PC Building

Kryten

Old Cow.
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Morning folks, hope everyone had a decent christmas.

Going to put forward an idea that might be rubbish, it might however not be, so I'll say it anyway.

A lot of folks on here and on a few other forums I frequent either don't have the knowhow, the time or the patience to build their own systems, leaving people with buying the likes of Medion, Mesh, Dell prebuilts etc when they're not *really* getting the system that ideally suits them - i.e. the pre defined specifications don't have some parts they'd like and they don't have the option short of buying something else on top.

Although I'm fairly central, I can't travel too far, but I'd just like to say that if anyone needs help at any time, or would just like someone to help order and build a system, I'll be happy to do so on pre-arranged weekends etc for the sake of petrol costs and a pint.

I know it's difficult to stay competitive when building your own systems compared to the costs of prebuilds, but it might give some people another choice to look at.

And of course at all times, should anyone decide to build their own system and isn't quite sure on one or two things - I'm always happy to help on here, as are a fair few other folks, at all times of the week ;) Of course, don't take this as me trying to make money or anything off the back of FH - you know me well enough, helping hand and all that :)
 

Trem

Not as old as he claims to be!
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I would be happy to help as well, all I would ask is petrol money and sister/mum pics.

I am also pretty central (Stoke).
 

gunner440

Hey Daddy Altman
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Would you be able to put my PC together while naked?

Oh and I'm allowed to take pictures.
 

Kryten

Old Cow.
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Sorry, but no.





















It's wrong.

























And you won't have a wide enough lense.
 

Trem

Not as old as he claims to be!
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I agree, you would never fit the girth of Krytens todger in a pic without a special lense.

Me on the other hand would definitely build one naked and also pay YOU for letting me do so.
 

dysfunction

FH is my second home
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Nice one Kryten...

I'm definitely thinking about building my own system at some point.
And I'm sure I would need some help...

Not sure when I am going to do this as I have no money at present :(
 

Kryten

Old Cow.
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On a more serious note, please don't actually build PC's whilst in the buff.

You only get it caught in a fan once.


/crosses legs
 

Earl

Fledgling Freddie
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Feb 17, 2005
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593
Might as well make use of this thread.

I'm thinking about playing WoW (oh dear). It runs on my Macbook although with loads of people on screen (as in a few hundred) lags horribly.

I will defiantly want to play Warhammer and presume that my Macbook with intel shared graphics won't really cut it.

I've been told its no longer cheaper to build your own pc when you can just buy from Dell or someone, is this true?
 

Kryten

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Hard to say. Dell will often be able to provide a machine for less cost than the sum of the parts.

However, the parts used are often substandard, you pay even more for the privilidge of upgrading certain parts, and you don't get the satisfaction of a successful self build. Parts in these machines are built to run exactly how they're configured - power supplies are often only just powerful enough to run what's provided, put in a bigger graphics card and they fall over. Some manufacturers hardware lock their motherboards (even if someone else like MSI or Gigabyte make them) so you can't upgrade the ram, or use faster ram. Some are even locked out from using hardware that isn't a particular brand.

If you were to shop for the same quality components to build your own systems, you'd easily cut the price by silly levels - £60-90 quality motherboards turn into £20, £100 case and PSU combinations turn into £20, £40 memory turns into £15 - its easy to see where the cuts are made.

Warranty is another difficult one - you buy from Dell (using them as an example), you have a year, unless you pay about the same amount as the system cost for an extended 3 year warranty. But then, you've got someone to shout at.
Build your own, and warranties on the parts range from 5 years to lifetime - something goes wrong and you (with or without help ;) ) diagnose correctly the issue, you can contact the supplier or manufacturer and get it replaced just as easily.

Of course with your own system, you can build it how *you* want, make it look like *you* want it to look and futureproof yourself as much as *you* want.

Sadly, building your own PC is heading the way of other household appliances, where it's often cheaper to replace the whole item than replace a single part - ovens and washing machines are a good example.
A typical, cheap £100 freestanding oven for example - a year down the line, warranty is gone and a single electric ring goes.
Depending on manufacturer, those rings often cost £60-80 on their own. Bearing in mind there's 4 of them, it makes you stop and think.

I think the biggest plus on the side of PC building is entire customisability, you're not locked down to a pre-set choice of components or upgrades laid out in front of you by the retailer.
You get what you pay for, and with the like of Packard Bell, Dell, Compaq etc, that's not a lot.
 

dysfunction

FH is my second home
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In summary, and avoiding Kryten's verbal diarrhoea, a mid priced Dell machine would be able to play WoW.

You may not be getting the best PC for your money but you obviously don't need something fantastic else you wouldn't be playing WoW.

:)
 

rynnor

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The Problem with buying pre-built PC's is that once out of warranty they can be difficult to maintain.

You dont get all the driver disks and bits and pieces that would come with seperately bought components and you may not be given the windows O/S disk depending on the manufacturer.

Plus building your own PC's will make you a man!

It depends on the individual really - if you just want a box you can use with no hassle then buy pre-built but if you do have some technical inclination go for build your own :)
 

Earl

Fledgling Freddie
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Feb 17, 2005
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593
I see. Building my own seems like a better route. What sort of price range am I looking at for a decent gaming pc? I like high resolution though I havn't played games for ages so just had laptops, hence my Hyundai ImageQuest Q17 only displays up to 1280x1024. I have no intentions of buying a new LCD right away unless there is a good bargain, however it is in the back of my mind to get one sometime down the line.

By 'decent gaming pc' I mean one that's going to keep me going for a while in the future, most importantly Warhammer, though I guess there's no minimum requirements for that, but I imagine there will be a lot of people on screen at once which my macbook really can't cope with in WoW. I don't want to run the most resource heavy game there is at full detail and very high resolution, if its going to cost a fortune and other games don't benefit from it. Plus, I have to pay my student loan back at some point :D

In terms of CPU, I see a lot of Intel Quad core processors around ebuyer. Is it worth getting one of these or will games simply use the one core and just leave the others free for background applications?

ps. I've no idea what Graphics card, what processor speed, or even what ram is considered good nowadays. My last graphics card was a 9800pro and I have no idea what cards are best nowadays
 

Kryten

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I don't really have time to give accurate prices currently, but the "boom" system at the moment (i.e. the best bang for the buck) would consist of something like:
(all prices very approximate from my memory & last time I looked)

Gigabyte P35-DS3 Motherboard (£60)
2gb RAM kit (2x1gb modules) (£44)
Intel Core2 Q6600 (Quad core, retail with heatsink/fan) (£160)
nVidia Geforce 8800GT 512mb (£160)
Antec P180/182 Case and Corsair 520w PSU (£110)
500gb HDD (Samsung, Seagate) £65
DVD RW (£18)

That would see you for a long time, items can easily be tweaked to suit budget and needs - for instance, you could knock 40 quid off the processor with a Core2Duo e6750, £80-90 quid off for an 8600 graphics card. As for games using all cores - the newer ones certainly will, Crysis, COD4 are good examples, and even the better coded older games (Doom3 engine stuff inc Quake 4). I really can't say for Warhammer, I would think this might be a bit over the top for it but it would certainly be futureproofed.

If you've a budget in mind feel free to let us know - I can knock up a vague price and an example build.
 

rynnor

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I would say this would suit your needs at present:

MESH Computers - Award Winning PCs Since 1987

You can always add more Ram and Bigger HD etc later...

Hmm - the last PC i bought was from Mesh - first one died within a week and had the usual annoyance going thru the motions with a robot reading a script before I could send it back.

One major annoyance with mesh is they dont give you the windows system disk just a system restore disk - if your computer goes wrong badly enough you'll be stuck if your outside the warranty.
 

SawTooTH

Can't get enough of FH
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Dec 22, 2003
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Im looking to replace my PC. I'll probably strip out the sound card X-Fi from my old un but want to be able to play games at full resolution on my monitor.
1920X1200.

My budgets approx £800-1000 so I think it might be possible to get this performance with the right bits. My problem is that Ive not upgraded in a while and lost sight of whats the best buy.

I was thinking of buying a pre-made from Overclockers

"Ultima OC 8800GTX" Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.40GHz @ QX6950+ 3.30GHz+ Quad Core SILENT DDR2 System

but its a tad more than I want to spend. £1115 and I want to stay inside my limit. I had read that Yo-Yo or Yo-Tech? make a reasonable system (PCFORMAT) but I dont know anyone who has bought one.

Could someone recommend system or MoBo CPU memmory / HD/ GRFX card that would play something like UT3 or COD4 well

Ta
 

Ch3tan

I aer teh win!!
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Dec 22, 2003
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It looks like you are paying extra money for them to put it together and then overclock it. Overclocking is a piece of piss on the core2duo's, and they run so well that you honestly do not have to for a long time.

Build it yourself and go for a 8800GTS instead of the more expensive GTX. Although I am not sure of the GTS performance at high resolutions.
 

Cyradix

FH is my second home
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Build it yourself and go for a 8800GTS instead of the more expensive GTX. Although I am not sure of the GTS performance at high resolutions.

I'm planning on building myself a new pc so I've been reading up on reviews...
Apparently the GTS is faster at resolutions up to 1680x1050, but at anything higher the memory bandwidth starts to be a bottleneck and the GTX is faster again...
 

SawTooTH

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I have got a fairly big LCD so thats why I considered the GTX though I know bang for buck the GTS is the card at the moment that delivers.

My main worries are which intel processor is best within that price range as there seem to be a lot of options. Also the benefits of Quad over dual core?
Is it true Id have to run Windows 64 bit for quad, and then theres the implication of getting my older games to run?
 

Kryten

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No, you don't need 64bit for Quad core - the only advantage 64bit has is the ability to use over 4gb (well, 3.2gb) of RAM, system and/or graphics combined.

With the little difference in price from the Q6600 to the better dual cores, you may as well go for the quad - it's worth the difference even in application usage.
 

angrymoon

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I really can't say for Warhammer, I would think this might be a bit over the top for it but it would certainly be futureproofed.[/quote]

I don't believe Warhammer will be specifically designed for quad like Crysis (Where each core have different roles so 4 are needed) but designed to take advantage of dual...I have a feeling it will be recommended dual core

But its still speculation until official news...but I agree that system should be able to handle it!
 

PLightstar

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Hiya,

Just looking into a new system at the moment, Using it mainly for games and to future-proof it I was thinking of getting Vista Ultimate but I've been told that I should get the 64-bit version as im gettin 4gb of ramm is this true?. Also I tend to lean towards the AMD processors and can't quite decide wether to wait for the Phenom or get the 6400 AMD x2, which do you think will be better for games?
 

TdC

Trem's hunky sex love muffin
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With the little difference in price from the Q6600 to the better dual cores, you may as well go for the quad - it's worth the difference even in application usage.

I've recently acquired a new computer built around this cpu and even at stock speeds it's faster than an australian rocket frog force fed steroids imo! I double click something, and it's just there. I don't have to wait for anything tbh!
 

Kryten

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PLightstar, even though you lean towards AMD normally (as many do), it really is cutting your nose off to spite your face. The Phenoms are outright shit so far, and I'll cut no bones about it - the only overclockable ones are the outright expensive Black edition ones and performance still isn't anywhere close to the equivelent cost Intel system. That's a situation I can only hope changes soon, for both AMD's sake and for the sake of the end user.
But if you really decide that you don't want anything Intel in your system, as many still do, I'd personally stick with the X2 until Phenoms numerable issues are sorted out. There's some cracking backbones for the Phenom available in motherboard & memory combinations but they're all held back by the processor performance and lack of options.

I'd install 64bit vista for 4gb of ram plus, but youre not losing too much by sticking with 32bit - you'll have a max usable memory of 3.2gb which still isnt slow by any means.
You should be fine with 64 compatibility wise though
 

Earl

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I don't really have time to give accurate prices currently, but the "boom" system at the moment (i.e. the best bang for the buck) would consist of something like:
(all prices very approximate from my memory & last time I looked)

Gigabyte P35-DS3 Motherboard (£60)
2gb RAM kit (2x1gb modules) (£44)
Intel Core2 Q6600 (Quad core, retail with heatsink/fan) (£160)
nVidia Geforce 8800GT 512mb (£160)
Antec P180/182 Case and Corsair 520w PSU (£110)
500gb HDD (Samsung, Seagate) £65
DVD RW (£18)

That would see you for a long time, items can easily be tweaked to suit budget and needs - for instance, you could knock 40 quid off the processor with a Core2Duo e6750, £80-90 quid off for an 8600 graphics card. As for games using all cores - the newer ones certainly will, Crysis, COD4 are good examples, and even the better coded older games (Doom3 engine stuff inc Quake 4). I really can't say for Warhammer, I would think this might be a bit over the top for it but it would certainly be futureproofed.

If you've a budget in mind feel free to let us know - I can knock up a vague price and an example build.

That sounds really good. I defiantly want it future proofed and don't mind paying more now rather than later, is SLI going way over the top?

I'd probably want a monitor with it too, as my one at home is only 17", would obviously need to be good response time for gaming, is there any point spending more on a HD one rather than normal LCD?

Is there much point spending money on 'better' ram? I don't really understand them but presumably the more expensive ones do something more :p

Last thing, just bought a TB external 400/800 firewire drive. So prob wouldnt need a huge hard drive. I remember there being 10000rpm drives, would these make a difference since I don't really care that they're tiny? As long as I have enough room to install the OS+applications
 

Kryten

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Well a few things to consider there Earl : don't worry about specifically looking for a "HD monitor" - because monitors have been able to display at or well beyond the restrictions of HD for years :D
Look at Samsung and Dell widescreens for some of the best ones for the money - I'm sure someone will be able to narrow down some decent model numbers for you.

Memory : I've just purchased myself 4gb of OCZ ram for a mere £70 from Ebuyer in 2 x 2gb sticks, always worth a look. I tend to tell people to stick with the brands like crucial, corsair etc mainly because of warranties and compatibility. OCZ and Geil are also good names and both I believe offer a decent warranty and compatibility rate. There's not much point in chosing silly expensive memory for the sake of heatsinks glued on them or low latency unless you intend on overclocking or really pushing the system beyond the stock limits.

SLI - I don't know if it's worth it. I believe SLI will go this way the same as it has done previously - i.e. will be made redundant by decent single cards. However, it will give the system a fair boost currently and will keep it performing at a decent level for a fair while to come while new technology keeps coming.
However for SLI you'd need a motherboard that supports SLI, and so far that limits you to nForce chipset boards - the best bet is a decent 680i chipset. The new 780 chipset boards offer 3 way SLI which may be overkill.

Hard drives - they're cheap enough as they are, really. The modern drives that are around 500gb from Samsung and Seagate are really good performers as they are, you'll only really start beating them into submission with RAID0 setups or rather expensive Raptors. However a common solution currently is having a single WD Raptor drive housing OS and apps and a large second drive for games and other large files.

My personal setup currently comprises a pair of WD200gb drives in RAID0 with my OS and apps, and a pair of Hitachi 400gb in RAID0 with games and videos - something similar would probably be cheaper than Raptor drives, but a bit more risky too.
 

Earl

Fledgling Freddie
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Well a few things to consider there Earl : don't worry about specifically looking for a "HD monitor" - because monitors have been able to display at or well beyond the restrictions of HD for years :D
Look at Samsung and Dell widescreens for some of the best ones for the money - I'm sure someone will be able to narrow down some decent model numbers for you.

Memory : I've just purchased myself 4gb of OCZ ram for a mere £70 from Ebuyer in 2 x 2gb sticks, always worth a look. I tend to tell people to stick with the brands like crucial, corsair etc mainly because of warranties and compatibility. OCZ and Geil are also good names and both I believe offer a decent warranty and compatibility rate. There's not much point in chosing silly expensive memory for the sake of heatsinks glued on them or low latency unless you intend on overclocking or really pushing the system beyond the stock limits.

SLI - I don't know if it's worth it. I believe SLI will go this way the same as it has done previously - i.e. will be made redundant by decent single cards. However, it will give the system a fair boost currently and will keep it performing at a decent level for a fair while to come while new technology keeps coming.
However for SLI you'd need a motherboard that supports SLI, and so far that limits you to nForce chipset boards - the best bet is a decent 680i chipset. The new 780 chipset boards offer 3 way SLI which may be overkill.

Hard drives - they're cheap enough as they are, really. The modern drives that are around 500gb from Samsung and Seagate are really good performers as they are, you'll only really start beating them into submission with RAID0 setups or rather expensive Raptors. However a common solution currently is having a single WD Raptor drive housing OS and apps and a large second drive for games and other large files.

My personal setup currently comprises a pair of WD200gb drives in RAID0 with my OS and apps, and a pair of Hitachi 400gb in RAID0 with games and videos - something similar would probably be cheaper than Raptor drives, but a bit more risky too.


Would be great if I someone could suggest some panels. I think it'd be simpler to just get one graphics card if it will suffice. Raptors ain't that expensive are they if they give better performance are they? Pretty much all my applications and games on my Mac take up less than 60gig. All my big files are on my external HD.

So I'm looking at about £600 + monitor for a good gaming machine? Sounds great :D
 

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