Poisonspikes - GOA... when are you changing them back?

[Takitothemacs]

Hi GOA,

as per discossion in this thread: http://www.pryd.net/showthread.php?t=5833

When are you changing the poisonspikes back to how they should be?

Mythic as you know consider their use in combat to be a feature... not a bug that GOA can change in anticipation of a mythic fix... you changed it without sanction from mythic quick enough... so when are you changing it back?

Now ordinarily I would ask on the pryd board but a GOA gm decided to hide behind EULA having been slapped silly by the members there and then ran away like a stuck pig when the heat got turned up... saying that he would only come here to see forums... (although tbh the heat I have seen the community give the GMs here has been far worse in the past than anything they have had to endure on pryd.net.

ah what the hell... heres the other thread too...: http://www.pryd.net/showthread.php?t=5912 feel free to ignore, flame or whatever... But its about time GOA started doing what they are supposed to... provide a service to us their paying customers.

 

[Eeben]

provide a service to us their paying customers.

like that is ever gonna happen.. Really sad to c goa is killing a great game like daoc

 

[Righthandof]

they should hire a lot more new people(and perhaps fire the old), because it seems like they have far not enough utility to solve problems.. lots of people still waiting for item restore as well, and seems like they're not going to continue even yet..(poisonspike stuff, patch translation, xml info..) GG!

 

[Corran]

Now without going through the thread again which i not read for ages I summerise what is said (either on FH or pryd.net

"As we did with the original fix, we are in discussion with Mythic. Currently we are waiting to see what they want us to do about this. It will most likely be one of 3 things:

1) Leave it as is till 1.80 comes to GoA server, that includes the proper fix.
2) Mythic will provide us with a quickfix
3) Mythic will ask us to just change it back.

We will take action when Mythic have got back to us on the matter. Till then please be patient"

 

[Takitothemacs]

and yet their official communication remains silent... Xalin said that they had been given no choice... about time that they sorted themselves out and fixed what they in effect broke...

 

[Deepflame]

Reckon they should hire a monkey that posts the same information every day, except, phrased differently would solve your whining about official communication? Seriously, you can't inform people about what you don't know. I could tell you tomorrow it's going to rain but for the same account maybe it'll be dry. I can't tell until tomorrow is here.

 

[Corran]

and yet their official communication remains silent... Xalin said that they had been given no choice... about time that they sorted themselves out and fixed what they in effect broke...

Of course the official communication remains silient.. are you even using official channels to ask questions? Probably not, too busy flaming away. You should be grateful they respond at all here.

And what do you want them to say on the web page

"We fixed the issue of casting multiple mines to the EXACT SPECIFICATIONS that mythic set for the ability AFTER talking to them. Since the fix Mythic have stated they changed the ability specifications but not updated us on it even after we spoke to them about this fix. We we let you know about the fix when mthic get back to us"

What will that achieve? The people that whining on this forum already been given this answer many times. Not in them exact words but i thought i change it to be clear for you and others. If people get in touch with them via rightnow they will get their response via the official channels, so go there if you want an official response.

I personally would remain silent on the matter if i were them, everytime someone brings it up they get the same response and then people start flaming again as they dont like the answer anyways.

 

[Takitothemacs]

Of course the official communication remains silient.. are you even using official channels to ask questions? Probably not, too busy flaming away. You should be grateful they respond at all here.

And what do you want them to say on the web page

"We fixed the issue of casting multiple mines to the EXACT SPECIFICATIONS that mythic set for the ability AFTER talking to them. Since the fix Mythic have stated they changed the ability specifications but not updated us on it even after we spoke to them about this fix. We we let you know about the fix when mthic get back to us"

What will that achieve? The people that whining on this forum already been given this answer many times. Not in them exact words but i thought i change it to be clear for you and others. If people get in touch with them via rightnow they will get their response via the official channels, so go there if you want an official response.

I personally would remain silent on the matter if i were them, everytime someone brings it up they get the same response and then people start flaming again as they dont like the answer anyways.

I have seen more official communication from GOA then most... including the official thread on the internal GOA boards about this issue... and if you read the quote from the internals then you will see what they said... they admitted they got it wrong.

Its about time GOA owned up to their faults. As a service supplier they should take into account that they have a customer base that isnt happy. Once Requiel realised that the pryd.net contingent wasnt happy he ran away and decided to ignore the problem... GOA's service is the problem. Anyone who thinks that there isn't a problem with the service, restoration, GOA instigated bugs (poisonspikes), game marketing and customer satisfaction in general is either blind, stupid or blissfully unaware that GOA are providing what is ostensibly a far from adequate service.

 

[Takitothemacs]

and just in case you cant find the bit in the linked thread with the quote from the internals...:

22-11-2005, 11:26
Takitothemacs
Gilded Spear Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 405
Post Rating: Unrated

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:
Originally Posted by Requiel
As you should very well know Takit, we don't change things like that because we 'think' it needs fixing. I'm sure you can remember any number of bugs reported by you and other E&Es that had to wait for Mythic to either fix or sanction our fix, that's an inviolable rule and we never, ever change things liek that on our own initiative. You are also fully aware that the people who do bug fixing and liaise with Mythic are an entirely different group of people to the GMs (who are responsible for sorting out the restoration problem). I'm trying to think of a motivation for your post that isn't just a rather poor attempt to stir up trouble and I have to say I'm failing.

Yesterday, Xalin very kindly gave me a link to the internal boards where I saw a discussion about this topic. (I was a bit surprised I still had access tbh having asked you to bar me when I left the program)

and I quote what I read there... ( you arent going to like this but I will not quote who said it... you, Requiel, can verify and comment on the authenticity of the comment that I quote and then please go over your last paragraph again):

"I spoke with our technical guys about this a couple of days ago as we've been getting a lot of questions about this from the community and they told me that (exact quote) "We've done this fix in anticipation of the same fix on the US servers."

So if Mythic is saying that there will be no fix like this on their servers it would be logical to assume we shall reverse ours. "

Now please tell me again that nothing gets done without being fully sanctioned by mythic and that you "never, ever change things liek that on our own initiative" things that you "think" or "anticipate" that Mythic are going to fix.
__________________

Littlefirby Lv51 ML5 Lurishade Raven Ardent

 

[Corran]

I have seen more official communication from GOA then most... including the official thread on the internal GOA boards about this issue... and if you read the quote from the internals then you will see what they said... they admitted they got it wrong.

Its about time GOA owned up to their faults. As a service supplier they should take into account that they have a customer base that isnt happy. Once Requiel realised that the pryd.net contingent wasnt happy he ran away and decided to ignore the problem... GOA's service is the problem. Anyone who thinks that there isn't a problem with the service, restoration, GOA instigated bugs (poisonspikes), game marketing and customer satisfaction in general is either blind, stupid or blissfully unaware that GOA are providing what is ostensibly a far from adequate service.

They admit they got it wrong BUT they got it wrong following the information that they were given by mythic. So it isnt all their fault, the blame lies on both companies and the miscommunication between them and no doubt is being assessed as to how and why it happened.

I read the thread on pryd.net, and to be honest i would leave the boards as well. Their were attacks on both GoA and others aimed towards Requiel. Why would he bother posting on a board where people say that everything he types is lies? Believe me he is not running away or ignoring the problem of unhappy customers, he just decided it wasnt worth talking to a brick wall like that community was. Everything he said was ignored for what it said at face value, was just another reason to throw an attack his way.

I know I wouldnt bother posting on them boards again. If it wasn't for the cost i would be on the phone to him at the moment (Yes I got the phonenumber to get directly through to his office from previous communications with him) to discuss the matters which people seem to be facing in a civil mannor. After discussion with him i would maybe ask if he could request his boss to contact me so I could discuss matters with him as well, unfortunately phoning abroad from the UK is a joke.

Now, when I have finished discussing one matter with Requiel via emails, I may bring up some the issues you seem to have, just that I really dont see a reason to due to the hostility your throwing out across various posts. I see how i feel. Maybe in a few days I be willing to help you out but as Im not paid to do so I currently dont see the point in trying due to your attitude.

 

[Pohjan Poika]

imo give more dev logs and somewhere for normal people can go to get some better info on several issues. alot of people whine and complain here due to the fact that there isnt much information out on many problems. maybe setup a section here where only GOA staff can post news on current issues - like poisonspikes, xmls, lag and restoration of items (and etc).

please give us a place where all teh info is gathered - instead of spread threads and community whine. today i rely on mythics site more than goa's, since thats where you get all the info straight up (atleast the stuff that matter). goa seems to have started to complement thier news to look more like mythics but imo they are far from there.
anyways since most ppl seem to whine here, it would be perfect if goa had a small section to post a reply to all these issues so everyone could read them to get answers to thier questions. the support alternatives arent all too many for the players - sure it makes goas work alot easier not to have alot of whine feedback or questions.


just give us a goa dev/support section where only goa staff can post no-one else. and direct people there if they flame/whine on issues that have been stated and answered.

 

[scorge]

to be honest i couldn't really care, seems like a lot of whine for such a little thing.

 

[Corran]

As for the XML issue... for you pohjan. Post from requiel on pryd.net

Requiel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The last few patches have all radically changed the way that the main character and guild databases work. DR will add more new things to track as well. There isn't an ETA that I know of for a working XML, when there is it'll be in the news.
__________________
English Servers GM
EU DAoC Community Site
EU DAoC Website

............................

So basically, they arent sure when this will be fixed. They rely on mythic for this sort of thing mainly as most people know. With the fact they are making changes to it in DR i cant forsee it being dorted before then personally.

And incase you didnt know. The way the US XML and the INTERNATION XML works is different. That is why it doesnt automatically work like the herald's xml. Maybe it something that could be looked into but with different software/hardware there will always be a delay. Hopefully after DR there wont be such a big change between way xml works between patchs. But for this we have to see what mythic decide to do.

 

[Takitothemacs]

Corran, nice that you have his number. Dont ask him about any of my issues, if he hears anything of my I dont doubt he will turn his back on the matter again. The fact that I KNOW where GOA have let down their customers time and again is enough for them to blank me. Perhaps an E&E gone wild is a pain in the ass, all I ask if for the community to actually stand up for that which they are suffering at the hands of bad management at the hands of GOA.

 

[Takitothemacs]

XML has been offline for months... its been offline for almost a month after each patch before this worst downtime... despite these assurances GOA have brushed aside any and all requests for XML to be sorted via the internal boards for well over a year now. The simply dont value the customers as people that they should pay attention to.

The E&E program as I have said elsewhere has become a dumping ground for issues... the E&E's state issues there and they (as I did in the past) defended GOA stating that the issues had been raised and we were told that they were being dealt with, however its only so long that anyone can swallow the lies that we are being fed.

 

[Corran]

Corran, nice that you have his number. Dont ask him about any of my issues, if he hears anything of my I dont doubt he will turn his back on the matter again. The fact that I KNOW where GOA have let down their customers time and again is enough for them to blank me. Perhaps an E&E gone wild is a pain in the ass, all I ask if for the community to actually stand up for that which they are suffering at the hands of bad management at the hands of GOA.

I often bring up issues people are facing with them, never been an E&E but i think they respect the fact that I look at all realms equally even if i dont play in them all. I treat all people the same, if they dont play fair then i will do something about it. If they got a problem then i will see what i can find out. I reckon that if i spoke to them then i would be able to get answers, but the problem is they will be the same ones as people are already ignoring and so what difference will it make if i post them?

I know that they respect anyone that will come to them, as long as they come to them in a mannor that is civil. If you instatnly start throwing insults then you get nowhere.

Just an example. Work in Insurance and you will get alot of abuse, and most employeers will give you full authority to hang up on said people.

joe bloggs "You useless fucking shits! I want xxxxx"
employee "Please calm down sir and i see what i can do"
Joe bloggs "Fuck off with calming down, just do it"
Employee "If you dont stop the profanity towards me i will terminate the call"
Joe Bloggs "No you wont you fuckin ****, i paid you so you listen"
Employee "Im terminating the call, good bye"


And yes you find that will happen alot

 

[Takitothemacs]

I spent 2 years (almost) as an E&E, I directed all issues to them in a civil manner... until such time that I could take the lies and brushing of issues aside mo more. Am I annoyed now? Yes too right I am... and with good reason imo.. GOA have lied time and again.

 

[scorge]

Corran, nice that you have his number. Dont ask him about any of my issues, if he hears anything of my I dont doubt he will turn his back on the matter again. The fact that I KNOW where GOA have let down their customers time and again is enough for them to blank me. Perhaps an E&E gone wild is a pain in the ass, all I ask if for the community to actually stand up for that which they are suffering at the hands of bad management at the hands of GOA.

If you drew up a list with the 10 most wanted things players want from DAOC and the 10 most wanted things GoA want from DAOC they would be radically differant. Thats because our priorities (Fun) does not equate to GoA priorites (Money).

GoA is an expert in MMORPGs, thats why it only hosts one..

http://www.goa.com/en/index.php

Managing massively multiplayer games, GOA's premier area of expertise.

At the moment EU have more players than the US. which may benefit GoA in having more weight with bug fixes etc.. then again maybe not...

 

[scorge]

joe bloggs "You useless fucking shits! I want xxxxx"
employee "Please calm down sir and i see what i can do"
Joe bloggs "Fuck off with calming down, just do it"
Employee "If you dont stop the profanity towards me i will terminate the call"
Joe Bloggs "No you wont you fuckin ****, i paid you so you listen"
Employee "Im terminating the call, good bye"


And yes you find that will happen alot

Seriously, is it just me or did that turn anyone else on

 

[Corran]

Seriously, is it just me or did that turn anyone else on

Haha, why am i not surprised

 

[Awarkle]

i was under the impression that posion spike was meant to be used as aland mine ? instead its been used as an insta dot.

to me thats a bug and although i dont play a stealther it just seemed to be somthign that could be changed.

Taki i respect you and stuff but you seemed to have gone totally librarian poo in the passed few months i thinks a chill pill is in order.

 

[Azathrim]

i was under the impression that posion spike was meant to be used as aland mine ? instead its been used as an insta dot.

to me thats a bug and although i dont play a stealther it just seemed to be somthign that could be changed.

Well, you are wrong. That's not how the Poison Spike is currently meant to be used. It's a feature that it's possible to be used incombat.

If you want to go by what "is meant", there is a long list of changes GOA could pick out and "fix". Forinstance, Paladin Endurance Chant. That's supposed to draw power. It does not on the first run of the chant (when you start it). That's accordingly a bug. But, Mythic have now decided it's a feature. Same thing with Poison Spike.

GOA decided to fix one, but not the other.

<shrug> Their failure to handle this situation in a somewhat professional manner is just another item added to the list of incompetences and mistakes done by GOA.

We can only guess at the reasons. Perhaps it's Mythic at fault, perhaps it's GOA, perhaps it's because the Americans and French simply don't work well together.

What we can care about is, that we are costumers of GOA and they sometimes performs incredible silly things. If that is due to another company (Mythic), then it's their (GOA's) responsibility to sort that out. Not ours.

So far GOA haven't managed that very well.

 

[dub]

i was informed in other thread that goa tested this "fix" before it going live , still bit worried that none of their testers found anything wrong in this "fix".

to find more than one tester that dont point out how this "fix" radically changes how perfomance of PS is from current live version on US servers sounds like a miracle to me.

i do realize that communication breakdown might have played some part on this issue , but still not impressed by goa's testing.

a second thing of annoyance to me is the delay politic , why wouldnt goa revert this "fix" as soon as they realize how PS currently working differently on US and EURO servers.

only reason i can see for it would be that they regard the bug they set out to fix more balance altering than the bug they introduced , if this is true it is really scary.

even those who think the in-combat use of PS is a bug not a feature have to agree that in regards to game balance the bug mythic introduced in their fix is more severe than the bug they fixed.

just remove that silly fix-bug-"fix" and wait for whatever mythic decides instead of leaving it in and wait for what mythic decides on the PS issue ?

 

[Shanaia]

flame

I used to really like you.

Hope you are enjoying your powertrip mate

 

[Isunder]

Now without going through the thread again which i not read for ages I summerise what is said (either on FH or pryd.net

"As we did with the original fix, we are in discussion with Mythic. Currently we are waiting to see what they want us to do about this. It will most likely be one of 3 things:

1) Leave it as is till 1.80 comes to GoA server, that includes the proper fix.
2) Mythic will provide us with a quickfix
3) Mythic will ask us to just change it back.

We will take action when Mythic have got back to us on the matter. Till then please be patient"

Can you explain why 1 and 2 are even options?
At the moment Poisonspike is broken - fact (only people denying this are the ones that don't like assassins having a insta cast dot, but it's been confirmed by Mythic and now GoA - correct functionality is for PS to be castable in combat).
Option 1 is stupid (don't want to be harsh but face facts it is stupid, I mean there's not even been a release date for 1.80 for one thing, it's not a regular patch it's an expansion, it's only just started to be tested so we're looking at some time before it's released)
Option 2 is fine, but again who knows how long it will take for Mythic to provide a hotfix, it's not like they're running their own servers or something. It's just as simple to revert while waiting for a hotfix, right? I mean who's going to be put out then, the multitudes of RvR'ers that kept running over a snare and dot at the same time? Not fun being hit by either, but just look at it like this, that poisonspike wouldn't be there if the assassin could just save it to use in combat(as intended).
Option 3 - This one is what assassins are hoping for but again relies on Mythic getting in contact with GoA (who knows when that will happen, are the communication lines/misscommunication lines still working - it's been a week since the grab bag and in an MMO thats an eternity)
There was a maintenance last week, really don't see why Option 4 wasn't implemented - revert changes to original - then wait for Mythic to tell them what to do, really if the fix breaks functionality to something that is worse than intended then reverse it, don't just screw a whole class type over (again not wanting to be harsh but thats how it looks regarding assassins)

And reading this over, yes I'm lacking in patience, but so would most people who have to play the game without features (because of an unnecessary change) that they've gotten used to only to be told that the problem will be fixed but not when (3 months? 6 months? who knows) Having said all that it will probably be changed mid week, making all the whining redunant But then again, probably not

 

[Tilda]

Ok as has been said a million times;

Options are

Leave it as it is,
This prevents a nasty bug (multiple mines in 1 cast) being abused and is probably preferably to returning it to its exploitable status. But yes, it isn't totally satisfactory.

Option 2, waiting for a mythic hotfix will probably occur in tandem with 1, as they may decide to leave it as it is until a fix is given. This is probably the best option.

Option 3 is the worst option. If they turn it back, then it can be exploited. This is bad. As much as assasins may love a free 400 damage in a fight, if it gets exploited, its rediculous. Sure the assasins would instantly be able to kill any solo class 1 vs 1, but it would also be stupid.
Mythic and GOA talk on a daily basis, however, as I understand it, its currently in the hands of mythic techs to see if they can develop a viable hotfix for it.
It dosn't really screw you over, it just denies you something which you've been abusing for a while. Sure Mythic says working as intended, however, once all assasins start casting multiple mines on inc it won't be fun.
Its laughable to suggest that fixing 1 ML ability, suddently breaks an entire class.
You're beginnging to sound like zerks did after the nerf.

 

[censi]

takiomatic.

your such a drama queen man.

I was peeved at poison spike getting nerfed more than anyone but its hardly a fooking Tom Clancy type conspiracy.

wind down man.

(oh and those boards are internal. you are undermining the whole point to them if you start posting stuff said there on these forums)

 

[Dracus]

Ok as has been said a million times;

Options are

Leave it as it is,
This prevents a nasty bug (multiple mines in 1 cast) being abused and is probably preferably to returning it to its exploitable status. But yes, it isn't totally satisfactory.

Option 2, waiting for a mythic hotfix will probably occur in tandem with 1, as they may decide to leave it as it is until a fix is given. This is probably the best option.

Option 3 is the worst option. If they turn it back, then it can be exploited. This is bad. As much as assasins may love a free 400 damage in a fight, if it gets exploited, its rediculous. Sure the assasins would instantly be able to kill any solo class 1 vs 1, but it would also be stupid.
Mythic and GOA talk on a daily basis, however, as I understand it, its currently in the hands of mythic techs to see if they can develop a viable hotfix for it.
It dosn't really screw you over, it just denies you something which you've been abusing for a while. Sure Mythic says working as intended, however, once all assasins start casting multiple mines on inc it won't be fun.
Its laughable to suggest that fixing 1 ML ability, suddently breaks an entire class.
You're beginnging to sound like zerks did after the nerf.

I missed the issue with the bug I think? what excactly was bugged about it? as far as mythic are concerned dropping in combat isnt a bug...So Im failing to see the point of abuse?

/Dracus

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

I often bring up issues people are facing with them, never been an E&E but i think they respect the fact that I look at all realms equally even if i dont play in them all. I treat all people the same, if they dont play fair then i will do something about it. If they got a problem then i will see what i can find out. I reckon that if i spoke to them then i would be able to get answers, but the problem is they will be the same ones as people are already ignoring and so what difference will it make if i post them?

I know that they respect anyone that will come to them, as long as they come to them in a mannor that is civil. If you instatnly start throwing insults then you get nowhere.

Just an example. Work in Insurance and you will get alot of abuse, and most employeers will give you full authority to hang up on said people.

joe bloggs "You useless fucking shits! I want xxxxx"
employee "Please calm down sir and i see what i can do"
Joe bloggs "Fuck off with calming down, just do it"
Employee "If you dont stop the profanity towards me i will terminate the call"
Joe Bloggs "No you wont you fuckin ****, i paid you so you listen"
Employee "Im terminating the call, good bye"


And yes you find that will happen alot

I work in insurance, he tells the truth. Abuse gets you a dial tone, fast.

 

[Dracus]

Just saw what the bug was damn I need glasses and had no idea that was possible..never had it happen to me

/Dracus