Philosophical pondering

Naetha

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,564
I’ve been thinking about stuff. This is usually a bad thing.

After the terrible Descartes joke, I was thinking about what Descartes actually said about philosophy. It is briefly summarised here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descartes#Philosophical_work

Just got me pondering life, the universe and everything. Are our physical selves and the world around us figments of our own imaginations? Did we come into being a split second ago with ready formed memories? Are we figments of someone else’s imagination?

Who and what is “me”? Am I a symptom of electrical impulses passing through my brain? How much of what I consider to be “me” exists without my physical self? Do I have a soul? If I believe I do have a soul, then how does it exist? Was it created? If so, what was it created by?

It fucks your head up thinking about stuff like that, but I would like to hear other peoples’ opinions on life, existence and the universe.
 

Calaen

I am a massive cock who isn't firing atm!
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,538
While I do consider myself a very deep and sometimes emotional. I think that I am here on this planet so I might aswell just do what ever I can and enjoy myself.

I believe in things that I can see and take most things I hear with a pinch of salt unless I myself have experienced it. Souls/Spirits Ghosts?

While many will laugh I cant see no reason why they do not exist. To much has happened on this thing we call a planet to completely write it off.

I know this might sound abit lame, but I really wish everyone could just get along :-( I can understand if you have a grievance with someone which could lead to bad feeling, but there is way to much anger and aggression shown to absolute strangers, just because people can get away with it.

Anyway I dont even know if I have answered your question but these are my thoughts and stuff :)

All in all I am very laid back but I do take myself seriously, I will stand up for something I believe is right. If there is a Heaven I might aswell be there, Because sometimes this place we live could not be any worse than Hell.
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
my oppinion is everything we sense/know etc is only made possible due to the impulses within our brain. not being a phillosopher i cant really explain it too well. everything we know is just the result of electric impulses.

ive always held the idea what you do sense is totally unique to your self. what i see as yellow, you could see as some colour i didnt even know existed or have never seen. what we see we just accept because its always been like that. and when we describe things we are using terms that are common to everyone but what you sensed, i believe, will be completley different to the other person.

your world could be full of crazy magical colours, only you know your self what you can see.

i regularly have these conversations with my best friend when i get the rare chance to see him. he seems to be the only one capable of forming a decent argument out of everyone i know.
 

Marc

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
11,094
My philosphy is simple. Work hard, play harder.
 

Jeremiah

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
1,131
I hold to Descartes notion of "I think, therefore I am". I feel its important to believe that we arent just mere organic beings, evolved, devolved or occuring by natural chance. Otherwise the question of "Whats the meaning of life" really has no value since life in itself would have no value - other than what value it holds to us - uh, if that makes sense :)

I also agree with some of the views already expressed: That what we experience can be completley different from another person sharing the exact same moment. Its a great thing that we are all different - we get to experience things for ourselves, rather than just be told "Its always going to be this way, dont bother with it".

I also think that life is a gift that we shouldnt waste away through arguing, holding grudges, ill thought, disrespect and oppression. Life is too short, and full of far too many amazing things to bring our own view down to just ourselves. Peace is an amazing thing!

Oh and lastly I believe that we are more than the impulses and chemical imbalences in our brain. I believe there exists a human soul and spirit which we cannot explain but throughout our life we experience them influencing our decisions. We are unlike anything else on this earth, so I cant help feel that we are not "Of" this world if you know what I mean. I really believe we were created by a creator :)
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
Jeremiah said:
I believe there exists a human soul and spirit which we cannot explain but throughout our life we experience them influencing our decisions.
hmm. ive also always had the idea that life is pre determined. ive never though about could it be 'something else' which already knows and just makes you do what you need to. but ive also never agreed that there could be another 'area' where spiritual shit is. though it is something to think about.

i also disagree that we cant be here just because. ive never seen the big deal with having a reason for us to be here or a reason why im personally alive. why do you need a reason for humans to exist?
 

Calaen

I am a massive cock who isn't firing atm!
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,538
tris- said:
i also disagree that we cant be here just because. ive never seen the big deal with having a reason for us to be here or a reason why im personally alive. why do you need a reason for humans to exist?

We dont :) without us the world would be full of random wildlife where the strongest reigns supreme in their territory. Alot of people do believe we are here for some bizarre reason.
 

Naetha

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,564
Its interesting that people believe that humans have some "greater purpose" compared to other animals. What makes us different other than the fact we are more intelligent?
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
Naetha said:
Its interesting that people believe that humans have some "greater purpose" compared to other animals. What makes us different other than the fact we are more intelligent?

my only guess is some people probably feel insignificant without a purpose.

if tigers had opposable thumbs they be pwning us all.
 

noblok

Part of the furniture
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
1,371
"It is not reason which guides us in life, but custom." - David Hume

I believe this is true. Scepticism and solipsism are fairly interesting positions to think about epistemological problems, but as soon as we act, we cannot take them serious. When I boil water, I do not know it will boil at 100° (given right conditions), but I believe it will. This belief is based on custom: every time I've boiled water, it's boiled at 100°. The same thing goes for most other 'knowledge' (mathematics probably are an exception, but then again mathematics have very little to do with reality).

This, I believe, is also clearly shown in Descartes Meditations. His doubt is just a methodological doubt. He cannot seriously doubt everything, but in order to come to certain knowledge, he can't build on anything which isn't proven true. Personally I believe that doubting the existence of anything but your own mind isn't being rational, it's madness.

If I were to define my position, I would place myself in the phenomenological camp. I must admit that I haven't studied much of it yet, so forgive me if my limited knowledge of it has lead me to an incorrect interpretation of it.

Jermiah said:
I hold to Descartes notion of "I think, therefore I am". I feel its important to believe that we arent just mere organic beings, evolved, devolved or occuring by natural chance.
Descartes notion of "cogito, ergo sum" doesn't rule this out though. What it means is just that: there exists at least something thinking (une chose pensante). The "cogito ergo sum"-argument does not rule out that this thinking may be the mere result of chemical processes in our brains.
 

yaruar

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,617
I'm with Wittgenstein when he states that discussion of the metaphysical is outside of the realms of philosophy and is therefore nonsense.
 

Naetha

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,564
yaruar said:
I'm with Wittgenstein when he states that discussion of the metaphysical is outside of the realms of philosophy and is therefore nonsense.

yeah, but everyone knows Wittgenstein was a beery old swine :p
 

noblok

Part of the furniture
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
1,371
I personally like Wittgenstein II better than Wittgenstein I. (Though I still like Wittgenstein I better than the Vienna Circle :))

Also, your statement is a bit misleading, since according to Wittgenstein all philosophy is nonsense. He does make a distinction between 'useful nonsense' (philosophy which tries to show the boundaries of language, such as his own) and real nonsense though.
 

Jeremiah

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
1,131
Tris said:
i also disagree that we cant be here just because. ive never seen the big deal with having a reason for us to be here or a reason why im personally alive. why do you need a reason for humans to exist?

Its not a reason just for humans to exist, its a reason for this whole universe being here that I would look for (I have it tho!). I guess I cant just settle for the "It exists because it exists" route, when theres so many unexplained or unexplainable things in this world or universe.

Next time you accidently cut a part of your body, just tell yourself "This is nothing special" as your blood coagulates to stop the bleeding, your "T" cells locate the source of infection and fights it and your skin self-repairs it self (I hope theres no nurses here to correct me!) Things like this prompt me to think that we arent just a collection of cells, it makes me think there's intelligent design in there somewhere.

Naetha said:
Its interesting that people believe that humans have some "greater purpose" compared to other animals. What makes us different other than the fact we are more intelligent?

Just so you know - I like animals... uh, as friends, so its not like I believe we should be able to treat them how ever we want. I do believe tho, that the intelligence factor is everything, how else could we significantly differ from animals in order to distinguish them from us? I can understand your view that in a natural word, every species has the same right to be "special" as every other one. But as I've said I dont believe our world has simply just came into existance by chance, but instead it was created - therefore I dont believe we live in an existance where by every species starts off at the same point and so are entitled to the same bragging rights as being special - if you know what I mean.

Dont get me wrong, I know we have alot in common with animals mental and physical sides, but I at an outside glance I think the abilities we share are pretty amazing already (like self-healing, emotions, intelligence etc..) and then I make the further step that Humans are a step above the general excellence - thats why I think we are special and here for a reason :)

I realise that this seems all "hippy" thinking - but it is only my opinion :)

And Noblok - dont highlight my dodgy grasp of 1 semesters worth of Philosophy! Hehe.
 

noblok

Part of the furniture
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
1,371
Jeremiah said:
Just so you know - I like animals... uh, as friends, so its not like I believe we should be able to treat them how ever we want. I do believe tho, that the intelligence factor is everything, how else could we significantly differ from animals in order to distinguish them from us?
On that note: do people with the Down syndrome (and possibly babies as well) have the same moral status as animals (or even a lower one)? I do believe humans have a higher moral status than animals, but I believe it's a symbolic difference rather than being based on actual qualities.

Edit: apologies for bringing ethics into it. Didn't really think before I posted. Feel free to ignore if you consider it irrelevant :).
 

Lamp

Gold Star Holder!!
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
22,953
I tend not to think about stuff like this. I'm more concerned about putting food on the table, paying the mortgage, etc
 

Commandment

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
973
Lamp said:
I tend not to think about stuff like this. I'm more concerned about putting food on the table, paying the mortgage, etc

im with lamp on this one.. id prefer to just enjoy life rather than "just" think about it.
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
Lamp said:
I tend not to think about stuff like this. I'm more concerned about putting food on the table, paying the mortgage, etc

you realise thinking about these things would no way impare your ability to do that? ;)
 

Lamp

Gold Star Holder!!
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
22,953
tris- said:
you realise thinking about these things would no way impare your ability to do that? ;)

I guess all this philosophy stuff is neither important nor interesting to me.
 

crispy

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
2,706
Naetha said:
I’ve been thinking about stuff. This is usually a bad thing.

After the terrible Descartes joke, I was thinking about what Descartes actually said about philosophy. It is briefly summarised here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descartes#Philosophical_work

Just got me pondering life, the universe and everything. Are our physical selves and the world around us figments of our own imaginations? Did we come into being a split second ago with ready formed memories? Are we figments of someone else’s imagination?

Who and what is “me”? Am I a symptom of electrical impulses passing through my brain? How much of what I consider to be “me” exists without my physical self? Do I have a soul? If I believe I do have a soul, then how does it exist? Was it created? If so, what was it created by?

It fucks your head up thinking about stuff like that, but I would like to hear other peoples’ opinions on life, existence and the universe.

Even if it was true, it wouldnt mean anything.
 

crispy

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
2,706
You said anything :>

Particularly you quoted me and said that it mattered.

Why does that particular thing Naetha said matter?

And why does all things thats true matter?
 

Saggy

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,237
tris- said:
example:

if its true that i killed your dog, does that not have some value?
If its true that I've been healthy for 20-years and yet again my poo looked "healthy", does that really have some value?
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
crispy said:
You said anything :>

Particularly you quoted me and said that it mattered.

Why does that particular thing Naetha said matter?

And why does all things thats true matter?

well if any statment is true then there is some value to it.

its true my phone is silver. if it wasnt true it would be another colour.

its true my hair is black. now you know what colour it is.

if everything on that wikipedia page turns out to be true it will change the way everyone thinks about anything.

Saggy said:
If its true that I've been healthy for 20-years and yet again my poo looked "healthy", does that really have some value?

of course it does. if it wasnt true then wed assume it didnt look healthy. in which case your fucked in some way.
 

evzy

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
2,482
Easiest way to figure out life,love the universe and everything inbetween :

<====~~~~


End of debate tbh.
 

evzy

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
2,482
Also bear in mind everything we can see is false - matter is truly only at its correct state when not reacting with anything - including light - because whatever we can see it must be subject to light for us to see it - therefore it cannot be seen in its true state - for all we know we could really be 2 inch tall blue smurfs but because of the interaction of all our matter with light we appear as we do.

Which truly proves - Nothing is as it seems.
 

crispy

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
2,706
Well thoose things only matter now because you made me aware of them.

There are alot of truths and lies that wouldnt matter to me, at least thats what im talking about.

The basic facts of life wouldnt chance whether or not Descartes idea was true or not. Why would it matter?
 

Dillinja

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
3,056
tris- said:
my oppinion is everything we sense/know etc is only made possible due to the impulses within our brain. not being a phillosopher i cant really explain it too well. everything we know is just the result of electric impulses.

ive always held the idea what you do sense is totally unique to your self. what i see as yellow, you could see as some colour i didnt even know existed or have never seen. what we see we just accept because its always been like that. and when we describe things we are using terms that are common to everyone but what you sensed, i believe, will be completley different to the other person.

your world could be full of crazy magical colours, only you know your self what you can see.

i regularly have these conversations with my best friend when i get the rare chance to see him. he seems to be the only one capable of forming a decent argument out of everyone i know.

I used to think the same thing about the colours, but when you think about it, everyone's brain is made up of pretty much the same stuff. We think similarly to eachother, we act similarly, we all want and don't want the same things. In some ways we are like clones of eachother, I think I read that humans have over 99% identical DNA to eachother or something. So, I'm guessing that we see colours the same way too.

As for all this philosophical crap, I figured out a long time ago that I am just my brain. I'm not my body, my skin, my skeleton, or my organs. I'm just the thing inside my skull controlling everything. Everything outside that is a shell to move me around and reproduce.

The cold, terrifying truth is that we don't really know what the hell is going on, because all we see, hear, feel, touch, taste, is whatever is fed into our brain(go watch the matrix). And since our brain is locked tightly inside our skull where it cannot actually interact with the outside world at all, how do we know that it is telling us what is really going on?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom