Poor, abused Hooligans?

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Well, I just read an article about the supposed abuse of Hooligans by police forces during/after football games. Interesting.

Police is supposedly aggravating the "fans" by confronting them on the way to the game by appearing in "para-military style fashion" ie riot gear.

Scientists of the University of Liverpool suggest that Police forces at the EM 2004 shall approach the "fans" in regular uniforms, chat to them and - of course - smile the smile.

Linkage and some more [linkage.

Remember the last big riots in France where "fans" beat a cop to pulp? He should have just smiled more, the bastard.

 

[Testin da Cable]

just to add a warning that it's pop-up heaven in those links and my virus scanner went bonkers. sorry.

 

[mank!]

Inside the ground, police often do aggravate supporters. At a match in Bournemouth a couple of weeks ago, the match had just started and police in riot gear came out and lined up along the side of the pitch meaning the first three or four rows couldn't see the match at all. We had sold out our allocation, so they couldn't just get up and move elsewhere and if they tried to stand up the police would have gone mental about it.

It's just a bit fucking stupid really, police aren't concerned with our safety or anyone elses, they just want to throw their weight around.

oh, and of course: footballs fans = hooligans? Fuck off.

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by Testin da Cable
just to add a warning that it's pop-up heaven in those links and my virus scanner went bonkers. sorry.

Hmmm... weird - not a single pop-up here. And I use Ewul Empire's IE6.

 

[Testin da Cable]

mine is (cries) customised ie5.5 and it goes bananas :/

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Customized as in addware riddled?

 

[Testin da Cable]

tbh I have no idea what BigCompany has done to it....but it's not done any good I kid you not :/

 

[Gumbo]

We are far too concious of human rights when dealing with the scum that are hooligans. There really should be a facility to just say, 'If you don't want to be locked up for three days without trial, walk away now.' Anyone still within a hundred yards of the officer making that statement, after a minute or two gets corralled in a very basic facility for three days.

Also when you have video footage of people, clearly identifiable swinging furniture and hurling things at police, why are they not locked up for a few years?

It seems they normally get a bit of a fine, and an unenforcable ban from that away ground they were at. Fuckin useless.

Have the British fans been advised not to travel to Turkey by the way?

 

[Cdr]

I believe the FA aren't selling any tickets and have turned down their allocation. However, I read that the Turkish football governing body has offered to sell tickets to English fans. So I think the official word from the FA is 'Dont go'. But that wont stop people.

 

[Gumbo]

When they get butchered by Turkish Hooligans I will have no sympathy for them then.

 

[mank!]

Originally posted by Gumbo
When they get butchered by Turkish Hooligans I will have no sympathy for them then.

Even innocent fans who went out there to support their team, and had no interest in causing any trouble?

The FA haven't really explored any other avenues with this, just said 'you can't travel'. They could organise travel for fans and get them escorts from the airport to the ground and from the ground to the airport again after the match, rather than letting a few hundred drunken fans run amok.

 

[Ash!]

The police certainley do agravate the situation. I was at a freindly a few years ago with Man Utd & Celtic. It was just after the IRA bomb in central Manchester. Now Utd fans and Celtic fans have always had a good rapport over the years. Outside the game, both sets of fans singing, dancing and having the odd drink or two.

Inside the ground the Atmosphere was completely changed. Celtic fans had one end of the ground designated to them. When inside the police had reserved the entire 2 back, front and side rows.

During the course of the game they proceeded to march from the back then to the side then the front then the side then the back row every ten minutes. I dont think you have to be a football hoolie to let that kind of thing really annoy you. Just aggrevated the whole situation without reason

 

[Gumbo]

If they are told not to go by their sports governing body, then they shouldn't go, innocent or not.

And if they are stupid enough to go anyway then their inevitable murder will just remove a few more idiots from the human race, win-win.

Yep maybe there should be some organised travel, but I would imagine the insurance costs are prohibitive, as short of employing armed Ex SAS guards, how do you protect three or four coaches from several thousand Turkish Yobs.

 

[mank!]

Originally posted by Gumbo
If they are told not to go by their sports governing body, then they shouldn't go, innocent or not.

And if they are stupid enough to go anyway then their inevitable murder will just remove a few more idiots from the human race, win-win.

Yep maybe there should be some organised travel, but I would imagine the insurance costs are prohibitive, as short of employing armed Ex SAS guards, how do you protect three or four coaches from several thousand Turkish Yobs.

It's attitude like yours that really annoys me. It's inveitable people are going to travel, doesn't mean they deserve to get stabbed because they're football fans, does it?

 

[Ash!]

^^ What he said

 

[Gumbo]

If they're that stupid....

There's plenty of games they can go to, surely they can miss one match to a place where no-one can guaruntee their safety.

Surely any right minded fan who knows there is a bloody good chance they're going to get killed if they go to watch football in that country, would just say, 'We'll give this one a miss eh?'.

Those that go anyway, against the advice of the FA and the Home office are either really fucking dim, or going to look for trouble.

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by mank!
It's attitude like yours that really annoys me. It's inveitable people are going to travel, doesn't mean they deserve to get stabbed because they're football fans, does it?

The problem is, that most English and German football fans travelling abroad actually are going there with the intention of kicking shit around...

 

[7th]

Originally posted by Gumbo
If they're that stupid....

There's plenty of games they can go to, surely they can miss one match to a place where no-one can guaruntee their safety.

Surely any right minded fan who knows there is a bloody good chance they're going to get killed if they go to watch football in that country, would just say, 'We'll give this one a miss eh?'.

Those that go anyway, against the advice of the FA and the Home office are either really fucking dim, or going to look for trouble.

exactly what he said... is a football match really worth risking your life over? no. if you're stupid enough to answer yes, then you deserve what's coming to you.

7th

 

[mank!]

Originally posted by Gumbo
There's plenty of games they can go to, surely they can miss one match to a place where no-one can guaruntee their safety.

Yes, but England fans, just like fans of Accrington Stanley, will want to support their club wherever they are. If the FA were at all bothered, they could do a lot to guarantee these people's safety but instead they're trying to cure a headache with a sledgehammer.

Originally posted by Gumbo
Those that go anyway, against the advice of the FA and the Home office are either really fucking dim, or going to look for trouble.

If my club was playing a match in Turkey, I'd go. I don't think I'm dim, and I'm sure as hell not looking for trouble.

I'm fed up of people equating football fans to bald, fat, drunk, burberry wearing violent thugs. The thugs are a minority.

 

[toneh]

Is football more important then life or death?

OF CAUSE NOT



ITS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THEN THAT

 

[mank!]

Originally posted by Uncle Sick(tm)
The problem is, that most English and German football fans travelling abroad actually are going there with the intention of kicking shit around...

Complete bollocks.

 

[7th]

Originally posted by mank!
I'm fed up of people equating football fans to bald, fat, drunk, burberry wearing violent thugs. The thugs are a minority.

hey, we're not the ones doing the stereotyping, yes the thugs are the minority and yes they are a pain to the real supporters, but sadly, how do you tell a couple of thousand turkey fans that?

I'd take a wild stab in the dark and say that i bet the majority of europeans believe english football fans are ALL hooligans... just because we see it one way, doesn't mean everyone else does too

7th

 

[Gumbo]

I'm not saying that the people who go to Turkey for this match aren't genuine fans, I'm sure a lot are. It's just that the Turks are so up for the trouble this time around that you'd be a fool to go, or happy to accept the consequences.

In either case I cannot raise an ounce of sympathy for the people who get hurt. They will make the choice to go there, on their heads be it.

 

[7th]

actually, let me put it another way...

if i told you to stick your head in an oven, would you do it? no.

if i told you to stick your head in an oven to support your football team, would you do it?...

7th

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by mank!
Complete bollocks.

That's part of a controversial discussion.

You are a fan - contra police etc. (see earlier statements).
I give a rats arse about football - just fueling the argument.

But it's a well known fact that English and German hooligans are the absolute worst when it comes to sports violence.

Just like English and German tourists being the absolute worst when it comes to drinking, sand castle building, towel throwing and being shits in general.

 

[mank!]

Originally posted by 7th
hey, we're not the ones doing the stereotyping, yes the thugs are the minority and yes they are a pain to the real supporters, but sadly, how do you tell a couple of thousand turkey fans that?

I'd take a wild stab in the dark and say that i bet the majority of europeans believe english football fans are ALL hooligans... just because we see it one way, doesn't mean everyone else does too

7th

So it's okay for non-British people to consider us all violent hooligans? I don't see your point, the majority of people who either don't follow football or hate it consider all football fans to be thugs. Especially the English.

Yes, we have a reputation. No, we're not all thugs.

 

[mank!]

Originally posted by Gumbo
I'm not saying that the people who go to Turkey for this match aren't genuine fans, I'm sure a lot are. It's just that the Turks are so up for the trouble this time around that you'd be a fool to go, or happy to accept the consequences.

In either case I cannot raise an ounce of sympathy for the people who get hurt. They will make the choice to go there, on their heads be it.

I'm not asking you for their sympathy, I'm just surprised that you'd be perfectly happy for innocent people to get stabbed for watching football.

If they're causing trouble and inciting the Turks and get stabbed then that's fair enough, I hate hooligans as much as the next man.

 

[mank!]

Originally posted by 7th
actually, let me put it another way...

if i told you to stick your head in an oven, would you do it? no.

if i told you to stick your head in an oven to support your football team, would you do it?...

7th

How would sticking my head in a oven be supporting my football team? I realise it's supposed to be metaphorical, but it's shit.

 

[Will]

English football fans really do have a bad reputation. The question of the rightness/wrongness of that isn't the point 7th was trying to make.

Weirdly enough, Rangers/Celtic fans have a terrible reputation, yet the Scotland travelling support has a great one. I have no idea why.

 

[mank!]

Originally posted by Uncle Sick(tm)
But it's a well known fact that English and German hooligans are the absolute worst when it comes to sports violence.

And the Dutch. My point is that the majority of people who will travel won't be looking for trouble and it's entirely unfair to tar them all as hooligans and say they deserve to be stabbed. Violence has no place in football, and more often than not it has fuck all to do with football, it's patriotism at this level.

That said, nine Welsh fans got arrested in Italy at the weekend. For beating up each other.