Help Photography, the law and a terrorist

[old.user4556]

So tonight it was a clear and cold here in the land of skirts, so I decided I'd try my hand at some night photography up at Grangemouth oil refinery as it can make good night shots with it's cooling towers, lighting and towers with flames on the top.

Since it spans such a large site; public roads go through it, so I took my camera and lenses and parked in a bus stop. Within minutes, some bloke (who came across as an NCP car park attendent) parked right infront of me and asked me what I was doing, who I was, what was my name etc (whilst radioing into his base and advising of the situation). He then advised me it was forbidden to take pictures of the site due to the risk of terrorism and that this site was considered a high terrorist attack risk (when it has public roads going through the fucking place). He then advised me that the police would also need to interview me which could either be right now, or they could do a home visit. I opted for the home visit, packed up my camera and fucked off.

Ok, so what the fuck now? I didn't see any "photography forbidden" signs but is this just common photograhpy sense and i'm naíve as a newbie at it? Was this bloke actually having a laugh? (didn't sound like it).

 

[Edmond]

sounds like a cock in a uniform with a power fixation, you probably wont hear a thing, just trying to scare you

Very cool pic though

 

[SilverHood]

This happens a lot these days. It's not against the law, but the police can and will confiscate your camera equipment.

 

[old.user4556]

This happens a lot these days. It's not against the law, but the police can and will confiscate your camera equipment.

I've just done some research on the law and you're wrong:

Anti Terrorism measures
With the increasing paranoia over security and terrorism, photographers being have been increasingly challenged by police when taking photographs of potentially sensitive subjects like power stations, refineries, bridges and ports.

Photographers taking innocent photos of such places may find themselves being questioned about the nature of the business and the purpose of their photos, with the police citing the Official Secrets Act 1911 (that's pushing it) or the handy catch-all of The Terrorism Act 2000 (Section 44 has been external link erroneously used several times by PCSOs to take details of photographers deemed to be acting 'suspiciously').
external link Section 44 information

Photographers rights and the law
Unless you've crawled into a nuclear bunker and have been caught red handed taking photos of things marked 'TOP SECRET' it's unlikely that you've actually broken any laws.

However, if you're snapping in an area that could be deemed sensitive, it's generally wisest to calmly answer their questions and put up with them rummaging through your camera bag - but remember they have no right to seize your equipment or demand that memory cards are deleted/confiscated.

 

[chipper]

i think its being a bit naieve on your part m8. In todays climate its to be expected in sensitive areas like this, true you are only taking photos for fun, but remember someone could be taking them for more insidious purposes.

i think the best thing u can do is just put up with it youve done nothing wrong so you have nothing to fear the guard is just doing his job one day that might mean he saves 100's of lives

great pic btw

 

[DaGaffer]

i think its being a bit naieve on your part m8. In todays climate its to be expected in sensitive areas like this, true you are only taking photos for fun, but remember someone could be taking them for more insidious purposes.

i think the best thing u can do is just put up with it youve done nothing wrong so you have nothing to fear the guard is just doing his job one day that might mean he saves 100's of lives

great pic btw

"Today's climate". Load of bollocks. Climate of fear that encourages jobsworth wankers to exceed their bounds. Basically tell him to call the cops or fuck off. We have to stand up to these people.

And yes, very nice photo.

 

[Cadelin]

This kind of thing seems to happen alot

 

[Mabs]

"Today's climate". Load of bollocks. Climate of fear that encourages jobsworth wankers to exceed their bounds. Basically tell him to call the cops or fuck off. We have to stand up to these people.

And yes, very nice photo.

well 10 years ago as long as they didnt say "im only taking photos" in an irish accent they were ok. *

and absolutely NOONE wants something getting blown up on their watch, so yeah, it IS "todays climate".


and the blog about the kiddies is the same thing, its so SO pathetic, and yet has become a part of life. parents need their heads checking, then the PC brigade, and the coppers need to prioritise their shit tbh.



*may be a slight exaggeration

 

[old.user4556]

PS That's not my photo, just an example of Grangemouth and what I was trying to acheive.

 

[Wij]

Just when did we elect Mao ? I don't recall voting for this toss :/

 

[Mabs]

Just when did we elect Mao ? I don't recall voting for this toss :/

draw the line between the Franklin quote, and what you consider one persons life is worth ?

there is no easy way out of this, but err on the side of caution or not ?

 

[Ch3tan]

Yes there is an easy way out.

G, did you even ask the bloke who he was? What authority he had?

Mabs, you accept to much. We are being encouraged to be big brothers eyes and it is getting ridiculous.

 

[Talivar]

If that same guard had failed to ask someone the same question and that person had gone on to be a terroist and blew the place up killing 100s and maybe even ppl you know, you would all probally saying what an idiot he was for not doing his job.

 

[DaGaffer]

If that same guard had failed to ask someone the same question and that person had gone on to be a terroist and blew the place up killing 100s and maybe even ppl you know, you would all probally saying what an idiot he was for not doing his job.

Oh come off it. You can get detailed photos off Google! This has nothing to do with security and everything to do with paranoia about being seen to do something. You've actually hit the nail on the head in a way, its more about arse covering than anything useful. Its also why the police get arsey about photographing them when its OK for them to photograph you.

 

[old.user4556]

G, did you even ask the bloke who he was? What authority he had?

Chet, nah; I figuered that the questions he asked were non-invasive enough that I should just go along with it. If he has pressed for more things other than my name, what I was doing and registration plate then I would have resisted.

I was only pissing around with the camera so wasn't worth a confrontation.

 

[old.user4556]

You can get detailed photos off Google!

Indeed, even down to the bus stop I was parked in!

http://www.multimap.com/s/dFiCJtDq

 

[Chilly]

Terrorism is such BS. More people die to ninja fork attacks in this country than to "terrorism". Just think how much better this place would be if we spent the money that we allocated to CT measures over the last 7-8 years on the NHS or schools instead? Man I'd like to live in that country.

In terms of cost/benfit for our CT activities it's probably one of the least efficient bits of our public services, it's a fucking joke and a disgrace.

Of course getting blown up is bad, but the reality is that it's fucking rare so worrying about it is like worrying about getting run over by an escaped rhino from London Zoo in Manchester. Wake the fuck up.

 

[Dukat]

Its funny how when my place of work phoned the police when we had a maniac outside threatening to burn the place down, we got told (in so many words) to lock the doors because they couldnt spare anyone to come, they still have time to interview every random person who takes a photograph.

Perhaps my boss should've told them it was a terrorist?

 

[Dukat]

Terrorism is such BS. More people die to ninja fork attacks in this country than to "terrorism". Just think how much better this place would be if we spent the money that we allocated to CT measures over the last 7-8 years on the NHS or schools instead? Man I'd like to live in that country.

In terms of cost/benfit for our CT activities it's probably one of the least efficient bits of our public services, it's a fucking joke and a disgrace.

Of course getting blown up is bad, but the reality is that it's fucking rare so worrying about it is like worrying about getting run over by an escaped rhino from London Zoo in Manchester. Wake the fuck up.

I agree in a way Chilly but how do we know that the money being spent on "CT" stuff isnt doing its job? Getting blow'd up could be a far more common event if it was all spent on the nhs instead ?

I agree with you in a way, but I cant help wondering though

 

[Mabs]

Yes there is an easy way out.

G, did you even ask the bloke who he was? What authority he had?

Mabs, you accept to much. We are being encouraged to be big brothers eyes and it is getting ridiculous.

yeah maybe so, but it cuts both ways, so many people using the "waa waa not fair, terrorism isnt shit i want my privacy back" as a first line of defence against anything these days without, i fear, even reading the things in question


and a thought occurs

if he has said "look, sorry mate, you arent supposed to be here, could you pack up and move on or were both going to get it in the neck" would it have been less annoying
ergo:
is it WHAT he said, or the WAY he said it that annoyed you so much ?

 

[Mabs]

Terrorism is such BS. More people die to ninja fork attacks in this country than to "terrorism". Just think how much better this place would be if we spent the money that we allocated to CT measures over the last 7-8 years on the NHS or schools instead? Man I'd like to live in that country.

In terms of cost/benfit for our CT activities it's probably one of the least efficient bits of our public services, it's a fucking joke and a disgrace.

Of course getting blown up is bad, but the reality is that it's fucking rare so worrying about it is like worrying about getting run over by an escaped rhino from London Zoo in Manchester. Wake the fuck up.

frankly , i find that offensive

wake up, read the history of the world

stop being so fucking disrespectful to a lot of peoples hard work, and the dead

 

[Mabs]

and i feel i should add, in case people think im just a daily mail reader or something;
i was living in hong kong when it was handed over, and i spent 2 ish years living in Iraq in the 1980s, so i do know what im talking about when i say we really arent that bad over here

 

[Cadelin]

frankly , i find that offensive

wake up, read the history of the world

stop being so fucking disrespectful to a lot of peoples hard work, and the dead

Actually history would indicate that you cannot stop:
1) Individual random nutters - because they are so random an unexpected its almost impossible to prevent.
2) A popular resistances - you would have to kill the entire population to prevent it. The only way to stop it is to make the terrorist cause no longer popular.

The chance of people dying to a terrorist attack is tiny and nowadays we don't even have to look for them after the attack because they have blown themselves up.

 

[Mabs]

Actually history would indicate that you cannot stop:
1) Individual random nutters - because they are so random an unexpected its almost impossible to prevent.
2) A popular resistances - you would have to kill the entire population to prevent it. The only way to stop it is to make the terrorist cause no longer popular.

The chance of people dying to a terrorist attack is tiny and nowadays we don't even have to look for them after the attack because they have blown themselves up.

not entirely true
most people want to survive whatever it is that they are doing, so if you put enough police men in the area, or whatever, they tend to be scared off (IRA level terrorists). someone with a bomb under his coat is almost impossible to stop unless you get to him before, because once hes wearing it, if he doesnt get to his tube station or whatever, he will still happily take out half the street cos its got lots of infidels on it anyway.

they cant reason with them so you have to get them early, which requires intelligence... wonder where that comes from

they are a collective of "individual random nutters" as you so aptly put it

 

[old.user4556]

On a tangent, but related note, when I was returning from Grangemouth last night there were cars racing each other up the M9 motorway in the locus of Grangemouth / Falkirk. I was coming up the sliproad when a Leon Cupra R and two Imprezas must have been doing over 100 raced past me and overtook each other on the tiger stripes onto the motorway. Then, a young ned in a Fiesta tried to cut me up on Lathallan roundabout (large-ish roundabout / interchange).

Turns out the night before someone died in exactly the same area.

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Road accidents leave three dead

 

[Cadelin]

not entirely true
most people want to survive whatever it is that they are doing, so if you put enough police men in the area, or whatever, they tend to be scared off (IRA level terrorists). someone with a bomb under his coat is almost impossible to stop unless you get to him before, because once hes wearing it, if he doesnt get to his tube station or whatever, he will still happily take out half the street cos its got lots of infidels on it anyway.

they cant reason with them so you have to get them early, which requires intelligence... wonder where that comes from

The police didn't stop the IRA attacks and they haven't stopped the attacks now. The only difference now is that we have slightly fewer liberties. The threat of a terrorist attack is tiny.

 

[Dukat]

Mabs seems to know far too much about all this, the only obvious explanation is that he's osama bin laden !

QUICK SECRET FBI FH USERS! ITS MABS! GO GET HIM!!

 

[Scouse]

I usually stay well away from threads like these because they make my piss boil. Started reading and came across Chippers post.

i think its being a bit naieve on your part m8. In todays climate its to be expected in sensitive areas like this, true you are only taking photos for fun, but remember someone could be taking them for more insidious purposes.

i think the best thing u can do is just put up with it youve done nothing wrong so you have nothing to fear the guard is just doing his job one day that might mean he saves 100's of lives

This opinion is so far retarded I don't even want to start on why.

Perhaps I'd better not read any further. I can't be doing with any more posts from people who don't understand what an erosion of civil liberties means

 

[Kryten]

It crap, really is. It will get to the point where you can't take photographs of anyone but yourself due to suspected terrorism or paedophilia. In a few years time when I'm taking my lad to the big nearby park (Wicksteed Park in Kettering no doubt) I will be taking as many pictures as my memory card allows, and any jumped up official trying to suggest anything otherwise will soon be put right. It'd probably land me in trouble but that's the sort of person I am - I'm an advocate of common sense and hope some of it remains.





On a slightly interesting note, what would these officials do when the Google Van pulls up at the same bus stop with a myriad of cameras and other types of surveillance kit on top?

 

[chipper]

I usually stay well away from threads like these because they make my piss boil. Started reading and came across Chippers post.



This opinion is so far retarded I don't even want to start on why.

Perhaps I'd better not read any further. I can't be doing with any more posts from people who don't understand what an erosion of civil liberties means

would it still be retarded if a plane piloted by terrorists crashed into it? or a suicide bomber gets through check points to blow up a large tank??

jesus christ we arent talking about your local bloody park or tesco's, we are on about something that is off limits to the public anyway. its not like they threw you against the bonnet of your car and strip searched you is it?

if the erosion of civil liberties, and lets be clear on this means answering a few questions keeps this country safe then so be it. all this bull shit about oh theres no risk and the current climate etc, fuks sake open your eyes, they rarely happen because our intelligence services stop them god knows how many attacks have been halted that we dont know about? incase you didnt know we are not a popular nation.

this is what is wrong with this country ppl get there pissin backs up over something so trivial it shouldnt even be an issue, jesus id be happy to know someone took the time to take an interest in the safety of their workplace.

but hey this is just my retarded oppinion right well frankly m8 yours is just as retarded in my eyes.