) - 5 casts
Essence Devourer (50 Lifetap) - 9 casts
Superior Leg Twisting (49 Root) -1 Quick Cast

I was fully buffed with 278 Intelligence and my nukes landed pretty hard. I never got off more than 2 nukes during a debuff, mostly from people running away or out of LOS.

Debuffed:

439 (+21)
406 (-31)
459 (+26)
427 (+16)
454 (+17)

No Debuffs:

222 (-222)
339 (-113)
347 (-116)
248 (-159)

I will have to see how I like this for a while before deciding whether or not to respec to lower Spirit to get rid of the Body variance and just nuke for less. I also took my 4 RPs from losing AOM and respecced them to Wild Arcana II. I want to see how it affects my AE Snare, AE Disease, and Body Debuffs.

Level 50 base lifedrain and base dd now have the same delve damage (this went live so I presume Mythic have realised that the self heal component on a lifedrain is of no value on a casted spell), so you can expect debuffing mana chanters to hit you for the same amount.

Overall effect looks more like having brought debuff chants/RMs down to pre-patch cabbie level more than a serious cabbie nerf (with the exception of reduced duration). Existing debuff cabbies care to comment?

We should also note that cabbies enjoy a marginally faster cast time on the lifetap than chanters/rms do on the dd.

 

[)nick(]

Hmmm I guess people were over exaggerating in my thread then. These DD values seemed a lot higher compared to what Danya mentioned.

I thought debuffs couldn't make a chars resists go below 0 come 1.65?

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by -nicolas-
I thought debuffs couldn't make a chars resists go below 0 come 1.65?

They can still go below 0, but now having a resist buff no longer means you get hurt more by debuff-nukers than without one

 

[Pin]

From what I can tell, a debuff nuker is still _always_ better-off casting his debuff than not. As the target's resists increase, this becomes more apparent.

Also, the highest resist you're ever likely to see about 75% on high RR hibs with BAoD up (which has been quite heavily nerfed, so will be rare). In this case you'll have problems getting off 2 nukes after debuff (but it's still better than this case previously giving 101% resist ), and it _may_ be best to spirit debuff first, then body debuff, then nuke.


So, a debuff-nuker still nukes better with debuff, than without. I also believe against higher-than-average resists, a spirit cabby will nuke harder than a body cabby. Against low resists, the body cabby appears to be better-off though, especially at low RR when the spirit cabby has higher variance and powercost.


To me it looks like the gap between debuff-nuking and plain spec-nuking has been removed/reduced enough for Mythic to progress and look further at caster damage in general and/or other caster issues.

 

[Solstice]

/delete Pumuki

and keep leveling my FoTM merc i guess...

 

[Solstice]

/whine

I'm thinking about respeccing back to matter but...

As a lvl 46 spirit cabbie, with second best body debuff i can nuke for 400(+150) on orange cons using base lifetap (with dex and acuity buff). I usually don't need to recast debuff, 15 secs is enough to chop down any target on regular PvE groups (i.e. AC pbaoe or CC groups).

With 1.65, debuffs will have a duration of 8 secs, (4 secs in RvR maybe), that means in RvR we'll need to spam debuffs (castable) while nuking. I think our output dmg in that situation is hugely nerfed.

If they gonna nerf debuffs they should give some love to spirit cabbies Spirit Line. What's the point on going high spirit spec now? To have an uber pet? AE snare root?.

In the other hand, Matter Line is just boring, I used to be a matter cabbie til 39. got bored of getting aggro off pet with DoTs, got bored of running everytime everywhere. In RvR this get worse, we can't use AoE DoT or we'll ruin every mezz, nearsight doesn't work with spreadheal and focus dmg shield will get nerfed too, it won't work again high level mobs (bye bye drop farming). What's the point on going high level matter? to farm cash at lyonnese? keep attack/defence?

What's the point on rolling a cabbie these days?

/whine off

 

[Exinferis]

Originally posted by Solstice
What's the point on rolling a cabbie these days?

there is none

 

[Belomar]

It's not as bad as I thought. Going to have to wait to see first-hand how it works, but I'm hoping I'm a realm rank higher by the time the patch hits us, so it shouldn't be so bad.

/dances

 

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by Pin
To me it looks like the gap between debuff-nuking and plain spec-nuking has been removed/reduced enough for Mythic to progress and look further at caster damage in general and/or other caster issues.

True for chanters and RMs, but spec cabbie lifetap is only delve 174 (vs 179 in the baseline), this means today the only thing a spec nuke cabbie has over a debuff nuke cabbie is better radius on aoe disease.

 

[Belomar]

Well, I look at it from the positive side. Playing an underplayed, underperforming class means two things: (1) you get to be special and have the chance to excel despite deficiencies in your class (i.e. it's a nice challenge), and (2) you have a better-than-average chance of getting some Mythic lubbing.

 

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by Belomar
you get to be special

Awww.

You were always special Belomar.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
True for chanters and RMs, but spec cabbie lifetap is only delve 174 (vs 179 in the baseline), this means today the only thing a spec nuke cabbie has over a debuff nuke cabbie is better radius on aoe disease.

Specced to 45+XX body you nuke harder with the same 179DD baseline than specced 24+XX body.

If by 'today' you mean 1.62, then yes the body cabby doesn't nuke harder than a spirit cabby due to the debuff greatly overhauling the difference. If you mean 1.65, then I'm not convinced, particularly at low RR.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
Awww.

You were always special Belomar.

And I hope he doesn't take that as a compliment

 

[Belomar]

Don't worry, I do.

 

[old.Zeikerd]

I'm a debuff cabby so I can comment on this.
First of all:
Debuff only lasts 2 nukes (maybe 3) which is never enough to finish someone off, 4 seconds is rediculous.
Second, the power consumption is alot higher, because:
1 need to debuff more because its only a few seconds
2 power on spell is more
3 level of spell is higher so focus staff has even less impact

These things considered, it's only usefull to cast the debuff if you have the last debuff. The 15 en 30% debuff will only lower your dps.

As it is now, I nuke consistant for 460 when buffed with MoM3. And I can get around 5-7 nukes off before debuff wears off.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Zeikerd
I'm a debuff cabby so I can comment on this.
First of all:
Debuff only lasts 2 nukes (maybe 3) which is never enough to finish someone off, 4 seconds is rediculous.

One could argue that 1500 damage in under 4seconds is quite a lot from 1 person to 1 target And remember yo uhave pet damage, and errrr... the rest of the group to assist

Originally posted by old.Zeikerd
Second, the power consumption is alot higher, because:
1 need to debuff more because its only a few seconds
2 power on spell is more
3 level of spell is higher so focus staff has even less impact

Base powercost is 33 instead of 29. For example, say you have 40 total body spec then you'll use 29 vs 25 power per nuke due to focus - 16% more power on nukes.

Originally posted by old.Zeikerd
These things considered, it's only usefull to cast the debuff if you have the last debuff. The 15 en 30% debuff will only lower your dps.

If you only have the 15 or 30% debuff, then you presumably have higher Body spec, so higher base damage, less variance, and better focus for less power use. My guess is that there is not a huge difference in the end.

Originally posted by old.Zeikerd
As it is now, I nuke consistant for 460 when buffed with MoM3. And I can get around 5-7 nukes off before debuff wears off.

And on that note, anybody else notice they raised the delve on ALL baseline body lifetaps to be equivalent with DDs?

 

[old.Ramas]

I assume ruby pet damage is heat (the spell effect sets the target's head on fire, but the spell cast animation is an ice dd)?

If it were body/matter/spirit, then debuffing both your own and pet pet damage could get interesting.

 

[old.Ramas]

And on that note, anybody else notice they raised the delve on ALL baseline body lifetaps to be equivalent with DDs?

Who other than mages get a body baseline liefetap?

Foresters still only have lvl 45 164 delve afaik. (and that's energy)

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
Who other than mages get a body baseline liefetap?

Foresters still only have lvl 45 164 delve afaik. (and that's energy)

errrr.. nevermind me. nerf skim-reading patch notes to get to savage nerfs

 

[Belomar]

Hmm, Cabalists on the VN Boards are now coming back with their impressions of the new patch, and it appears the leading (high-RR) spirit Cabalists think that the new patch is indeed an improvement over earlier patches:

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=57620989&replies=9

 

[old.Zeikerd]

Originally posted by Pin
One could argue that 1500 damage in under 4seconds is quite a lot from 1 person to 1 target And remember yo uhave pet damage, and errrr... the rest of the group to assist

Even a buffed pet does very little damage compared to nukes and tanks.

Base powercost is 33 instead of 29. For example, say you have 40 total body spec then you'll use 29 vs 25 power per nuke due to focus - 16% more power on nukes.

And 16% is not alot? Baseline nukes allready drain alot of power as it is.

If you only have the 15 or 30% debuff, then you presumably have higher Body spec, so higher base damage, less variance, and better focus for less power use. My guess is that there is not a huge difference in the end.

Tests have shown that the 15 and 30% debuff lower your dps.

 

[old.Zeikerd]

Originally posted by Belomar
Hmm, Cabalists on the VN Boards are now coming back with their impressions of the new patch, and it appears the leading (high-RR) spirit Cabalists think that the new patch is indeed an improvement over earlier patches:

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=57620989&replies=9

There is 1 RR9 cabalist with MotA 4 and MoM4 who thinks he does better than before. But there are 1000 RR2-5 cabalists which don't have MotA 1 even, so they wont be able to take advantage of the debuff as Holy One does.

 

[old.Ramas]

The MotA4 guy is dishing out 12% more nukes than MotA0.

12% of 4-6 is a small number.

 

[-Wedge-]

Well, been playing a Spirit Cabby for 2 days now... Got my old Matter cabby out of the closet and respec'd to spirit for the fun of it...

Its fun... I guess you can do some nice damage on your own...

But now here it comes... I was duo'ing with a sorc friend... And he was using the 35 spec-dd... With that we opened a whole can of whoop-arse...

This (imho) is where the true power of a spirit cabablist lies... Not from his own damage, but the fact that the class thats also present in the group (75% of the time) uses the same damage type...

Heck, when he got the time he was nuking the same targets as mine... They died so fast they had problems hitting instant key...

350-420 damage on my life-tap... 502 on his DD... Every 1.5s...
(I'm only RR4 with it, so a huge variance as my body isnt maxed yet either)

Then add to this that you have AE-Disease, a nice interrupt pet, weak nearsight... I've been pondering why I never respec'd earlier...

 

[ScarletPinp]

Originally posted by Belomar
It's not as bad as I thought. Going to have to wait to see first-hand how it works, but I'm hoping I'm a realm rank higher by the time the patch hits us, so it shouldn't be so bad.

that sounds like something a savage would say imo

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
Then add to this that you have AE-Disease, a nice interrupt pet, weak nearsight... I've been pondering why I never respec'd earlier...

Welcome, brother.