Pat about faith

[old.windforce]

christians for a change

www.dumpert.nl - Pat doet de christenen maar weer eens

 

[Hawkwind]

Holy Jihad his arse! What a fruit case.

 

[Raven]

Oh god this nut has reached the Netherlands now!

 

[Gorbachioo]

I just love this guy

 

[Iceforge]

He is beyond brilliant

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well, yet again another one sided, "my way good yours bad", video by the same guy.

Misusing words like religion and faith, giving them ONE meaning alone so that his points can be made sound more potent. And ofcourse violence is thrown in, just for good measure.

Everytime i see this guys videos, he keeps going on about freedom, sensibility, about "not forcing onto others"...yet here he is, ripping and dissing on everyone elses lifestyle 'cause they don't fit his little world. It's almost as ironic as Gorb.

 

[Iceforge]

Well, yet again another one sided, "my way good yours bad", video by the same guy.

Misusing words like religion and faith, giving them ONE meaning alone so that his points can be made sound more potent. And ofcourse violence is thrown in, just for good measure.

Everytime i see this guys videos, he keeps going on about freedom, sensibility, about "not forcing onto others"...yet here he is, ripping and dissing on everyone elses lifestyle 'cause they don't fit his little world. It's almost as ironic as Gorb.

I don't understand why for some reason it is expected that atheists have to be sitting silently inside their houses and can't share their views with the rest of the world, without it being "ripping" and "dissing", but yet it is fully acceptable when any religious person does the same towards atheists.

Hypocrits I say. Yeah, it might be ironic in some aspects, but as an atheist, I am glad that there is finally some that speaks out the truth about religions in general, and not only thing of Pat Condell here, but also many of the others.

But hey, as long as it is atheists you put down, it is quite alright, ain't that the political correct way still?

Give me a break

 

[Hawkwind]

But hey, as long as it is atheists you put down, it is quite alright, ain't that the political correct way still?

Unless your of ethnic decent, gay or disabled. Otherwise yes it's ok.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I don't understand why for some reason it is expected that atheists have to be sitting silently inside their houses and can't share their views with the rest of the world, without it being "ripping" and "dissing", but yet it is fully acceptable when any religious person does the same towards atheists.

Hypocrits I say. Yeah, it might be ironic in some aspects, but as an atheist, I am glad that there is finally some that speaks out the truth about religions in general, and not only thing of Pat Condell here, but also many of the others.

But hey, as long as it is atheists you put down, it is quite alright, ain't that the political correct way still?

Give me a break

Well first, i've not dissed any atheist in my life. Or any member of any religion/non-religion or even race. And no, it's not acceptable when someone disses on an atheist. As much as it's not ok for this guy, to talk down others, for being what they are. And i'm not saying "stay home and be quiet!", but there's a difference in talking about things and disrespecting others.

But this, is not the truth. This is a rambling, opinionated rambling of an atheist and as such, i'm inclined to point out that this guy is talking about nutcase christians, and that's a minority in religion.

Much like any anti-religion guy who speaks. Every religious guy is either a jihad bomber or a christian zealot. Give ME a break.

So, counter my points, sure, but don't put me in some "anti-atheist" movement or religious zealot lot. I'm simply saying, this guy what he preaches others not to be.

 

[Iceforge]

Unless your of ethnic decent, gay or disabled. Otherwise yes it's ok.

Yeah, I know, and I dont mind people who put down atheist, I just think it is ironic that some people are all up in arms when atheists attacks religion, as if there was anything wrong with attacking religion

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah, I know, and I dont mind people who put down atheist, I just think it is ironic that some people are all up in arms when atheists attacks religion, as if there was anything wrong with attacking religion

And here you were, going off the tangent when i said something "even slightly resembling bad" about atheists(which i didn't even do).

Pot, Kettle. African american.

 

[kivik]

He's just an atheist extremist. Same shit, different asshole.

 

[Iceforge]

Well first, i've not dissed any atheist in my life. Or any member of any religion/non-religion or even race. And no, it's not acceptable when someone disses on an atheist. As much as it's not ok for this guy, to talk down others, for being what they are. And i'm not saying "stay home and be quiet!", but there's a difference in talking about things and disrespecting others.

But this, is not the truth. This is a rambling, opinionated rambling of an atheist and as such, i'm inclined to point out that this guy is talking about nutcase christians, and that's a minority in religion.

Much like any anti-religion guy who speaks. Every religious guy is either a jihad bomber or a christian zealot. Give ME a break.

So, counter my points, sure, but don't put me in some "anti-atheist" movement or religious zealot lot. I'm simply saying, this guy what he preaches others not to be.

I see how this might seem like a valid point, but I can tell you that while some people don't put us down or disrespect atheist, extremely many religious people do and then play the victim card when atheists talks back.

And surely he is talking about nutcase Christians... do you feel that anyone should show the nutcases, however a small minority of Christians they may be, any respect?

And I know that not all religious people are jihad bombers or a christian zealot, I am not going to sweep out mass generalizations out there which is personally one of the few things I think Pat Condell might be doing wrong, as it sounds like that a lot of the time.

The problem being that some of those everyday Christians which I usually don't mind, get all up in arms and claim to have been attacked whenever and however we attack the fundamentalist part of their religion, just because those who are being attacked and ridiculed share the same faith as them.

If you are religious and you still accept science and don't say stupid things like "ID and Evolution are equally theories", but accept that if there is indeed a God out there, he must have used Evolution to create us, as there is evidence for evolution, then you are by all means welcome to take that position.

But if you start questioning science due to it contradicting your holy scriptures, no matter what religion you belong to and what holy scriptures it may be, then you are an idiot and deserves absolutely no respect.

This is not meant as an attack on you, Old.Tohtori, I am using "you" as to fictional persons, in case that wasn't clear.
Or rather, not fictional persons, because I see people do the above mentioned every day and not understand why they are ridiculed and laughed at for their positions.

Having a faith is one thing. Going out and being irrational is another.

And Pat Condell is by all means welcome to make movies where the mocks the Christian faith taking into consideration how many messages he gets each day for so called forgiving and Jesus praising Christians, who eagerly tell everybody that their fictional fairy tale saviour loves everybody, but then they say they are looking forward to us Atheists, and especially people like Pat Condell, burning in hell.

Extremely well shown forgiveness and love for everybody by stating that you are looking forward to the fictional idea of somebody else having eternal suffering.

Ironicly enough, as an atheist, I am severely convinced that even if they are right and I go to hell, that is far better than my real faith, which is simply stopping to exist.

Atleast in hell, I will be conscious. I might be in eternal pain, suffering and regret, but I will be conscious, which is a mighty big step up from not existing at all anymore.

So feel free to seek comfort in your religion, but don't tell me how your religious book is sacred, how I can't laugh at people taking your book litterarly and don't preach anything from your "sacred" book onto me, if you expect me to not attack your religion openly and severely

 

[Iceforge]

And here you were, going off the tangent when i said something "even slightly resembling bad" about atheists(which i didn't even do).

Pot, Kettle. African american.

Hey, if you feel it is equally bad when a priest gives ceremon(sp?) on Sundays, then I owe you an apology.

Pat Condell is not forcing his views on anybody, because you can simply choose not to go and watch his movies, just like I choose not to go to church, or the house of any religion, during the ceremon(sp?) and listen to the preaching.

EDIT: And also, if I am right now a bit over the top towards you, Old.Tohtori, please don't take it personal. Currently also involved in having to debunk hundreds of completely bollocks claims by ID-supporters and creationists at the expelled forums to avoid any unfortunate uneducated fools to be trapped into beliving the countless lies they spout, which really strains my tolerance for any religious people tremendously currently, after having to deal with such a countless number of the worst fundamentalist Christians

 

[old.Tohtori]

About your upper post:

Yes, that's rather, or should i say, almost non-dissing way of looking at things. Though you might want to tone down the "fictional fairytale" etc comments. If you want a discussion, start by not dissing a whole religion even if talking about individuals.

And i'm not even near christian, i was talkig that christians in itlsef are a minority, yet christian ways are the atheists main examples to go to.

He is talking about nutcase christians, BUT, the problem is he's talking about the whole religion as a term, whole faith, every single one believer, by the same way. He's not only disrespeting the looney ones, he's disrespecting everyone who doesn't fit his mold.

He's welcome to make movies, sure, but i'm more then welcome in correcting the ways he's making mistakes. Again, not talking about atheists, didn't know he was, you brought it up, i'm talking about this man, being very narrowminded and generalising.

Hey, if you feel it is equally bad when a priest gives ceremon(sp?) on Sundays, then I owe you an apology.

It isn't and maybe you should go sometime, because, they don't talk about you atheists there. You know, when thought about, noone talks about atheists until some atheist jumps out and screams some normal sentence like "Religion is dumb!".

I've seen more, especially on these forums, intolerant people towards religion then i have of religious people being intolerant towards atheists.

There's no thread "athesits are stupid", or "atheists should be killed", but look at this forum and see how many times atheists want religion to die.

So, the zealots, from my poin of view, are not the religious people.

EDIT: No biggie Iceforge, it's just discussing, and i can keep calm even if some can't

 

[Iceforge]

About your upper post:

Yes, that's rather, or should i say, almost non-dissing way of looking at things. Though you might want to tone down the "fictional fairytale" etc comments. If you want a discussion, start by not dissing a whole religion even if talking about individuals.

And i'm not even near christian, i was talkig that christians in itlsef are a minority, yet christian ways are the atheists main examples to go to.

He is talking about nutcase christians, BUT, the problem is he's talking about the whole religion as a term, whole faith, every single one believer, by the same way. He's not only disrespeting the looney ones, he's disrespecting everyone who doesn't fit his mold.

He's welcome to make movies, sure, but i'm more then welcome in correcting the ways he's making mistakes. Again, not talking about atheists, didn't know he was, you brought it up, i'm talking about this man, being very narrowminded and generalising.

Fair enough, you make a good point and makes a lot of my previous points look stupid. Not going to defend them, because you are actually correct. Not easy admitting to "defeat", but I don't want to be stubborn either

It isn't and maybe you should go sometime, because, they don't talk about you atheists there. You know, when thought about, noone talks about atheists until some atheist jumps out and screams some normal sentence like "Religion is dumb!".

I've seen more, especially on these forums, intolerant people towards religion then i have of religious people being intolerant towards atheists.

There's no thread "athesits are stupid", or "atheists should be killed", but look at this forum and see how many times atheists want religion to die.

So, the zealots, from my poin of view, are not the religious people.

EDIT: No biggie Iceforge, it's just discussing, and i can keep calm even if some can't

Well, one of the reasons you might not see it, is because you don't understand it.

Telling me that God is real, is just af offensive to me that telling religious people that their holy book is a fairy tale, that god is fictional and religious people are stupid.

Sorry, thats the way I feel. There might be no rational reason to be offended by it, but there is no rational reason to be offended by me saying a holy book is a fairy tale either, because we can prove that it was written over a hundred years after Jesus supposedly died, by men who never meet or knew Jesus, by men who actually don't know if Jesus was ever real, claiming he did miracles that no other from the time period thought was worth writting down things about, because apperently it wasn't really that facinating to people at that time that someone turned water into wine which we today consider a miracle if someone could do it.

Also I was forced in to be confirmed in a faith I didn't have, and yes, I know thats not the fault of every Christian in the world, but the fact being that the majority of Christians, atleast when speaking about Danish Christians, still supports this sort of force on young children to confirm a faith, no matter if they belive it or not, but because it is tradition. Do you know how violating it felt being pressured into having to go into a church and say you belived in something you don't?
Do you know how many is basicly forced into doing so every year?

Not one of all my friends who went through the same felt any different than me when we spoke about it. None of us actually belived in in the religion and all did it because of the threats of what would happen if we didn't.

My mother still changes to subject and walks away in disbelief when I tell her I am an atheist.

Yes, I know thats not your fault, but it is the Christian faiths fault, no matter how you want to twist and turn it. I know you will probarly say something about me projecting feelings towards my mom towards religion, that might be the case.
But as I see it, the only reason my mom acts like that, it because she was indoctrinated into faith.

My mom goes to church 1 time a year (christmas) and during special events (Weddings, funerals, etc)
She never prayes before a meal or before going to bed.

She is your standard example of the ordinary beliver.
She doesn't disbelive science either.

But still she did all of the things because such was her religion.

You see no reason for attacking religion?
I only see reasons to attack it.

Doesn't mean one have to replace it with another dogma, like you feel Pat Condell has or the one that Stalin had, but each year I know that thousands of young people in my country alone is being pressured into saying they belive something that their better judgement and heart tells them to reject due to the insanity of the religions claim, and just being silent would be to accept that it is alright, which I simply can't do.

Perhaps it is me who has some issues, perhaps, I don't know, but right now, thats how I feel

EDIT: Anyway, it might not make you understand or find me any more reasonable, but atleast I hope it will give you an understanding of why I personally find Pat Condell much more acceptable than any priest in any church on sundays

 

[old.Tohtori]

Not gonna quote quote all of it, just gonna psot what i got from it(it's gonna start awful, bear with me):

I think you're a prime example of intolerance, created by intolerance. I'm not saying you're intolerant of ALL religions, but you do seem to have a bit of a chip,. And who could blame you? By all definitions, i should have a chip on my shoulder 'cause i get ripped at from both christians and atheists

I do understand where you're coming from, and yes, there are many aspets about the christian religion that is a bit off. Like forced confirmation etc. Heck, i didn't get to confirm(which i wanted to do with my friends), because i wasn't part of the church. In hindsight, thanks gods for that. It's not perfect, and zealots do give it a bad name, but luckily there are people still who believe because of the belief, not because of "rules and regulations".

Now, a few things i would like to correct. You too seem to talk about "the holy book" etc, probably because christians have dissed on you most. But as said, christians are a minority really. A majority in our culture, but overall a minority. Don't judge all religious people for it, heck, if you take a religious zealot, im in the opposing end of the scale. Except for buddhists, those guys are TOO nice

And, then the thing that you might not like, and i'll try not to offend too much. Getting offended when hearing about god, is silly. It's like me saying "don't eat carrots around me! It's against my belief!". You know? Extreme comparison, but still, you should try to learn and accept that other people will talk about god, and ONLY get offended when someone says your belief is rotten.

That's one of the basing stones in my own faith. I don't attack anyone, to each their own, but i will defend myself if attacked

 

[Iceforge]

Not going to quote either, a bit pointless really right now...

my point before, which might not have been clear, is that when I say "There is no such thing as god" (my belief, Atheist is beliving there is no god), I have never meet a theist (one who do belive in God, no matter what religion) who did not get offended and say I attacked his religion, so why am I not entitled to feel the same way when he says there IS a god?´

Both are equal attacks on each others religions.

Heck, just mentioning that I am an atheist has resulted in people accussing me of attacking their religion. On imdb, there has even been a case of someone searching me out after I had mentioned it in a thread to say I offended him, without even having seen his user name before.

And yes, not all Christians get offended by it, probarly most will just shrug their shoulders and think equally degrading thoughts about me as I do about them when they say the belive in God.

And I do stuff I know is wrong. No, not like stealing or something, but I am prejudgemental, not against race or other things that people can't help, but if I speak to someone and they mention they are religious, my instant opinion of that person drops below worthy of my time. I have tried telling myself that is irrational, but I still feel that way. Only talking about first impression here by the way, once I know somebody I can put myself past that, but to me, saying you are religious as a first impression is the intelligence comparisson to the fashion sense of someone saying "Dark red and green striped clothes are the best match!" (Scientificly the most uneasy combination for the eye, which is why they choose that for Freddy Krueger in the "Nightmare on Elm Street" series, just in case you didn't know)

atheist religious people I fully understand, buddist are quite compelling, but still a dogmatic religion.

But I am non-religion and atheist, and to me thats really the only rational way to perceive the world. Some say they feel sorry for me that I cannot see the warmt of the religion and I feel sorry for them for confusing the comfort of a view with it being any more ture because it is comforting

 

[Gorbachioo]

Well, yet again another one sided, "my way good yours bad", video by the same guy.

Misusing words like religion and faith, giving them ONE meaning alone so that his points can be made sound more potent. And ofcourse violence is thrown in, just for good measure.

Everytime i see this guys videos, he keeps going on about freedom, sensibility, about "not forcing onto others"...yet here he is, ripping and dissing on everyone elses lifestyle 'cause they don't fit his little world. It's almost as ironic as Gorb.

A grown educated man who believes in viking gods. Now theres irony for you.


But once again. if you laugh at tohtori for fantasising about Thor (as im sure you do) then how is it possible that you dont laugh at other religious people?
Its the same bullshit.

 

[old.Tohtori]

A grown educated man who believes in viking gods. Now theres irony for you.

But once again. if you laugh at tohtori for fantasising about Thor (as im sure you do) then how is it possible that you dont laugh at other religious people?
Its the same bullshit.

Well, there's so many things wrong in that post that...not even gonna bother.

Though i could say, that i no way or form, is me believing i what i believe(not what you said) ironic.

You can call it stupid(personal opinion), delusional(again) or whatever you need to, to feel better about yoourself and your ways, but it's in no way ironic.

Now an atheist trying to flame a theist with the misuse of the word ironic, that's f*cking ironic.

 

[Chronictank]

Now an atheist trying to flame a theist with the misuse of the word ironic, that's f*cking ironic.

lol,
I would get involved as these debates are fun but have a thesis to write
Damn you education!

 

[Gorbachioo]

Well, there's so many things wrong in that post that...not even gonna bother.

Though i could say, that i no way or form, is me believing i what i believe(not what you said) ironic.

You can call it stupid(personal opinion), delusional(again) or whatever you need to, to feel better about yoourself and your ways, but it's in no way ironic.

Now an atheist trying to flame a theist with the misuse of the word ironic, that's f*cking ironic.

Hail the mighty Thor..!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Hail the mighty Thor..!

Like i said. You know nothing.

Ignorant, insulting, stereotyping and all in all, the only problem religious people see in atheists, is your kind.

No better then the religious zealots. Not one ounce.

 

[Iceforge]

got to add that from my atheism standpoint, beliving in old nordic mythology (don't know the real word for it, the religion with Thor, Loke, Valhalla, the Valkyries, Jætter and so forth) is by no means more stupid than beliving in Jesus.

And Gorbachioo does nothing to demonstrate himself as being more brilliant thinking than the ones he is attempting to mock, which just backfires on him basicly

 

[old.Tohtori]

got to add that from my atheism standpoint, beliving in old nordic mythology (don't know the real word for it, the religion with Thor, Loke, Valhalla, the Valkyries, Jætter and so forth) is by no means more stupid than beliving in Jesus.

Well, since someone kows how to discuss, i think i can shed a bit of light on it. Nordic Mythology(common wording), Norse religion, etc, is more, in my mind, a way of life then a worship of old gods. Sure, there's belief, but that belief isn't the main part of it. the main part is to live life the old way, with old codes of conduct if you will.

Some worth mentioning; Respect all others if given respect, don't attack but do defend your own, care for own before others but if need be, care for others etc etc. There's also some others, like fihgting being ok, but ony if both parties think it's the viable option. About family being family, even if not "technically"(a child born that is not the mans, still a son of the man who is with the woman).

I was thinking about it, and have to ask, in no derogatory way from you Iceforge; Do you think that believing there's something after life(can't be proven yet) is more "silly(or other term)" the believing there's nothing(can't be proven yet)?

 

[Chronictank]

I was thinking about it, and have to ask, in no derogatory way from you Iceforge; Do you think that believing there's something after life(can't be proven yet) is more "silly(or other term)" the believing there's nothing(can't be proven yet)?

In the words of Dane Cook
YouTube - Dane Cook Vicious Circle (clip)
[youtubevid]wts-dntnyh4[/youtubevid]

 

[Gorbachioo]

got to add that from my atheism standpoint, beliving in old nordic mythology (don't know the real word for it, the religion with Thor, Loke, Valhalla, the Valkyries, Jætter and so forth) is by no means more stupid than beliving in Jesus.

And Gorbachioo does nothing to demonstrate himself as being more brilliant thinking than the ones he is attempting to mock, which just backfires on him basicly

Ya i know.. thats kind of what i said. But is that a compliment for tohtori or an insult to christians..?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ya i know.. thats kind of what i said. But is that a compliment for tohtori or an insult to christians..?

It's a rather insult to all, but more political in it then you ever are.

The best way to say it would be "it's no different from believing in jesus", and that is something people would take with more open arms.

I don't think atheism is stupid, nor do i think any religion is stupid, 'cause at the end of the day, none of us can prove or say with definate proof, if or if not there is life after death.

The stupid ones are those, who keep judging others for their choice in life.

Discussing these things is fun, interesting and a good way to spend time, but there's ALWAYS someone who comes in and starts being, rather pedantic often, about how others are wrong and stupid.

 

[Iceforge]

About the afterlife... no, if someone claim they think that death is not the end, surely that is from a knowledge viewpoint just as viable as beliving death to be the end.

Claiming that heaven, Valhalla or some other specific place is where you go after your death is more silly through, because no only are you making the first assumption based upon no evidence, which is that there is even an afterlife, but you are also claiming that you know excatly what the afterlife consists off. For some it might be Valhalla (according to the Nordic Mythology I read, you had to die in combat to go there and get to fight and die every day in the name of glory, don't remember what happened if you didn't die in combat), yet others it will be either Heaven and Hell.

You see, one of the key points of difference between most atheists and theists is that I will willingly admit I am also agnostic. While theists often acknowledge to be agnostic in theory, when it comes to true questioning they show absolutely no sign of being agnostic.

I always try and be careful and no accidentially say "I know there is nothing after death", because that would be intellectual dishonesty. I don't know, because to know something, you have to be able to prove it objectively. Just like I can't say that I know God doesn't exist, because one can't prove a negative or disprove that which cannot be proven in the first place.
I try and make sure to formulate it as "what I think will happen"

If asked "Do you know that?" I will willingly admit that I do infact NOT know that there is no afterlife, and I do indeed not know that God doesn't exist.
I know the neither the biblical or the nordic God's exist, nor does Allah. A God can exist, but those specificly can't.
To take the easy one, the biblical God. In the bible he claims he is the Author of it, and he gives himself three traits among others.
He loves us all.
He knows all
and he is all powerfull, able to do ANYTHING.

But there is children who starve to death.
So either God does love those children and has the power give them food, but he doesn't know, which means he is not all knowing
Or He loves them and knows they are dying of starvation, but he can't help them. Then he is not all powerfull.
Or he knows about them and he is able to feed them, but he choose not to do it, then he does indeed not love them.

So if 1 of them has to be false, then God can't be like the God of the bible and hence he did not write the bible. Then there is no reason to think that the possible God is anything like the bilble's version if he does indeed exist and the Christian faith is worthless in regards to God.

Okay, sidetrailing there, but that is how you disprove the God of Abraham.

But when I ask a religious person if they KNOW that heaven exists, I have never heard one of them actually say "I don't know", they always say "Yes, I KNOW that heaven is real"
If you then ask them to prove it, they will either say they don't have to (why not?), that it can't be done(then you don't KNOW) or quote the bible(the weakest form of evidence is always eyewitness reports and a single one of those cannot constitute knowledge in ANY way).

Also, to not just reply only to what you write but also raising further points to what was not actually question, but many people does read religious scriptures and find the moral index of various religions compelling.

Some of the deep belivers of faith think that morals are not even possible without their holy scriptures guidance, which frighteningly says a lot more about them than it does about their religion, as they state that if God was not there to punish them with hell for sinning, they can't see a reason not to commit murder, rape and theft (Fundamentalist Christians specificly, I can show you quite a lot saying excatly that if you dare have your faith in humanity shaken).

But they can never account for how they judged the value of various passages of their so called holy scriptures as either good or bad, as they all cherry pick those morals they want to apply in their life.
This is because that without your religion, you still got morals. Just because you can find passages in a so called holy scripture that supports those morals that you already have, does NOT validate the religion. You don't have to belive in Nordic Mythology to belive in the VALUES of nordic mythology that you listed, just like you don't have to belive in Christian dogma's to belive that "Thou shalt not kill".

In fact, for the Christians, if the bible is indeed a moral compass for them, they should all be favouring killing children that wrong their parents (Leviticus 20:9), kill those who cheat on their lifepartners (20:10), kill the gays (20:13), kill anybody who works on Sunday (Exodus 35:2), that having slaves is a-ok (Peter 2:18) and that women should worship their husbands like their husbands worship God (Ephesians 5:22-24).

Anyone claiming to be Christian and not following those morals, also have to admit that the morals of their bible is wrong, simple as that, as it is put down clearly in the test of their scripture.

And I am sorry that I debate you Old.Tohtori and keep using Christian examples, but I never had the pleasure of debating someone on Nordic Mythology before, so I have not gone to the trouble of putting myself deeply into it, I have through, a very dear friend who shares your belief.

And don't think I am out solely to convert you, surely I personally belive that would be nice to do, but to be honest, you already sound atheistic to me, as you didn't sound like you actually belived in the God's of your religion nor the afterlife from your religion. Am I correct in assuming that you don't actually belive thunder comes from Thor swinging his hammer from his Chariot pulled by Goats during storms? And in assuming that you don't belive in God to Valhalla and fighting each and every day and feasting each and every night, if one should die in honourably in Combat?

You can be atheistic and religious, beliving that death is not the end and that there is an afterlife does not go against atheistic principles. Buddists(sp? can't put my finger on it, but it looks wrong) are a completely atheistic belief system for instance.

You can also be a theist and just get agree with morals from one or various religions, like a deism(sp?) which was the most general trait of the Founding Fathers of America, which belived that the world was initially created by a God (who initiated the Big Bang according to mordern deism) and afterwords left this world to it's own and that people would first meet again in the afterlife, iirc the deism faith correctly.

 

[Iceforge]

Ya i know.. thats kind of what i said. But is that a compliment for tohtori or an insult to christians..?

It was intended as a defense of Old.Tohtori and worded like it did, because your statement would make much sense coming from a Christian.

There are many ways to approacha debate like this, and while Old.tohtori and mine are different, they are probarly more alike than your approach, in which you just went for the insult straight away.

A difference between me and Old.Tohtori for instance, besides our viewpoint being different in the first place, would be that he thinks I shouldn't call the bible or any other "holy" books for fairy tales, I prefer not to call them holy, because that just gives belivers of those fairy tales a warm tingly sensation inside and confirms their beliefs, which is not what I want to do when I debate them

EDIT: Also, a nice break from debating it on IMDB to be debating it here, as Old.Tohtori is far more reasonable and makes his points in elegant and logical manners, rather than those on IMDB, which all cowardly flee when I debate them (all of them has done so as of now, many of them several times where they just stop replying in 1 thread and make a new one, pretending that my arguements against them had never been raised)