Rant Politics and the older generation, lol

[DaGaffer]

It is not unpaid work it is paid for out of the benefit she was claiming. She did not get extra money for that work but she was still on the dole so hardly slave labour.

Its still distorting the labour market. What's the point in minimum wage legislation if companies can get around it like this?

 

[old.user4556]

Yes it is really easy when you could Right to Buy your house for a third of its real value stay there for two years then sell, effectively being given two thirds the value of that house for fuck all. That is a fucking crime and whoever though it up should be shot for treason.

You mean Thatcher?

 

[milou]

If someone claims they are 'paying' for your degree through taxation, just claim in the same wide-sweeping fashion that you'll be paying for their pension.

 

[soze]

Its still distorting the labour market. What's the point in minimum wage legislation if companies can get around it like this?

I assume not every company can do this and I assume they can't keep people for ever. But if they contribute any money at all to the Job Seekers benefit then I am for it as it is money that other wise would need to come from taxes. Like you said though if Poundland are exploiting this and getting "cheap" labour and never hiring any of the job seekers then yes they are taking the piss and they should be removed from the scheme. I suppose it comes down to how well it is regulated and what both sides get out of it.

 

[rynnor]

Like engineering.

Thats a myth - there is no shortage of engineers and in reality with no real border controls we have no skill shortages.

 

[cHodAX]

Thats a myth - there is no shortage of engineers and in reality with no real border controls we have no skill shortages.

The number of engineering jobs in this country has plummeted because he have outsourced work overseas to keep costs low but numbers of engineers are drastically down still falling. There might not be masses of engineering positions open right now but that is because numbers are down across the board anyway and where holes appear we fill them with underskilled EU workers. We are infact drastically short of British engineers and particularly young British engineers. A close friend works in senior position of an engineering division for Hyde Group, recently senior management had to beg the board of directors to re-instate the apprentice program that was abandoned nearly decade ago. They needed it bring back for a number of reasons, firstly they cannot recruit people with the skills needed from the marketplace and anyone they do recruit now requires extensive retraining whilst on much higher wages than any apprentice, secondly almost half the engineering workforce is now aged 45 or over and they expect to lose around 20% to retirement in the next five years. That means 1/5th of a vastly experienced workforce with skills that cannot easily be picked up elsewhere will need to be replaced in short order, if they want to train apprentices and give them proper time to aquire all those vital skill then they need to start now.

So it isn't a myth, the lack of border controls is just masking a deeper problem that is going to cause much bigger issues in the future if left unaddressed.

 

[Lamp]

You can do a degree in Nail Technology. Bloody 3 yrs to learn how to pain someone's fecking nails. Jesus.

 

[Tom]

Thats a myth - there is no shortage of engineers and in reality with no real border controls we have no skill shortages.

Not according to the programmes I listen to. I remember a Radio 4 broadcast with a Siemens engineer bemoaning how he couldn't get enough people to design and build those big magnetic medical scanners.

 

[cHodAX]

Not according to the programmes I listen to. I remember a Radio 4 broadcast with a Siemens engineer bemoaning how he couldn't get enough people to design and build those big magnetic medical scanners.

Yep and it is only getting worse, Siemens youth apprentice program for the U.K. is half the size it was in the mid 90's, certainly on the train engineering side at least. When big projects are struggling they have to bring in staff from Germany and the Netherlands because they cannot get people with the skills they need in the U.K.

We just don't train enough apprentices and we don't subsidise engineering degrees to make them more attractive even though we vitally need a new wave of engineers badly to replace those retiring or moving abroad.

 

[DaGaffer]

Yep and it is only getting worse, Siemens youth apprentice program for the U.K. is half the size it was in the mid 90's, certainly on the train engineering side at least. When big projects are struggling they have to bring in staff from Germany and the Netherlands because they cannot get people with the skills they need in the U.K.

We just don't train enough apprentices and we don't subsidise engineering degrees to make them more attractive even though we vitally need a new wave of engineers badly to replace those retiring or moving abroad.

Yeah well, the answer's really fucking simple; pay engineers a LOT more money. Its not complicated. Engineering has long been undervalued in the UK. Its not a matter of subsidising degrees, its a matter of making engineering a viable career choice. In Germany and Italy, engineers run companies. In Britain, accountants run companies. And its always been that way.

 

[Aoami]

My gfs old man is an engineer and on £80 an hour, he's doing alright.

 

[soze]

Dildo who ruined the Boat Race studied contemporary urbanism now there is a course that should be heavily subsidised so more gems of society can make protests at really pointless times. Hopefully we can get 30 or 40 people to run out and Granddad the Olympic Torch Carriers as they go round the country.​

 

[chipper]

im sorry but in what society can a degree in lady gaga or fucking train spotting be considered useful? i agree useful courses should be fully subsidised with conditions id be happy to foot the bill to train doctors and nurses and professions that actually benefit the country

 

[Talivar]

Vocational degrees in general should be subsidised since most of them are directly tied into certain jobs

 

[Job]

You don't need a degree in exactly what you end up doing it's mainly proof of your ability to get your shit together and learn anything to level that proves you can and that you are a space cadet for the system.
Have you seen PE degrees?
I mean WTF, they have just invented a whole discipline of bolaks for you to study in unbelievable detail, fine motor skills, broad motor skills, repetitive and non repetitive muscle movements in about 10 different sub groups, you might as well be learning the full spectrum of calling bird stances and their effects on the bumble bee population, employers want people they can rely on to process info in a useful way and not to ask difficult questions.

 

[Talivar]

You didnt need a degree in something specific before but its getting to point where you do now, simply due to the sheer number of people with degrees now. So naturally employers now have a choice out of lots of candidates with generic or unrelated degrees and few with more relevent degrees. Degrees have become too common thats the big issue

 

[cHodAX]

Yeah well, the answer's really fucking simple; pay engineers a LOT more money. Its not complicated. Engineering has long been undervalued in the UK. Its not a matter of subsidising degrees, its a matter of making engineering a viable career choice. In Germany and Italy, engineers run companies. In Britain, accountants run companies. And its always been that way.

How do you pay them more? We can't even keep engineering firms afloat with current wage levels because we outsource so much work to eastern europe and further afield due to much lower costs. We need a complete change in manufacturing our culture and investment in high end technology to be able to compete with Germany, that is why we only have a handful of companies able to do it, the investment capital just isn't there for smaller firms. The rot started a long time ago and successive governments did nothing to reverse it, all that matters to them is the holy grail of 'The City' because of the huge revenues. Our economy is becoming a one trick pony.

 

[rynnor]

Not according to the programmes I listen to. I remember a Radio 4 broadcast with a Siemens engineer bemoaning how he couldn't get enough people to design and build those big magnetic medical scanners.

In general though - most of the guys I went to uni with who did the fiendishly difficult and time intensive IEEE course ended up doing non-engineering jobs.

The reality is that if there were better prospects more would study it.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

You don't need a degree in exactly what you end up doing it's mainly proof of your ability to get your shit together and learn anything to level that proves you can and that you are a space cadet for the system.
Have you seen PE degrees?
I mean WTF, they have just invented a whole discipline of bolaks for you to study in unbelievable detail, fine motor skills, broad motor skills, repetitive and non repetitive muscle movements in about 10 different sub groups, you might as well be learning the full spectrum of calling bird stances and their effects on the bumble bee population, employers want people they can rely on to process info in a useful way and not to ask difficult questions.

Funnily enough the study of science in sport has lead to huge increases in what the human body can do. It's why we keep breaking records and getting faster and stronger: we understand our biology much better now. I don't really see how this kind of understanding of our selves is not a good thing?

You chose a bad example there.

 

[cHodAX]

There are a good amount of nonsense courses but the biggest issue I have is the sheer numbers doing degrees in media studies or psychology. 90% of those qualified in those fields never obtain a job in the area they are trained for. We need to be restricting those courses, they are ridiculously popular for no good reason, the number of jobs available doesn't justify the amount studying for them.

 

[Hawkwind]

Thats a myth - there is no shortage of engineers and in reality with no real border controls we have no skill shortages.

Not a myth at all, there is a worldwide shortage of certain Engineering trades. Avionics Engineers and Engineers specialising in Fluid dynamics (oil, gas & water industries) as an example. Also, some design engineering trades are also becoming a lost art like Analogue Power Supply design.
There is also a current shortage of trained pilots. That was due to the rapid requirements of Middle East and China based airlines who had massive shortages. Even the Asian carriers like Korean are having to pay above average to get western trained pilots.

 

[Scouse]

Are we actually short of engineers?

yes

Really? Most engineers I know (civil and structural) don't earn massive amounts and the sector is flooded with applicants for every job.

What type of engineer are we low on, exactly?

 

[Scouse]

You mean Thatcher?

I've heard the current cuntservatives are aiming to bring it back too.