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Derric
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- #91
<gives Blixt a comfy hug as well> 
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Danya
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- #92
People XP at the rate they want to. Blaming us for your members leaving is nonsense. The reason they left is almost certainly one of two things:
1. DAoC wasn't the right game for them, some people just aren't MMORPG players in the end.
2. The designers of DAoC failed to cater to people who level faster than the majority, thus they ran out of content and quit. This seems quite likely, other than killing players repeatedly, DAoC has almost no high level content (even now, back in 1.36 it was much worse). Without players to kill there's not really much to do.
1. DAoC wasn't the right game for them, some people just aren't MMORPG players in the end.
2. The designers of DAoC failed to cater to people who level faster than the majority, thus they ran out of content and quit. This seems quite likely, other than killing players repeatedly, DAoC has almost no high level content (even now, back in 1.36 it was much worse). Without players to kill there's not really much to do.
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aethtemplar
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- #93
Yup ! That's why I chose to play DAoC rather than any other MMORPG. I didn't want to play a game where I'd never have any real chance of competing with kids, students and anyone else with lots more time on their hands than me. The level cap is probably the most important and valuable element of DAoC. It lets even casual gamers, given the right amount of time, get out there and feel they're making a difference. Long may it reign. As for high level content, I'm finding the game even more enjoyable since hitting 50, as I just hated the whole XPing treadmill and the frustrations and tensions of grouping etc. Bit of skirmishing, keep-taking, Guild hunts and, of course, plenty of roleplaying. Loving it !
That's two positive posts from me about DAoC today - do I win a prize ?
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old.Revz
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- #94
You've just summed up why the game is crap or heading that way for a lot of people. I am neither a kid nor a student but I like a challenge, by capping everything and making it impossible to progress after a certain point you remove the reason to keep playing for a lot of people.
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ivan_tribbiani
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- #95
But then again if the cap were removed, the levelling race would never end. It would be like Diablo to some extent where levels mean everything. Not precisely a way to improve the game imho.
If that were the reality of it, then i can see one Hibbie PBAOE everyone in bloody sight
Somebody left, yes. But at the end of the day the majority stayed behind <so far>.
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old.Aethelstan
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- #96
For anyone with the time and dedication to put in lots of hours, I can see why the level cap is frustrating. But without it, anyone who can't play those hours would soon be left behind, and would basically be destined to be easy prey for those with more time to play. Look at the first two months of DAoC when a particularly dedicated Midgard mob were hugely ahead of the other two realms and owned all the relics for months. Without the level cap, that would have gone on forever ! Mythic have tried to create a post-levelling end-game with realm points and realm abilities, and I think that's a fair compromise allowing progression without creating an unbridgeable gap between hardcore gamers and casual gamers. I wouldn't necessarily expect you to agree !
There's many different types of gamer (I think the type you're talking about are high-end "achievers" or something), and when I was looking at MMORPGs to see which might best suit someone like me with a low boredom threshold, unpredictable hours but a desire to be able to compete at the highest level, DAoC seemed tailor-made. UO and EQ looked nightmarish to me as I knew there was no way I was ever going to ever be able to amount to anything because I simply couldn't put the hours in.
If you're right, it'll be sad to see a lot of the "achievers" go, although I expect many would have moved on to the next MMORPG anyway in order to achieve there what they did on DAoC. But for the casual gamer, DAoC is still the best MMORPG out there IMO.
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VidX
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- #97
Originally posted by ivan_tribbiani
If that were the reality of it, then i can see one Hibbie PBAOE everyone in bloody sight
You mean, it doesn't happen already? *shock*
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VidX
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- #98
pbaoe does have it's drawbacks in RvR. Because I am specced mana, that leaves me with baseline DD's only, so I am pretty useless outside of keep defence.
In open RvR, the only way I can do proper caster-level damage is to pbaoe, meaning I have to be in the middle of the fighting. Now, being a caster that means a quick death (even with 1400hp), so I try to maximise the damage with cast, QC cast. Though it leaves me without RP (being dead and all), my group gets a few.
In open RvR, the only way I can do proper caster-level damage is to pbaoe, meaning I have to be in the middle of the fighting. Now, being a caster that means a quick death (even with 1400hp), so I try to maximise the damage with cast, QC cast. Though it leaves me without RP (being dead and all), my group gets a few.
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old.Chavez
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- #99
I kinda like the lvl cap, altleast we fight eachother on even terms then.
Besides since the game is about RvR and not PvE they shouldnt allow XPing to take forever.
I'd like to see the attribute caps removed for instance (200capped str for all highlanders etc etc - boring!).
And give frontier keeps more meaning (which i believe mythic is looking into)
Besides since the game is about RvR and not PvE they shouldnt allow XPing to take forever.
I'd like to see the attribute caps removed for instance (200capped str for all highlanders etc etc - boring!).
And give frontier keeps more meaning (which i believe mythic is looking into)
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Danya
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- #100
Level cap is not the issue. But the ability to easily cap all your primary attributes with epic armour (which is very easily obtained) and a few drops means that after about 1 week of level 50 there's only RvR left really.
The point about all the achievers etc. leaving... if one section of your community goes then the entire community tends to collapse. Read Richard Bartle's paper on it, the crux is, online games of this nature need a balance. Without a balance of player types the community will rapidly collapse. DAoC discourages achievers and explorers with it's lack of content and any real goals over level 50. Lack of achievers discourages the killers (via boredom) and so they leave. Eventually you end up with just the socialisers and they run out of things to talk about (mainly they discuss killers and achievers) and hence the whole communty spirals into the ground.
The point about all the achievers etc. leaving... if one section of your community goes then the entire community tends to collapse. Read Richard Bartle's paper on it, the crux is, online games of this nature need a balance. Without a balance of player types the community will rapidly collapse. DAoC discourages achievers and explorers with it's lack of content and any real goals over level 50. Lack of achievers discourages the killers (via boredom) and so they leave. Eventually you end up with just the socialisers and they run out of things to talk about (mainly they discuss killers and achievers) and hence the whole communty spirals into the ground.
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old.Aethelstan
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- #101
Hehe - don't kid yerself. Most of what we socializers do is bitch and whine about each other !
Anyway, these gaming categories aren't as clear cut as all that. You can be a socialiser-achiever (me, apparently), and a socializer-explorer etc. I suppose socializer-killer is less likely. I'm not sure I buy Bartle's theories. They're fine on paper, where you can explain the behaviour of set groups according to a theory. But real people rarely if ever fit set groups, and so the theories collapse.
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old.Bubble
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- #102
next patch when debuffs become insta cast you do alot more damage
debuffing 20% heat resistance then nuking while there stunned for 9 secs does alot of damage
debuffing 20% heat resistance then nuking while there stunned for 9 secs does alot of damage
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Danya
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- #103
*Raises an eyebrow at Aeth* Sure I'm the one kidding myself here? Basically if the playerbase is socialiser dominated you end up with IRC with avatars, that's not going to last long as it's easier to just sit in IRC.
And I realise it's not cut and dried, but if someone is mainly a socialiser then they're going to bias the game towards the socialiser category (and so on for other other categories).
You may not buy into Bartle's theories, but there is significant evidence that they work, moreso than someone saying "But real people rarely if ever fit set groups, and so the theories collapse." The point isn't to fit people into groups, it's to categorise aspects of people's play style. It's very rare for someone to be entirely in one group (for example according to the test I'm fairly balanced), however unless you can satisfy all groups people will be left with a growing feeling of dissatisfaction with the game. People could have a relatively low interest in achieving / exploring, but if that aspect of the game is not there they will have that nagging feeling that it's missing and it will spoil the entire game for them. Sure they'll have their fun moments, but the overall experience is let down but the flaw.
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old.Aethelstan
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- #104
Really, I said it mockingly, but it's true. Bartle's Achievers and Killers like to think that Socialisers talk about them. It's part of what they see as their achievements - a reputation. But Socializers largely don't. Bartle himself is contradictory and acknowledges this fact even after he claims earlier that Socialisers do talk about the others. Every now and then, a Killer might achieve brief notoriety, such as Sinister did early on. But in a MMORPG with thousands of players, rather than a MUD with a few dozen, the socialisers talk about those they socialise with.
In fact, much of his paper is contradictory. Early on, for example, he claims :
"...too many killers will drive away the achievers who form their main prey; this in turn will mean that killers will stop playing, as they'll have no worthwhile victims (players considered by killers to be explorers generally don't care about death, and players considered to be socialisers are too easy to pose much of a challenge)"
Yet later on, he writes :
"a game with fewer socialisers means the killers will seek out more achievers" ; and
"Killers regard socialisers with undisguised glee. It's not that socialisers are in any way a challenge, as usually they will be pushovers in combat; rather, socialisers feel a dreadful hurt when attacked (especially if it results in the loss of their persona), and it is this which killers enjoy about it. Besides, killers tend to like to have a bad reputation, and if there's one way to get people to talk about you, it's to attack a prominent socialiser... "
Bartle's theory is stronger in places than others. Certainly there's a direct relationship between Killers and socialisers. Killers are essentially parasites and can't exist without something to feed off. But the relationship doesn't work the other way. Socialisers can live without Killers, and indeed seek to do so. In fact, socializers can live without explorers or achievers too. Bartle also tried to claim achievers need explorers, but that's very weak. Most exploiters, for example, are achievers trying to get an edge, not explorers doing it out of intellectual curiosity. Achieving is what drives exploring.
Bartle's argument that a good MUD needs to balance the needs of all groups depends entirely on the strength of his argument about the groups being interdependent. In fact, if you strip away this obvious untruth, you find that a MUD can support just socialisers, or just achievers (my experience is that most typical achievers are entirely happy competing against each other, and don't need socialisers to boast to. The only type he describes - and fortunately the rarest type - which can't exist in isolation, is the Killer. The level cap (and the zero XP penalty for frontier death) essentially removes the Killer's fun. That's why I'm here !
I don't think Bartle's theory is any more scientific or accurate than the sort of questionnaire posed in women's magazines which ask multi-choice questions and then tells you you're : a sex maniac/ red hot/ normal/ sexless based on the results !
Hmm. Enough gobbledegook. Hometime.
In fact, much of his paper is contradictory. Early on, for example, he claims :
"...too many killers will drive away the achievers who form their main prey; this in turn will mean that killers will stop playing, as they'll have no worthwhile victims (players considered by killers to be explorers generally don't care about death, and players considered to be socialisers are too easy to pose much of a challenge)"
Yet later on, he writes :
"a game with fewer socialisers means the killers will seek out more achievers" ; and
"Killers regard socialisers with undisguised glee. It's not that socialisers are in any way a challenge, as usually they will be pushovers in combat; rather, socialisers feel a dreadful hurt when attacked (especially if it results in the loss of their persona), and it is this which killers enjoy about it. Besides, killers tend to like to have a bad reputation, and if there's one way to get people to talk about you, it's to attack a prominent socialiser... "
Bartle's theory is stronger in places than others. Certainly there's a direct relationship between Killers and socialisers. Killers are essentially parasites and can't exist without something to feed off. But the relationship doesn't work the other way. Socialisers can live without Killers, and indeed seek to do so. In fact, socializers can live without explorers or achievers too. Bartle also tried to claim achievers need explorers, but that's very weak. Most exploiters, for example, are achievers trying to get an edge, not explorers doing it out of intellectual curiosity. Achieving is what drives exploring.
Bartle's argument that a good MUD needs to balance the needs of all groups depends entirely on the strength of his argument about the groups being interdependent. In fact, if you strip away this obvious untruth, you find that a MUD can support just socialisers, or just achievers (my experience is that most typical achievers are entirely happy competing against each other, and don't need socialisers to boast to. The only type he describes - and fortunately the rarest type - which can't exist in isolation, is the Killer. The level cap (and the zero XP penalty for frontier death) essentially removes the Killer's fun. That's why I'm here !
I don't think Bartle's theory is any more scientific or accurate than the sort of questionnaire posed in women's magazines which ask multi-choice questions and then tells you you're : a sex maniac/ red hot/ normal/ sexless based on the results !
Hmm. Enough gobbledegook. Hometime.
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Danya
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- #105
Yes socialisers can exist in isolation, I don't believe I was denying that, but it does turn the game into IRC with avatars.
Killers are the only dependent group, however their main target in DAoC is the achievers, socialisers can just sit in the safe areas of their realm and get on with it. Without achievers to kill in RvR the killers leave. And we're back to IRC with avatars.
The Level cap and no XP loss harms killers not at all, they just hit the cap and hunt, the caps on everything mean they don't even have to divert time to equipment or trading with achievers, they can just get their epic, a crafted weapon and farm RPs till they drop. The people it harms are the achievers who hit the cap and have nothing to strive for so grow bored and leave. What few explorers there are will have probably left by now as DAoC is a small world with little to explore really. Thus we're back to socialisers and killers...
BTW in case you're interested, I'm an achiever-killer, and getting bored of DAoC
Killers are the only dependent group, however their main target in DAoC is the achievers, socialisers can just sit in the safe areas of their realm and get on with it. Without achievers to kill in RvR the killers leave. And we're back to IRC with avatars.
The Level cap and no XP loss harms killers not at all, they just hit the cap and hunt, the caps on everything mean they don't even have to divert time to equipment or trading with achievers, they can just get their epic, a crafted weapon and farm RPs till they drop. The people it harms are the achievers who hit the cap and have nothing to strive for so grow bored and leave. What few explorers there are will have probably left by now as DAoC is a small world with little to explore really. Thus we're back to socialisers and killers...
BTW in case you're interested, I'm an achiever-killer, and getting bored of DAoC
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old.XanateA
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- #106
We dont have these guild discussions on Excal cuz everyone already knows... so ill talk here instead
Ye, u mids exped fast etc etc... but NP hit lvl 40 when the highest on pryd/mid was lvl 30... so beat that etc^^
NP will never get together more than 2 FG in rvr or events, cuz theres never more than 20 ppl online.
We made 3.2 mill rp last week with so few members. Theres guilds in hib with 210 active members with only 1 mill last week (lol)
We have good teamwork when rvring, usually pure guild groups... so we basically top all stats last week etc:
Characters Last week Top 50 for all realms on server Excalibur
1 Xanatea Slan Midgard 304,592 Nolby Pride Healer
2 Eiaals TheMedic Midgard 215,084 Nolby Pride Healer
3 Cuthervaen Hibernia 214,535 Champion
4 Kallistor Midgard 206,399 Nolby Pride Runemaster
5 Runsy Speed Midgard 204,270 Nolby Pride Skald
RPs last week for guilds is also dominated by our small guild...
Excal:
Guilds with most RP earned last 7 days
1) Nolby Pride
Midgard
Membership: 44 Chars: 60
Realm points: 3,115,976
2) Celtic Fist
Hibernia
Membership: 73 Chars: 134
Realm points: 1,822,719
Prydwen :
1) Servants of the Lake
Albion
Membership: 67 Chars: 142
Realm points: 1,850,717
2) Lords Of England
Albion
Membership: 119 Chars: 224
Realm points: 745,927
Check out www.nolbypride.com , click on the herald.. we have stats there for both Prydwen and Excalibur, prydwen was added today.
Ye, u mids exped fast etc etc... but NP hit lvl 40 when the highest on pryd/mid was lvl 30... so beat that etc^^
NP will never get together more than 2 FG in rvr or events, cuz theres never more than 20 ppl online.
We made 3.2 mill rp last week with so few members. Theres guilds in hib with 210 active members with only 1 mill last week (lol)
We have good teamwork when rvring, usually pure guild groups... so we basically top all stats last week etc:
Characters Last week Top 50 for all realms on server Excalibur
1 Xanatea Slan Midgard 304,592 Nolby Pride Healer
2 Eiaals TheMedic Midgard 215,084 Nolby Pride Healer
3 Cuthervaen Hibernia 214,535 Champion
4 Kallistor Midgard 206,399 Nolby Pride Runemaster
5 Runsy Speed Midgard 204,270 Nolby Pride Skald
RPs last week for guilds is also dominated by our small guild...
Excal:
Guilds with most RP earned last 7 days
1) Nolby Pride
Midgard
Membership: 44 Chars: 60
Realm points: 3,115,976
2) Celtic Fist
Hibernia
Membership: 73 Chars: 134
Realm points: 1,822,719
Prydwen :
1) Servants of the Lake
Albion
Membership: 67 Chars: 142
Realm points: 1,850,717
2) Lords Of England
Albion
Membership: 119 Chars: 224
Realm points: 745,927
Check out www.nolbypride.com , click on the herald.. we have stats there for both Prydwen and Excalibur, prydwen was added today.
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svartalf
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- #107
Originally posted by SilverHood
ooh no, the transvestite wants me!
And he wants me to pay too!
oh dear
No, he wants you to pay, and calls you deary.. He's got it bad..
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SoulFly Amarok
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- #108
I started to rvr 2 days ago...
made 60k so far
made 60k so far
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_tindel_
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- #109
XanateA it sure sounds impressive but I couldnt care less because of the embarrasing bragging NP seem to use
SotL kicks ass and they do it with style
SotL kicks ass and they do it with style
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Perplexed
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- #110
Does that get you the laydees xana?
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SoulFly Amarok
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- #111
Don't Diss NP, a great Guild
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Danya
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- #112
Apparently it does...
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Blixt Gordon
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- #113
Just some meaningless info, atm Warders have more people at RR5+ then all of Albion combined. I guess that wont stand for long tho, but kinda cool while it last.
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old.Revz
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- #114
What you mean is you have more RR5+ than SotL since we have all of the RR5+ people in the realm (according to the stats anyway). We also had the top RP holder in every class for several weeks in addition to having over half the people in the top 100 RP holders for the realm (we currently have 44 members there). At most we have held over 40% of the entire realms RP in just our guild (currently we have 39%). At one point you had to go down 16 places to find a none SotL in the top 100 for Albion (now you just have to go down 10 places).
/em measures his penis and finds it is larger than Warders
/em measures his penis and finds it is larger than Warders
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ivan_tribbiani
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- #115
Originally posted by old.Revz
/em measures his penis and finds it is larger than Warders
/em Gideon measures his penis and finds its in reverse correlation with his ego
PS: sorry i couldnt resist the temptation.
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Solid
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- #116
What was supposed to be others nominating guilds they play against as good (or alongside) has become a "hey look at me I am uber" thread, its quite disgusting.
Dont take pride in your rp, divide you rp by you /played in days and you will get a shock at who is the most efficient player with their time. I dare you.
I got a pretty good idea who that is, MPK EM4 should ring a bell for ya
Dont take pride in your rp, divide you rp by you /played in days and you will get a shock at who is the most efficient player with their time. I dare you.
I got a pretty good idea who that is, MPK EM4 should ring a bell for ya
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old.Aethelstan
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- #117
Getting back to nominations, I'd nominate whoever that guild is which sends a small group to camp the AMG in Odin's, night after night. They wouldn't stop a keep-taking force or a Hibbie Zerg, but they're enough usually to stop any small-group skirmish force (ie me and any unfortunate minstrel I've dragged along) heading into Midgard to cause trouble in Yggrda. They really are there every single night, and it must be bloody boring for them in the long hours when no-one turns up.
That's dedication to helping the realm. Not flashy willy-waving or stealthers personal clash of the egos, but doing a useful job which may not get noticed but probably helps the realm of Midgard more than any number of Emain fights. The only name I can recall from the fights is Carrott. Don't know if that helps pinpoint the Guild.
That's dedication to helping the realm. Not flashy willy-waving or stealthers personal clash of the egos, but doing a useful job which may not get noticed but probably helps the realm of Midgard more than any number of Emain fights. The only name I can recall from the fights is Carrott. Don't know if that helps pinpoint the Guild.
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Solid
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- #118
Pfft you remember Carrot and not me? or Stormsteel? cheeky swine
yes Head Hunters are at Odins most everynite along with some other regulars, Mr Ottar and the lovely Xiantrec are also there.
yes Head Hunters are at Odins most everynite along with some other regulars, Mr Ottar and the lovely Xiantrec are also there.
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old.Revz
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- #119
That's not what you used to say about my willy waving Solid
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Solid
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- #120
well I only got my prescription Contact Lenses last week, so can finally see it for the disfigured relic it is, not that I ever want to see it again