Parking fines and other(s) illegal?

Tom

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Whoops, I seem to have uncovered a little gem here. Apparently local authorities don't actually have a legal right to fine you without taking you to court. Any fine received through the post/parking ticket etc appears to have no basis in law, they have to put you in court.

They have to specifically repeal the BoR in the wording of their legislation and apparently none of them have.

Enjoy


You can find all the requirements for disputing parking tickets with the BoR act Here


BILL OF RIGHTS ACT [1689]
An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown

[Extract]
And thereupon the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons, pursuant to their respective letters and elections, being now assembled in a full and free representative of this nation, taking into their most serious consideration the best means for attaining the ends aforesaid, do in the first place (as their ancestors in like case have usually done) for the vindicating and asserting their ancient rights and liberties declare:
That the pretended power of suspending the laws or the execution of laws by regal authority without consent of Parliament is illegal;
That the pretended power of dispensing with laws or the execution of laws by regal authority, as it hath been assumed and exercised of late, is illegal;
That the commission for erecting the late Court of Commissioners for Ecclesiastical Causes, and all other commissions and courts of like nature, are illegal and pernicious;
That levying money for or to the use of the Crown by pretence of prerogative, without grant of Parliament, for longer time, or in other manner than the same is or shall be granted, is illegal;
That it is the right of the subjects to petition the king, and all commitments and prosecutions for such petitioning are illegal;
That the raising or keeping a standing army within the kingdom in time of peace, unless it be with consent of Parliament, is against law;
That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;
That election of members of Parliament ought to be free;
That the freedom of speech and debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament;
That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted;
That jurors ought to be duly impanelled and returned, and jurors which pass upon men in trials for high treason ought to be freeholders;
That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void;
And that for redress of all grievances, and for the amending, strengthening and preserving of the laws, Parliaments ought to be held frequently.


Proforma Letter - amend as necessary

Chief Executive [Address of Local Authority]

Dear [name],

Please find enclosed a copy of Parking Ticket [insert reference number] which I received on [date]. It was issued by [name of company issuing ticket] on behalf of [Local Authority] and is attempting to impose a 'Penalty Charge' of £XX (reduced to £XX if paid within XX days).

Upon checking the legislation, I was surprised to find that [Local Authority], or its agents, appear to be attempting to extort money from me in an unlawful manner. Please find enclosed a copy of the Bill of Rights Act 1689, enacted and formally entered into Statute following the Declaration of Rights 1689. I draw your attention to the section that I have highlighted:

"That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void".

This states that a conviction is necessary before a fine can be imposed. As stated in the 'Metric Martyrs' Judgment in the Divisional Court (18th February 2002) by Lord Justice Laws and Mr Justice Crane (I will paraphrase, but have included a copy of the judgment's relevant sections 62 and 63):

62."We should recognise a hierarchy of Acts of Parliament: as it were 'ordinary' statutes and 'constitutional statutes.' The special status of constitutional statutes follows the special status of constitutional rights. Examples are the ... Bill of Rights 1689 ... 63. Ordinary statutes may be impliedly repealed. Constitutional statutes may not…"

The Divisional Court states that the Bill of Rights is a "constitutional statue" and may not be impliedly repealed.

I also enclose a copy of the contents of the [insert contents list of relevant Act eg Road Traffic Act 1991] which, as you can see, makes no reference to repealing the Bill of Rights 1689.

Therefore, it would appear that [Local Authority] and its agents have no lawful authority to demand money for any alleged offence until or unless it has been dealt with by a Court of Law. Please accept this letter as formal notice that I require any allegations against me to be referred for trial in a proper and orderly manner, should you wish to proceed against me for the alleged offence.

Please also confirm to me in writing that you have advised the relevant officers of the Council and its agents that they are breaking the law by attempting to claim powers which are forbidden to them, and that all issuing of fines is being done only after conviction by a Court of Law.

Yours sincerely, etc

ENCLOSURES
1. Photocopy of Penalty Charge Notice
2. Copy of [contents list of relevant Act]
3. Extract of the Bill of Rights Act 1689
4. Extract of Metric Martyrs Judgment, sections 62 and 63.


"Metric Martyrs" Judgement, Divisional Court, 18 Feb 2002

[Extract]

62 Where does this leave the constitutional position which I have stated? Mr Shrimpton would say that Factortame (No 1) was wrongly decided; and since the point was not argued, there is scope, within the limits of our law of precedent, to depart from it and to hold that implied repeal may bite on the ECA as readily as upon any other statute. I think that would be a wrong turning. My reasons are these. In the present state of its maturity the common law has come to recognise that there exist rights which should properly be classified as constitutional or fundamental: see for example such cases as Simms [2000] 2 AC 115 per Lord Hoffmann at 131, Pierson v Secretary of State [1998] AC 539, Leech [1994] QB 198, Derbyshire County Council v Times Newspapers Ltd. [1993] AC 534, and Witham [1998] QB 575. And from this a further insight follows. We should recognise a hierarchy of Acts of Parliament: as it were "ordinary" statutes and "constitutional" statutes. The two categories must be distinguished on a principled basis. In my opinion a constitutional statute is one which (a) conditions the legal relationship between citizen and State in some general, overarching manner, or (b) enlarges or diminishes the scope of what we would now regard as fundamental constitutional rights. (a) and (b) are of necessity closely related: it is difficult to think of an instance of (a) that is not also an instance of (b). The special status of constitutional statutes follows the special status of constitutional rights. Examples are the Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights 1689, the Act of Union, the Reform Acts which distributed and enlarged the franchise, the HRA, the Scotland Act 1998 and the Government of Wales Act 1998. The ECA clearly belongs in this family. It incorporated the whole corpus of substantive Community rights and obligations, and gave overriding domestic effect to the judicial and administrative machinery of Community law. It may be there has never been a statute having such profound effects on so many dimensions of our daily lives. The ECA is, by force of the common law, a constitutional statute.

63 Ordinary statutes may be impliedly repealed. Constitutional statutes may not. For the repeal of a constitutional Act or the abrogation of a fundamental right to be effected by statute, the court would apply this test: is it shown that the legislature's actual – not imputed, constructive or presumed – intention was to effect the repeal or abrogation? I think the test could only be met by express words in the later statute, or by words so specific that the inference of an actual determination to effect the result contended for was irresistible. The ordinary rule of implied repeal does not satisfy this test. Accordingly, it has no application to constitutional statutes. I should add that in my judgment general words could not be supplemented, so as to effect a repeal or significant amendment to a constitutional statute, by reference to what was said in Parliament by the minister promoting the Bill pursuant to Pepper v Hart [1993] AC 593. A constitutional statute can only be repealed, or amended in a way which significantly affects its provisions touching fundamental rights or otherwise the relation between citizen and State, by unambiguous words on the face of the later statute. 64 This development of the common law regarding constitutional rights, and as I would say constitutional statutes, is highly beneficial. It gives us most of the benefits of a written constitution, in which fundamental rights are accorded special respect. But it preserves the sovereignty of the legislature and the flexibility of our uncodified constitution. It accepts the relation between legislative supremacy and fundamental rights is not fixed or brittle: rather the courts (in interpreting statutes, and now, applying the HRA) will pay more or less deference to the legislature, or other public decision-maker, according to the subject in hand. Nothing is plainer than that this benign development involves, as I have said, the recognition of the ECA as a constitutional statute.

Taken from http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=147553&f=10&h=0

So, if I ever get a parking fine, I might be popping one of those off in the post. Can't seem them taking everyone to court tbh.
 

Will

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Fails to pass the giggle test tbh. What is says to me is "parking fines cannot be applied until the Goverment makes it a criminal offence". I don't want to see people parking anywhere they want, or getting a criminal record for illegal parking.
 

mank!

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Alternatively, you could just park where you're supposed to!
 

SilverHood

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Hmm, waste tax payers money because someone parked where they weren't supposed to. Bad idea.

Or it would be, if thr parking fines didn't go into the pockets of greedy councils.

Would be interesting to see what happens if you did send if off to the council... they'd probably drag you to court anyway, seeing as their lawyers get paid whether they're doing legal work or not.
 

Will

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SilverHood said:
Or it would be, if thr parking fines didn't go into the pockets of greedy councils.
Imagine that...bad parkers subsidising my council tax. Its political correctness gone mad, I tell you.



;)
 

Tom

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Park an inch out of a bay around Manchester and you'll get fined. Stay 5 minutes longer than you're allowed and you get fined. Park slightly over double yellows - fined.

Its not even as if the level of fines are appropriate. Just another revenue raiser AFAIC.
 

Cyfr

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The 'parking where you are supposed to' is a joke. One of the reasons that a lot of businesses in my town are losing cash or closing down, is because people can nip along to asda, park RIGHT OUTSIDE the door, and have all their shopping done. Without being fined stupid amounts of money by people who purposly hide behind things and wait for people to leave their cars then go book them.

At most of the places in town where you aint supposed to park, there is no valid reason except to extort money from visiters and in turn make people hate the town center and rather go to Asda or somewhere else instead.
 

tris-

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maybe it is a revenue raiser,
but its against the law and you know it is. you know its illegal to park on a double yellow so why do it? i think its shit that you would try to take advantage of some kind of loop hole just because you wont accept you broke the law.
just as bad as the arse holes who cry when they are caught speeding.
 

Clown

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Cyfr said:
One of the reasons that a lot of businesses in my town are losing cash or closing down, is because people can nip along to asda, park RIGHT OUTSIDE the door, and have all their shopping done.
So? They bad thing about convenience is? It sounds like you just went over this in geography and wanted to spit some big words out or something.
 

Cyfr

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I don't do geography, theres nothing bad about convenience, sorry if I didn't make it clear, but I was trying to say it's a hell of a lot more convenient for people to go to ASDA, park outside the door and get their shopping rather than coming to the town, where they either can't find a parking place or can't find a parking place close, even tho there would be lots of room if they didn't book people in places where they SHOULD be allowed to park, theres no reason for them not to be able to most of the time.

It's basicly a money revenue which is giving people more and more reason to get out of the towns and go to a major supermarket like Asda or Tesco's.
 

Tom

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tris- said:
you know its illegal to park on a double yellow so why do it?

Oh, maybe because the only cash machine for 3 miles around can only be accessed by paying £1 to park your car? Or perhaps the hospital car park is full, and you're visiting your ill relative for 3 hours? Maybe you don't fancy the idea of paying FIVE WHOLE POUNDS to park in an NCP while you spend 20 minutes getting tickets from the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester?

Maybe because you want to watch that concert, but at 7pm you can't find an empty car park, so you park on a deserted road only to find you've been ticketed when you return?

Visit a few motoring forums, you'll find that by-and-large companies like Control Plus are regarding as the modern Hitler's of the road.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3692537.stm
 

rynnor

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I got a ticket this week - I wanted to go into london so drove to an underground station rather than taking the car into central london - the car park was completely full due to commuters (The car park can only hold around 80 cars and yet the stations used by thousands) and rather unhelpfully the borough council made all the roads in a half mile radius into a residents parking zone - which is great because they can charge folk to park outside their own homes and then charge any other poor sod who parks there...

This seems a bit odd when another department of the same council encourages us to use public transport...

So what will I do next time? Drive into central london and clog it up a bit - its cheaper than parking in a completely safe spot in a quiet residential road...
 

SilverHood

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Cyfr, the same problem applies in the 2 villages where my parrents live... (they're about 2 miles apart, both have the exact same problem)

Theres a NPZ (no parking zone) all around now, and the parking is so expensive that no one ever shops there anymore.... the local shops are going bust left right and center, because there's free parking at the local Tesco/M&S complex.
And if you have to pay anyway, then the main town is only 5-10 mins drive at most, and while you have to pay parking there too, atleast there's hundreds of shops, rather than 10.

It's really quite bad, since the bakery used to be my life saver in the morning... only thing that will be left is the instrument shop, the banks, the dry cleaner and Woolies.
 

nath

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rynnor said:
I got a ticket this week - I wanted to go into london so drove to an underground station rather than taking the car into central london - the car park was completely full due to commuters (The car park can only hold around 80 cars and yet the stations used by thousands) and rather unhelpfully the borough council made all the roads in a half mile radius into a residents parking zone - which is great because they can charge folk to park outside their own homes and then charge any other poor sod who parks there...

That's recently happened to our area. It got to the point where you couldn't park on your own street because of all the commuters parking there to use the station near by. As a result it was made in to a residents permit holders only - yes it means we have to pay about 50 quid a year (for people to enforce it) but that means I can actually park outside my house.
 

DaGaffer

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nath said:
That's recently happened to our area. It got to the point where you couldn't park on your own street because of all the commuters parking there to use the station near by. As a result it was made in to a residents permit holders only - yes it means we have to pay about 50 quid a year (for people to enforce it) but that means I can actually park outside my house.

Think about that. They've made you think its OK to pay them 50 quid a year to park in front of your own house. They could have set up a residents parking zone without charging residents anything, (they already have parking wardens) but no, they get extra revenue from the commuters (who they serve inadequately by not giving them enough space to meet train demand in the first place) and extra revenue from you, and make you think its a good idea. Fuckin genius.
 

tris-

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Tom said:
Oh, maybe because the only cash machine for 3 miles around can only be accessed by paying £1 to park your car? Or perhaps the hospital car park is full, and you're visiting your ill relative for 3 hours? Maybe you don't fancy the idea of paying FIVE WHOLE POUNDS to park in an NCP while you spend 20 minutes getting tickets from the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester?

oh ok if you put it like that we can say its ok when ever you break the law.

the dvd will cost me £20 in the shop, id rather break the law and pay no money by stealing it, its only fair.

if your so tight about your £1 why dont you walk? oh its not being tight, its the principle of it?
 

nath

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DaGaffer said:
Think about that. They've made you think its OK to pay them 50 quid a year to park in front of your own house. They could have set up a residents parking zone without charging residents anything, (they already have parking wardens) but no, they get extra revenue from the commuters (who they serve inadequately by not giving them enough space to meet train demand in the first place) and extra revenue from you, and make you think its a good idea. Fuckin genius.
They didn't have many wardens in our area. 50 quid a year is not a great sum of money, and I can see how it's required to get the extra wardens to patrol our area - plus admin fee's etc.
 

~Yuckfou~

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nath said:
They didn't have many wardens in our area. 50 quid a year is not a great sum of money, and I can see how it's required to get the extra wardens to patrol our area - plus admin fee's etc.

Don't you already pay council tax?
 

nath

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Well, my dad does - where does it say this should be covered by that?
 

Munkey

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so that means for 367 days a year, they pay them 13p a day, less if you include admin charges.

ITs all a bit wierd tbh
 

Tom

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Nath, your council tax pays for the local roads, and for their maintainance. Therefore for a council to ask you for £50 per year so you can park outside your home is a bit rich tbh. They may as well ask you for money if you want a pelican crossing at the end of your road, but how many people would think that fair?

And tris, laws are only respected if they're seen as just. And parking on double yellows is not a criminal offence, but stealing DVDs is. Perhaps you'll start questioning these things once you pay tax, and see how its wasted.
 

nath

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Well it was actually decided by the residents. We didn't have to have it as a permit holders only zone - however if we didn't have it there we wouldn't be able to park outside our houses because of the all the commuters parking there. So basically we paid them to make ensure our parking spaces. It's not unreasonable.
 

Cyfr

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Theres something outside the pub next door, he can fine people for parking in front of his drive on double yellows, why can't residents do that rather than paying £50 to have some warden walk round
 

WPKenny

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Parking fines and fees have got to a ridiculous level.

Tom makes a good point, it's a shame some of you can't see it. Damini's brother has had his car parked outside our house for around a year now. It's the other side of town to his house because even if he could afford the parking permit there's no where in his street to park and he'd have to join a waiting list.

You see these reality TV programs where local businesses are fined for parking outside their own shop to load/unload stock and if they take longer than 20 mins are fined. If they don't manage it in 20 mins they have to drive off and wait an hour or more before they're allowed to come back if they want to avoid a fine. How can you say anyone but the council is benefitting there?

Around Canterbury, which isn't the largest city around by far, you've had to pay for parking at night for the past few years. I dread to think what greif the traffic wardens get on a friday night when the designated driver turns up with a bunch of drunk mates he's about to drive home and finds a traffic warden writting a ticket out.

There's a council car pound opposite my office in london and I'd say 75% of the cars that come in and out are "posh" cars. BMW's, Jag's etc etc. Now there MAY be a higher portion of people who drive these sort of cars and park where the council says they're not supposed to but it looks to me like they are specifically targetting those most able and likely to pay their fine's speedily. A cheap, beat up old banger owner gets a bill for 300 quid they'll most likely not bother with the car and get another second hand one, but the "posh" owners will cough up all the dough with minimal fuss no expensive court cases.

Traffic wardens are out of control. Putting tickets on buses that have pulled over AT A BUS STOP to pick up passenegers getting tickets slapped on them, police cars getting ticketed, physically lifting cars out of the way and painting yellow lines and then ticketing the car in the space of an hour or so etc etc.

I could go on and on. I've only ever got 1 ticket personally and that was years ago when I parked in a car park I'd been using for years decided to charge for parking on a sunday without advertising anywhere but the machine itself, which of course I wouldn't have checked since I assumed nothing had changed.

Damini's been fined for being just centimetres over some yellow lines outside our old house because the next car along had parked inconsiderately.

I do know that if people parked where they liked it would be chaos but the fact is traffic wardens are paid bonuses based on the volume of tickets they issue so instead of using sensible judgement they just hand the tickets out like it's going out of fashion.

It's no surpsise that people end up seeing it as a piss-take source of revenue for the council rather than a service that's there for their own benefit.
 

nath

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Even if it's legal, people can't be bothered to deal with it everytime someone parks outside - plus by the time they have the damage is done. 50 quid a year really isn't a huge amount...

WPKenny said:
the fact is traffic wardens are paid bonuses based on the volume of tickets they issue so instead of using sensible judgement they just hand the tickets out like it's going out of fashion.

You can see the reasoning behind it - if they had no incentive to, why would they bother dealing with the agro of ticketing cars. However it is a terrible idea.
 

Tom

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Cyfr said:
Theres something outside the pub next door, he can fine people for parking in front of his drive on double yellows, why can't residents do that rather than paying £50 to have some warden walk round

Because the land outside your boundary does not belong to you. So long as they're not blocking your access, its very difficult to find against them. On the other hand, I've heard stories of people who live near schools returning to find that a parent has parked on their driveway. If somebody does that, the law is on your side.
 

Cyfr

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Ah yes, this is in front of the back entrance where they need access for all the beer etc so I guess thats why it's there, sorry :p

Nath: Being PAID to do a job is not incentive enough to do their job?? :p
 

nath

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Not when they could get away with giving no tickets - not having the threat of being beaten up - if there was no incentive to actually give them.
 

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