Population decline - can anything be done?

Castus

Can't get enough of FH
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Advertising an old game would be difficult in the Uk if it had already had a big campaign in the beginning but it did`nt/has`nt.Lots of my friends play online pc games and had never heard of DAOC until i told them about it.The majority of people who play the game i`d guess was more through word of mouth rather than seeing an advert or article in a mag.Theres the new expansion out soon and i`ve yet to see any advertising in Nottingham computer stores or any magazines.
 

Esselinithia

Fledgling Freddie
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Gahn: You know GOA, you know their most dedicated fans, and you see what happened.

They blame unhappy people. But hey they are left. Yet, even if they play on another servers, they are the problems on excal/pryd... Yeah right.

The slow decline is universal (there is a lifecyvle for any kind of product) the problem is: new expansions are essentially new products. How they work elsewhere and how they work on these 2 servers? And slow decline isn't losing 50% of customers in a year, that is different not only in its rate, and how expansions, january, etc can help it, but also the reasons behind it are different. Very different.

Do you want to return to play with them on GOA servers? No :) They have Low pop, bad community, more and more people unhappy with them (err... more whine by their terms), let them enjoy the benefits of it, and enjoy what we have elsewhere.
 

MaCaBr3

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Over the last year, the population has dropped considerably and to me one of the mayor issues was the just the overal crap mentality of the players on the server. Everyone is bashing everyone, as a newbie you can't do anything right and it takes ages before you ever get invited into PUGs.

It's just more fun to play on US servers or other servers and I don't see why I should come back.
 

Flimgoblin

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Gahn said:
U learn to read what people posts, i didn't attacked any1 bar Sollac who attacked me 1st.
And "my" playerbase is healthy with almost 3000 peeps prime time, this alone shows that we did the right choice.

umm your first post in this thread contained:

U are only a clueless whiner for Goa and some blind part of the playerbase -.-

selective memory?
 

Flimgoblin

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Esselinithia said:
Do you want to return to play with them on GOA servers? No :) They have Low pop, bad community, more and more people unhappy with them (err... more whine by their terms), let them enjoy the benefits of it, and enjoy what we have elsewhere.


Umm, he still plays on the GOA servers - Avalon to be precise....
 

Gahn

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Flimgoblin said:
umm your first post in this thread contained:



selective memory?

Erm

Gahn said:
Requiel will come and tell ya that's all fine and dandy on Dyvet so what's the point? U are only a clueless whiner for Goa and some blind part of the playerbase -.-

Comprehension problems?
U are only a .. for Goa and some blind part of the playerbase, it means that GOA and that part of the playerbase thinks that.
Read carefully peeps -.-
 

Gahn

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Flimgoblin said:
Umm, he still plays on the GOA servers - Avalon to be precise....

Way better than Dyvet atm am afraid.
 

Bahumat

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Remember: "Eccentricity is confered by others, and never cultivated by oneself"
 

rampant

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Lotr is due for release in april - so that is going to take even more players away
 

kivik

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Awarkle said:
ive heard stories of people getting to 50 then going out to rvr adding on a fight and getting flamed for it .

Is that so?

I've heard stories of people getting to 50 and then head out to RvR looking for fair fights, gets added on and recieves the reply when asking why he added: "LOL its RvR, fuck off to CS if you don't like it!"...

What's the difference?

Oh wait, forgot only 1v1 or 8v8 guys are really lame flamers!
 

Bahumat

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rampant said:
Lotr is due for release in april - so that is going to take even more players away

The thought alone makes me micturate :(
 

Esselinithia

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kivik: Because it is Realm vs Realm
Not Guild vs Guild
Not Group vs Group
Not Duo vs Duo
Not Soloer vs Soloer
But Realm vs Realm. If you forgot it, and question others why they want to enjoy it (make comments about them, etc) then you get a reply stating it is Realm vs Realm and not Group vs Group, and not Player vs Player either. For Group vs Group, Guild vs Guild, Player vs Player fights there is a PVP server. And if you made rude comment, you can't expect the other side to be polite.
 

Coldbeard

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I thought most people on this board, including GoA, are denying the impact of population decline.

Esselinithia said:
kivik: Because it is Realm vs Realm
Not Guild vs Guild
Not Group vs Group
Not Duo vs Duo
Not Soloer vs Soloer
But Realm vs Realm. If you forgot it, and question others why they want to enjoy it (make comments about them, etc) then you get a reply stating it is Realm vs Realm and not Group vs Group, and not Player vs Player either. For Group vs Group, Guild vs Guild, Player vs Player fights there is a PVP server. And if you made rude comment, you can't expect the other side to be polite.

Might want to change that broken record.
 

brad

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Sollac said:
RVR is boring with mids hiding as they relic less, but we expect that....
as they cant fight without them. That is so lame tbh...its a game and relics dont imbalance too much.....I still die to casters....and well played tanks.:puke:

.

All part of the plan, if albs got no one to kill, the relic keeps wont be level 10 as usual, without Bp's you can't sustain a high level keep. Easy thing for mids is stop rvr'ing and well get relics back when albs got no Bp's left. :england:

With mids having a smaller rvr population than albs so we can't take a level 10 keep prime time v albs so whats the point? There is none. You keep the relics and we wait for the right time to get them back. Until then who cares your just whining as you can't zerg the mids as usual as we don't bother doing anything and going out.:kissit:
 

Punishment

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Only 2 things need to be done imo ...

1. Advertise Advertise Advertise ... get 1 or 2 primetime spots on Sky One of Channel 4 for a 15 second cleverly made commercial to attract Green players who would have gone to WoW or Everguest etc ...

2. Bring the game back to basics ... make it possible to have a character ready to RvR within a week of 3-4h a night xp/questing ... maybe 2 weeks , as i feel Daoc is much too complicated atm with Ml's/Cl quests/Encounters(for items that suddenly get nerfed :rolleyes: )

Its likely been said 100 times ... but its what has gotta be done ... if the old players who left come back ... well and good ... but to rely on that is just stupid and narrowminded ... out with the old and in with the new :D
 

Esselinithia

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Coldbeard: Realm vs Realm, compared to other forms of PVP, has one advantage: Shared goals can make a realm act as a community, the point where you make it group vs group, you lose this advantage.

In daoc there are various forms of community:
Groups (regular groups)
Guilds
Alliances
Realm

Each has shared goals, shared enemies, shared merits that can help to define and reinforce the community, and make people stay. If you change this structure because the server should be "yours" and your group of 8 has more fun this way and don't care for the others, you have to face the consequences.
 

Thorwyn

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1. Advertise Advertise Advertise ... get 1 or 2 primetime spots on Sky One of Channel 4 for a 15 second cleverly made commercial to attract Green players who would have gone to WoW or Everguest etc ...

Everybody keeps saying that. But I don´t quite believe, that advertising is the panacea for DAoC. First off, it´s pretty hard to advertise a 5 year old game, regardless of the ammount of AddOns and gfx rework and whatnot. DAoC looks great, but there is no way to hide it´s age.
The other thing is, that such a campaing is bloody expensive. And I mean BLOODY expensive. I`m not going into numbers now, but trust me, I know a little bit about the costs. Sure, all advertising has an effect. I`m sure that such a campaign would bring new players. But I`m not sure whether the new players are enough to compensate for the money. For some reason, the UK servers have always been "weaker" (in terms of numbers) than the GER or FR servers. Even at their absolute peak with 3000 people online, the numbers never even remotely reached the level of GER or FR (which is quite strange if you ask me, because I thought that the ENG servers would be the international melting pot, i.e. the server for anyone who´s NOT german or french.
And that´s the next thing you need to think about when you´re talking about advertising.... a good percentage of the Exc/Pry population is not from the UK (which means that an advertising campaign would only reach a fragment of the people). You can´t expect to populate the ENG servers with people from the UK.

2. Bring the game back to basics ... make it possible to have a character ready to RvR within a week of 3-4h a night xp/questing ... maybe 2 weeks , as i feel Daoc is much too complicated atm with Ml's/Cl quests/Encounters(for items that suddenly get nerfed )

I agree about the complexity, but I disagree about the acceleration of levelling. Yes, for a newbie, there are too many things to do and most of them requires a guild or even a medium zerg to accomplish. In my opinion, that´s one of the main obstacles at the moment. Everything in the game (except maybe a few selective but not absolutely neccessary things) should be possible with 1 full group. That´s the "unit" of the game and that´s how it should work. I`m not talking about the absolute ultimate gear or the great hammer of uberness, but the basic things like levelling, MLs and CLs MUST be possible.
It doesn´t need to be faster in my opinion though. Levelling and PvE is one fundamental part of the game. Remember your first few weeks in DAoC? So much to explore and to achieve. Reducing this step means to eliminate one part of the game.
 

Eithor

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Cluster servers, keep client language. I won't stay if language change though.

yeah, probably not so easy... But it IS possible. Would Goa try to fix it? Don't think so, not because Goa would be bad in anyway, but because they'll deem it too costly and time consuming to be worth the effort.

Very sad.

But if keeping english client or well language, it wouldn't bother me at all with 95% of the population talking (typing) in german or frensh, i'd group with english talking peeps anyway, or solo(meaning that german peeps will have their german client, and english-clustered peeps would have their english, so nothing would change for the german/frensh people).
 

Coldbeard

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Esselinithia said:
Coldbeard: Realm vs Realm, compared to other forms of PVP, has one advantage: Shared goals can make a realm act as a community, the point where you make it group vs group, you lose this advantage.

In daoc there are various forms of community:
Groups (regular groups)
Guilds
Alliances
Realm

Each has shared goals, shared enemies, shared merits that can help to define and reinforce the community, and make people stay. If you change this structure because the server should be "yours" and your group of 8 has more fun this way and don't care for the others, you have to face the consequences.

Realms should act as a one, and one community, but there has to be(and there always will be) various different fractions and groupings inside that community. Large parts of the problem, as of late-period daoc, has been the interaction between the different communities (fg vs fg players, "casual" players, roleplayers etc). The game, for many people, is growing old and repeative, hence many players have sought to expand their gaming experience by more hardcore and dedicated group vs group fighting including ruleset and policies. I think more people need to realise that after such a long period of playing the game, the game is not what it used to be, and you won't enjoy some aspects of it as much as you did when you were new to the game. That is why some people chose to dedicate themselves to full group vs full group action and make own rules to enhance their game experience, not because it is so leet and they are so much better off.

The casual gamers, even though that is a misleading name as most play quite regulary and the only real difference is the playstyle, are in conflict with the fg vs fg community, because of conflicting playstyles. These players are just playing the game as they think it is supposed to be played and they tend to think that the fg vs fg community's way of playing the game is not in accordance with realm vs realm or the spirit of the game whatever. They feel that the FG vs FG community is enforcing their playstyle on them, and they don' want to follow other rules than the basic RvR.

I don't think any of these communities wants to change the whole server to their playstyle, but they want to be able to play their way and they want their playstyle to be respected. I think there are some parts of the FG vs FG community that needs to be more tolerant and show more respect for those that don't want to play the way they want, and I think that the casual gamers need to understand why some people chose to make a ruleset of their own and a playstyle of their own, and respect that. I also think both "sides" benefit from each other, a healthy server is a server with many different communities and groups alive and kickin'.

THAT BEING SAID ...

Maybe more important is the reckless behaviour and total disregard for other players large parts of the remaining cluster populace has been showing. It is like some players need to prove a point of how they refuse to just show some respect to others by just the simplest form of common sense. Some people act like the world would END if they just left that tense 1 v 1 fight alone. Some people feel the urge to MUST add on a fight between two groups because there is nothing saying you can't do it, and of course it is in coordinance with the oh holy spirit of the game. Every enemy must be killed, at every cost, always. Some people have no other goals than to get as much RPs as possible at whatever cost, nothing else matters.The fact that you play versus other players, other people is hardly a matter. I am not obliged to respect any of my enemies, so why should I. Personally this kind of attitude, and the sheer magnitude of it was largely the reason for my departure from the game.


Maybe I lost track on main issue but bare with me :)
(Sorry for long post, I was just in mood for writing)
 

Zede

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Eithor said:
Cluster servers, keep client language. I won't stay if language change though.

yeah, probably not so easy... But it IS possible. Would Goa try to fix it? Don't think so, not because Goa would be bad in anyway, but because they'll deem it too costly and time consuming to be worth the effort.

Very sad.

But if keeping english client or well language, it wouldn't bother me at all with 95% of the population talking (typing) in german or frensh, i'd group with english talking peeps anyway, or solo(meaning that german peeps will have their german client, and english-clustered peeps would have their english, so nothing would change for the german/frensh people).

In rvr, its really no problem what so ever in German.

Its getting templated thats the problem, l I knew absolutely no German at all, with a little help from your friends it becomes easy.
 

Gamah

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kivik said:
Is that so?

I've heard stories of people getting to 50 and then head out to RvR looking for fair fights, gets added on and recieves the reply when asking why he added: "LOL its RvR, fuck off to CS if you don't like it!"...

What's the difference?

Oh wait, forgot only 1v1 or 8v8 guys are really lame flamers!

What boring stories you hear.
 

Esselinithia

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Coldbeard: I think there are 3 problems:

1st: Siege RP and keep repair rewards, etc are still low, and DAOC would benefit from a revamp of siege and keep upgrade system for more options. It would keep siege people happy, and they would have a chance to advance without visiting places far away from keeps.

2nd: for fg vs fg, you can stay away from keeps, and hope you won't encounter zergs, since they have a valid reason to attack you, or your enemies or both. If it works play according to your ideals, if you run into adds, zerg, etc. you won't be lucky, but can accept it. There are some areas that are not so good for zergs, adds, etc.

3rd: PVE and PVP rewards shouldn't extend each other, but should be alternative to each other. For PVP people it is boring to ML, for PVE people it is boring to farm RP, when people yell at you for adding on their fight.

About adds: Some adds are RP leeching soloers, duoers, etc. They are annoying, like many FG people, if they add, that is bad.

If you fight close to towers, etc. and some PVE people who need to earn RP even if they don't like RVR adds on your fight while doing missions to get RP that is a different story. They accept your AFKing on many ML raids. You accept that they added, and they can't change much, they are as useful as a lucky crit :)

If a zerg who is here to fight RVR (sieges, etc. in an organized BG) and you say: "whoops, the relic raid added on our fight" you can accept that too as a natural thing, and hope it is rare. And feel free to add on their fights :)

Some adds and some FG people hurt the realm level of community and other levels as well. :) It is possible to play FG vs FG even if you care for realm level community too :)
 

Jesmin

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GoA servers are very much alive. I think the Ava-Lyo cluster even eclipces (sp?) the US servers in population sometimes.
 

eble@work

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Jesmin said:
GoA servers are very much alive. I think the Ava-Lyo cluster even eclipces (sp?) the US servers in population sometimes.


I should have mentioned from the start this was just about the English servers I wouldn't suugest the other GOA servers suffer in the same way we do. (except the poor Spanish/Italian ones)

Funny when the launch date for LOTM was released almost on auto pilot I went and paid my A$33 (Australian Dollar's) for it from DL Gamer, I'm actually sitting thinking that was a waste of cash and I'm on the verge of quitting instead.

I was hoping to ride out DAOC until WAR was released, but to be honest it actually seems more hassle than this game is worth. (I'm awaiting what GOA will/might do with the EU English cluster before making a decision).

Option 1 is sell my Euro accts and move to the US or

Option 2, I'll just buy a PS3 in March and find something else to do.

When a game becomes more of a chore than fun it's time to move along :)

Eble
 

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