pierce/shield lurikeen champion

[zithal]

Standard spec for shield champ
Piercing 39
Shield 42
Valor 50

Or is LW still the only good option?

And are there any +pierce items (other then weapons) usable by champs?

 

[Taggart]

I dunno how good pierce is, but im playing a S/S luri champ with same spec as u but blades instead of pierce. LW is cool i think and which i was going to go till i noticed how much lil luri can block and parry

 

[celestina]

Now that champs get self buffs and all compared to a hero unbuffed champ actually have better str and con.. dont know why the hell mythic did that thou whats the point in being a hero now.....

but anyway S/S or P/S Champ will do very well and with the next patch where they will be fixing Blocks and Parries in RvR .. defensive heros will get some loving !!

 

[sadriel]

think

I think heros and champions musn't be compared cause they r different. Champions r good for interrumpting casters and using Lw, but heros have the moose and more hps. But let mythic do better our classes np lol.

 

[Aeternus]

Originally posted by celestina
Now that champs get self buffs and all compared to a hero unbuffed champ actually have better str and con.. dont know why the hell mythic did that thou whats the point in being a hero now.....

but anyway S/S or P/S Champ will do very well and with the next patch where they will be fixing Blocks and Parries in RvR .. defensive heros will get some loving !!

champs are on the hybrid damage table... heros do, what 33% more damage i think?
The str/con buff really was necessary to make champs survive and to be able to deal out more realistic damage... (got around 700 base hp at level 50 as an elf champ...and hitting for 33% less....)

 

[Cernos]

Well, there's no way that a Luri Champ (eg Malevolencia) does 33% less damage than me, so not sure that figure is correct. I've seen some of her hits with a LW and they compare pretty closely to what I can do with a spear. Not far behind at all, a few % perhaps, certainly not 33%.

A Luri or Elf Champ's strength and con with druid buffs is capped at only a few points less than my cap (much less than the 20 starting difference). And if solo, then the Champs self buffs mean a Luri or Elf Champ will have more str than me. They then of course have massively more dex.

That's frankly ridiculous. A Celt pure tank should always have more str and con than a Luri or Elf Champ. Makes a mockery of the whole race choosing thing - I chose celt to have superior strength and con, at the expense of dexterity and ghetto stealth. With these self buffs I no longer have that.

Champs also got superior crowd control to Heroes - snare, DD for interupts, debuffs.

The only thing a Hero has going for them is some extra hitpoints and Moose. Well, the extra hitpoints are of course welcome, but I usually find that if a nuker gets me targeted and I can't get to them, it matters not if I have 1000, 2000 or 6000 hps, I'm usually going down rapidly. And these days I seem to be targeted first an awful lot. Champs of course have the possibility of casting a DD to interupt if the caster is in range, Heroes have nothing.

Don't get me wrong, Champs needed some attention and I'm glad they got it. But self buffs wasn't the way to do it and has made a mockery of the whole race choice aspect of the game. Which is why Luri Champs have gone from being a bit of an oddity pioneered by a handful of players, to the realm being swarmed with 'em. As always that's a good sign that Mythic have guffed up on the game balance yet again.

Cernos
50 Celt Hero, Raven Ardent, Hib Prydwen

 

[lakih]

Lol Cernos, that selfbuff we champs got was one of the things that made champs playable again.
And saying that champs have crowdcontrol... DD, range 1500, sure we can interupt with it, once every 15 seconds... speed debuff, range 1000, breaks on damage... doesnt work on classes with speed buff (its supposed to, but broken), castable every 20 seconds... its only the dd that can interupt casters.
When it comes to Malve's dmg compared to yours... have you asked her what ra's she got? And as you where saying, you do more dmg than her as it is now... and you got a 50% heal (moose) not to say the sweet ra's. IP, Purge for less cost, determination...
Compare a Hero's ra's at RR4L0 with a Champ

Hero                              Champion
Aug. Dex. 2                       Aug. Dex 2
MoP 2                             Mop 1
FA 2                              FA 2
IP                                IP
Purge                             Avoidance of magic 1
Derermination 1                   (1 point left)

I tried to set them up after importance
1 IP (prerequest FA 2)
2 Purge
3 MoP (prerequest Aug. Dex. 2)
4 Anti CC/Magic

And another thing... to get the highest selfbuff we need to spec Valor to 50. So a full LW Champ usually looks like this:
Valor 50
LW 50
Parry 28
(26 pts left)

While a full LW Hero can look like this:
50 LW
39 Parry
42 Shield
(24 pts left)

(or if i would have rolled one: 44 Spear, 39 Parry, 42 Shield. 24 Pierce)

Ive lost my thread way back, but anyway, saying that the str/con self buff is the wrong way of fixing champs is like kicking everyone of them in the balls. Your just upset cus someone 1/3 of your lenght is outdamageing you... roll a large firby...

(And in a few patches lurris can become Heroes too...)

 

[Cernos]

Not kicking any Champs in the balls (heh, you've been reading the VN boards too much, that's what they always say there if anyone dares to suggest that anything to do with Champs might be done differently). I mentioned I agreed Champs needed some attention and it's good they are playable again. I just don't think the self buffs was the way to do it. That was the cheap and cheerful approach (no surprises there from Mythic). They should have boosted the Champ's Valor line in other ways. A castable short range stun or a very short duration run speed boost (like the ranger spell) are just two ideas which spring to mind, though both would have other realms crying nerf.

Heroes are meant to be the pure tank of Hib, which means they should hit the hardest (along with BMs who give up scale armour for damage) and have the most hit points and access to RAs which give them the ability to be damage sponges. This is in return for lacking the versatility that hybrid classes have. Everyone raves about Moose and of course it's good, but I'd trade it any day of the week for a DD I can interupt a caster with, or a snare I can catch an assassin or skald with. But if Heroes got such abilities there'd be a justifiable outcry as it wouldn't be appropriate.

Where Mythic have messed up is by not boosting the Champ classe's versatility and instead opting for a cop out str/con boost. That's all I'm saying, not that Champs didn't need a boost, but there were more appropriate ways to do it.

 

[Laralyn]

well LW is the best option for champs hands down... There's no high ranked 1h user champ on Exca and that says something...the only 1h user was Fest and he respeced LW... why? not cuz LW sucked...end of story.

 

[Glyph_mid]

Sometimes i feel silly picking a troll for a thane, i loose dex/quick for strenght. But i didnt know that back then, and i just wanted to be hard hitting.
Back when playing my thane i often met Tradolf as he was active with that char, and every thane in midgard feared Tradolf as he was hard hitting and fought very well, many also lost to him and few could tell of the tales that they actually beat him.
Havent fought him since, i sincerely do not feel like meeting him with that str/con buff off his currently working, because i would never stand a chance, as he outdamaged be before already because of the LW lines damage is pretty compotent.
Tradolf "luckily" stopped playing trying to level his nightshade, and this other profile champion steps up, called malevolencia (almost got it right i think), the first luri champion ive seen and in the start i could 2-hit her.
Then after her own statement: "learned to play her class", she suddenly wooped me hard. And with lurikeens to be one of the races in game with fewest points in strength to start with, she now hits harder than me. She debuffs all my strength away and with that she is suddenly far supirior in strength, constitution and she got her LW and then she wipes me before i ever see what happened.
That was before the buff.
Have met her only once after she got the str/con buff, but luckily i had 2 other tanks to help me. I was hitting her for 220 (after debuff) and she hit me right back for 350^ish.

Anyways, i know a ramble, but i find this str/con the poorest solution ever, now that they gave champs str/con buff, then thanes should have dex/quick, just to make it somewhat even.

Ok, thanes are a poor tank examble, but once they actually rocked abit

 

[old.Kian]

Originally posted by Cernos

Heroes are meant to be the pure tank of Hib, which means they should hit the hardest (along with BMs who give up scale armour for damage)

LW/Spear Heroes definitely hit harder than BMs... about a third of a level 50 BM's base damage comes from his offhand weapon, which doesn't get style bonuses applied to it, and our frontloaded damage with weapons is lower because of faster weapons. Flurry makes up for that on one target per fight, but in a short RvR melee the hero's going to output more damage. The BM's real edge comes from using parry and evade reactionary styles, which are hard to deliver in RvR but rewarding when you do.

Which brings us back to the original topic: pierce/shield luri champs. Less damage output than LW in RvR, but you get slam (champs don't really have the points available to make a hybrid with decent parry) and a lot of survivability. I think blades would be better at higher levels though, as your Str raises faster than Dex and gets self-buffed. Maybe use your level 20 respec to switch pierce to blades. The real attraction of pierce is the Diamondback style, which lets you stun off an evade - but champs only have Evade I, any luri champs want to comment on how often it kicks in?

 

[StormriderX]

My luri champ evades every now and then but certainly no where near enough to rely on him getting a diamond back off. If I was to respec away from lw I'd prefer s/s rather than p/s as the styles in blades chain are more board friendly (2 three part block chains) however you give up bonus dam against chain for that ^^